Here is my view. We don't need pros in every Mdot race, just like we don't need pros in every local 10K race. The local 10k or local marathon can run just fine without a pro field.

On Sunday something like 4500 athletes raced between IMLP and Whistler. I am hearing a lot of people complaining on this thread, but i would not take that as a reflection of what is really going on in the market. Sure, WTC can do many things to improve and I'm the first one to tell you where, why and provide you a "how" on the means to improvement.

Andrew, a better response to this entire realstarky pro uproar would be a roll up of the entire year's WTC prize purse for the year. My understanding is that overall prize purse is bigger than it has ever been and WTC keeps these prize purses in Tier 3 level pro events like LP or Whistler to give up and coming pros a chance to earn a living. I am not an idiot and also realize that having a pro field is part of your overall "user experience", so it is not purely charity.

You feel you need some type of a pro field at every event. To that one i say you don't. Like Marcag said, when we go to Kona or 70.3 World's I want to see a pro field, but I don't care at Syracuse, Galveston or Whistler (it was cool seeming Marino crush that bike course, but it really would not change my user experience if he or any of the pros were there or not).

It really does not matter how big WTC gets in terms of top line revenue, no one deserves any piece of it other than those in the company that puts it on and its shareholders (I come from the business world and get it). So all this complaining that WTC make a pile of revenue so pros deserve more makes no sense.

I feel you would be better served nuking the pro field from most of your "local events" that are the equivalent of every medium size city marathon in North America. They draw 10,000 racers with no professional runners ,because runners just want to do a marathon. Likewise triathletes, just want to do an Ironman.

Take your total prize money and put it in 5-7 MAJORS world wide (Kona, Frankfurt, Melbourne, Arizona, Nice, one of Tremblant/LP/Cour d'Alene, Taupo)...Also make each of these MAJORS 125 slot Kona qualifiers. Get rid of the Kona slots from minor races and just make them qualifiers for the MAJORs instead. Make the majors KQ points heavy for pros. Continue to offer some KQ points for any pros that want to race the minors for experience or podiums that they can leverage with sponsors (which is effectively the scenario today anyway) and also offer podium guys at the minors a guaranteed invite to the majors.

Basically now you have a minor league and a Major league. Real pay at the majors where the pro race is packaged up and marketed. More competition for amateurs at the majors where there is more depth of Kona slots compared to the minors. Perhaps use the age group points system (well a modified version of it...it is currently flawed in some ways) to award year end KQ slots from points accrued by non KQ performance at majors plus points accrued at minors. That way the minors offer path to Kona too, but your best shot is at a major.

In any case I personally feel that there is now plenty of pro prize money and opportunity to earn a living. You just happen to have it spread out between too many races. The competitive model in our sport (Ironman) is broken both from pro prize money allocation and amateur Kona slot allocation. You should just concentrate it and stop diluting it across so many events. That's the root of the problem. Keep many events as it gives us all many opportunities to race, but don't make them all the same in terms of prizes.

PS: To all the guys hating on Messick, this is also the same guy that offered the road to Kona to 12x finishers who are not 'fast enough'. We don't need to like everything he does, but that was one of the first things he did at the helm. As a marketing guy, i would have suggested to him to steer clear of a response on ST, but he's not exactly like your normal Fortune 500 CEO and is much more accessible. In reality, WTC is a fairly small company in terms of revenue, which just happens to have a crazy passionate customer base that feels they own the product of the company as much as the company itself. I can't think of that many companies where the customers are this strongly vested in every breath of a company's executives.

I think he's a positive dude. With deep roots in the most basic "why" of endurance sports and equally deep roots within the corporate world. I think a TRS / Babbitt competitor radio podcast could be pretty amazing. Funny, insightful and potentially constructive. //

Ya Bob could be considered the Pope of triathlon. He has been around since forever, been knee deep in every decision every made about the sport, and he has empathy for all sides that seem to be at odds here. IF he had any kind of holding back, or leaning towards because he was working for the man these past years, i never saw it, and no that he no longer works for the man, he is free to let his freak flag fly!!!


I would love to hear an interview with TRS and Bob, and bet he would love to do it.

Because if you're a new guy/ gal in the sport, you have a better chance at winning some cash, any cash, if less of the big guns show up. Especially when the purse pays only 7 or 8 deep and the lower peeps on getting a check barely make enough to cover gas money, food, and lodging. If you're the 8th place guy/ gal at the IMMT, you get (what?) $2000. Let's say you have the capability to do this once a month, which equates to $24,000 a year before taxes, or near the poverty line if you have any children. And, that's for the people who actually get paid and are good enough to get 8th place in 12 races throughout the year. And don't destroy themselves in the process.

Here's what needs explaining to me:
Why would 15 of the top pros even show up to IMMT knowing that half of them won't make a dime from their efforts?

I can't imagine being a new pro and heading out to a race that I trained my ass off for many months and years with a high probability that I won't get any money or on the outside chance that I did win something it'll barely be enough to pay my mortgage. I think the better solution for the pros is cutting the purse from several of the events, pooling the resources, paying more, to a deeper field.

Explain to me then why pros would chose Lake Placid over Tremblant knowing 12 months in advance what the price purse is. Options are there....

For a World Championship, it's not really very much money.

It's equal to 7% of the Darts World Championship, which offers ~$1.7 million as its prize purse.

It's also less than Horseshoe pitching and a bunch of other random sports with a much smaller participation market.

Of course, this is what happens when a private company is charged with 'developing' the sport.

Pretty sure this isn't a bar in LP....

https://twitter.com/...s/495008056447492096

These threads are always very interesting to observe. The peanut gallery can really criticize a company that has had phenomenal success under the current leadership. Criticize (not you specifically, but but the ST community at large) all you want, but they deliver a great product that satisfies a growing customer base better than anyone else in the industry, which is why they continue to be so successful from a business point of view.
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That check shows this guy got paid, by fans, when WTC wouldnt do it's job. It didnt require and verbal or direct interruptions and im sure had there been a sprint to the line for 7th TRS would not have handed him the check til after.

Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep.

For the record, Ray Bothelo's very nice, very excited girlfriend was right there when we handed him the check, which he gladly accepted and carried over the line. In fact, she may have been the one to physically hand it to him. She definitely was the one who got his attention.

anyone know what the last place pro at a PGA event or pro bowling event makes? Just wondering.

triathlon is a highly physically taxing sport. golf, tennis, bowling,baseball are not.

Well said! I would tend to agree, but us mere mortal AG's would be hard pressed to race a minor league race to qualify for the majors in hopes of qualifying for the championship race. Depending on the timing of races, you're talking about doing 3 Ironman's in a year (to qualify and get to Kona). That would be tough and would require a fair bit of extra $ and travel.

You, Marc and myself are on the same page with respect to cutting the prize money a variety of smaller events and pooling them and paying deeper.

The pros should unionize. They currently have no leverage. If they get organized they could bargain. Imagine an October where every pro got sick on race morning. It would take huge balls but it would certainly require a response.