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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [btmoney] [ In reply to ]
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btmoney wrote:
He didn't steal the mic from Mike Reilly...they were at a bar in LP

Pretty sure this isn't a bar in LP....

https://twitter.com/...s/495008056447492096
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [clarkoe] [ In reply to ]
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clarkoe wrote:
synthetic wrote:
cjbruin wrote:

Wah! Pros have to accumulate points to get to Kona. That’s so hard. This is basically the same as other individual sports. Tennis players don’t get into Wimbledon by winning one tournament, they need to accumulate points throughout the season to be ranked high enough. The same thing goes for golfers. With the exception of The Masters (which is an invitational tournament that is not part of the PGA Tour), players need to be ranked to get into the season-ending FedEx Championship, The US Open, etc. Some of these events have special qualifiers that are held the week before the event where they add a few players to round out the field. Would you support having an Ironman the week before Kona that granted eight slots to the qualifiers? If these athletes are going to actually be Pros, they should have to compete in more than one race and they should compete against their peers to get to the World Championships.


triathlon is a highly physically taxing sport. golf, tennis, bowling,baseball are not.


Have you ever played tennis?

I have played nearly every sport there is. Tennis has its brief bursts but no where close as taxing as triathlon.
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [waskier] [ In reply to ]
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waskier wrote:
Can't say I exactly agree with your approach. Just saw the pictures from Twitter. I seem to remember some music awards show where Taylor Swift was onstage accepting an award and Kanye West stepped on stage, took the mic and started some rant about how the award should have gone to someone else who deserved more recognition. Seems to me that is what you were doing.

I have no problem if you want to give more things to someone because you think they deserve it. Want 7th to get more? Pony up for a burrito and bottle of water at Chipotle and give them all the cash that's left. Good on ya. But jumping into someone else's stage that they've paid a lot of money and invested a lot of time to put together and taking the spotlight away? Just doesn't seem quite right.

Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep.

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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [waskier] [ In reply to ]
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Raymond didn't say anything out loud after crossing the finish line...nothing that anyone could hear anyway
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [btmoney] [ In reply to ]
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btmoney wrote:
Raymond didn't say anything out loud after crossing the finish line...nothing that anyone could hear anyway

Gonna have to do better than that. The check spoke for itself.

Now if a bunch of the really hot top finishers had streaked across the camera with all those protest hashtags painted on their bodies I might have a totally different opinion....
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [jonnyo] [ In reply to ]
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I agree. This is a problem WTC created. It's race dilution. I've been racing since 1994, before the dawn of present day IM, and have seen the development of IM since the inagural IMLP in 1999. The growth of the sport in 14 years has been impressive, but the number of additional races has done little to promote deep quality pro fields at individual races. Why would WTC expect a different result? To me. As I see more and more races added, it just seems like it's all about the money. Entry fees have more than doubled since my first IM in 2000 (LP) and it's no longer about the sense of accomplishment and shared experience. It just feels like it's about the bottom line. As races have been added, you've spread the pro field around and I'm not surprised they're going to locations that are more easily accessible and possibly less costly, although it's easy to get gouged in Placid over IM weekend. On top of that, I completely disagree with the comment that it's not terribly difficult to qualify as an age grouper. I've qualified 5 times and seen the increasing difficulty, again attributable to the number of events and limitations on the number of slots. Bottom line, while increasing the number of races is good for WTC's bottom line, it doesn't do much to promote quality pro fields or improve qualification opportunities for age groupers. The proliferation of 70.3 races is worse. If you dilute the product, I'm not sure how you expect to increase the quality. You get what goes with that business model, which includes thinner pro fields. My two cents.
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [waskier] [ In reply to ]
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waskier wrote:
btmoney wrote:
He didn't steal the mic from Mike Reilly...they were at a bar in LP


Pretty sure this isn't a bar in LP....

https://twitter.com/...s/495008056447492096

So in your mind, that moment was Mike Reilly's. He is Taylor Swift, young, white and innocent. Ray (Kanye West) and his check (Kanye's big black angry penis), stole that moment from Mike. Fascinating thought process.

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Contact me for Huub and Falco Discounts
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [TheRealStarky] [ In reply to ]
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TheRealStarky wrote:
waskier wrote:
Can't say I exactly agree with your approach. Just saw the pictures from Twitter. I seem to remember some music awards show where Taylor Swift was onstage accepting an award and Kanye West stepped on stage, took the mic and started some rant about how the award should have gone to someone else who deserved more recognition. Seems to me that is what you were doing.

I have no problem if you want to give more things to someone because you think they deserve it. Want 7th to get more? Pony up for a burrito and bottle of water at Chipotle and give them all the cash that's left. Good on ya. But jumping into someone else's stage that they've paid a lot of money and invested a lot of time to put together and taking the spotlight away? Just doesn't seem quite right.

Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep.

Couldn't agree more. Want more cash? Earn it.
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [SRtriath] [ In reply to ]
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Get used to it. Supply meeting demand is a long way off.


http://fortune.com/...hlon-private-equity/


"Messick sees room for three times as many North American races, four times as many European events and a big push in South America. Ironman is most at the saturation point in New Zealand and Australia, two key markets for the company."
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [kny] [ In reply to ]
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kny wrote:
Get used to it. Supply meeting demand is a long way off.


http://fortune.com/...hlon-private-equity/


"Messick sees room for three times as many North American races, four times as many European events and a big push in South America. Ironman is most at the saturation point in New Zealand and Australia, two key markets for the company."

They need to pay that debt down somehow right?
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [TheRealStarky] [ In reply to ]
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TheRealStarky wrote:
waskier wrote:
btmoney wrote:
He didn't steal the mic from Mike Reilly...they were at a bar in LP


Pretty sure this isn't a bar in LP....

https://twitter.com/...s/495008056447492096

So in your mind, that moment was Mike Reilly's. He is Taylor Swift, young, white and innocent. Ray (Kanye West) and his check (Kanye's big black angry penis), stole that moment from Mike. Fascinating thought process.

Dang, got the impression from your blog you were a bit brighter than this. Ok, here goes...

TV networks and big music companies = WTC
Taylor Swift = athletes participating
Kanye West = you

TV networks (WTC) pay a boatload of cash to host an event and reward the people they choose to in the way they like.
Taylor Swift (athletes) choose to attend knowing what they may, or may not, walk away with.
Kanye West (you) choose to steal the spotlight so you can express disdain toward the very organizations hosting the event and are then shocked when someone says you could have handled that better.

Stick with your shepherd. You'll do better.
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [tucktri] [ In reply to ]
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Well, what's the saying - the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results? I think it's probably fitting here.
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [waskier] [ In reply to ]
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waskier wrote:
Dang, got the impression from your blog you were a bit brighter than this. Ok, here goes...

TV networks and big music companies = WTC
Taylor Swift = athletes participating
Kanye West = you

TV networks (WTC) pay a boatload of cash to host an event and reward the people they choose to in the way they like.
Taylor Swift (athletes) choose to attend knowing what they may, or may not, walk away with.
Kanye West (you) choose to steal the spotlight so you can express disdain toward the very organizations hosting the event and are then shocked when someone says you could have handled that better.

Stick with your shepherd. You'll do better.

No athletes were upstaged by this stunt. It was a victim-less crime. There wasn't a Taylor Swift. Clever insults above, but a vapid argument. You seem aligned with the establishment. I wish you all the best with that. You're a WTC fanboy wolf. HOWL!!!!

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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [TheRealStarky] [ In reply to ]
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TRS...out of curiosity have you had a serious discourse w/Bob Babbitt or any other main-streamers? Crowie recently provided a fairly critical analysis of WTC Kona points plan.
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [JKoslov] [ In reply to ]
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I've never communicated with Bob.

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Contact me for Huub and Falco Discounts
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [TheRealStarky] [ In reply to ]
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TheRealStarky wrote:
I've never communicated with Bob.

Why do people treat Bob Babbitt like he's the Pope? Is it because he's old and goes
to bed at 8:30?

Find out what it is in life that you don't do well, then don't
do that thing.
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [pattersonpaul] [ In reply to ]
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I think he's a positive dude. With deep roots in the most basic "why" of endurance sports and equally deep roots within the corporate world. I think a TRS / Babbitt competitor radio podcast could be pretty amazing. Funny, insightful and potentially constructive.

TRS host your own race, keep on doing what you're doing and follow back!
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [TheRealStarky] [ In reply to ]
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TheRealStarky wrote:
waskier wrote:
Dang, got the impression from your blog you were a bit brighter than this. Ok, here goes...

TV networks and big music companies = WTC
Taylor Swift = athletes participating
Kanye West = you

TV networks (WTC) pay a boatload of cash to host an event and reward the people they choose to in the way they like.
Taylor Swift (athletes) choose to attend knowing what they may, or may not, walk away with.
Kanye West (you) choose to steal the spotlight so you can express disdain toward the very organizations hosting the event and are then shocked when someone says you could have handled that better.

Stick with your shepherd. You'll do better.

No athletes were upstaged by this stunt. It was a victim-less crime. There wasn't a Taylor Swift. Clever insults above, but a vapid argument. You seem aligned with the establishment. I wish you all the best with that. You're a WTC fanboy wolf. HOWL!!!!

If by establishment you mean an organization that takes quality care of the lowly age groupers like me that are footing the bill for the event, then count me in. Raced IMC Sunday and couldn't have been happier. Already signed up for next year.

Party on, Garth
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [CEOIronman] [ In reply to ]
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CEOIronman wrote:
Besides IMLP, last Sunday was IM Canada, a race with a $75k pro prize purse that paid 8 deep. We had 8 male pro finishers and 7 female pro finishers. Every pro finisher got a check. And for the women, there was no one to give the 8th place check to.

Here is my view. We don't need pros in every Mdot race, just like we don't need pros in every local 10K race. The local 10k or local marathon can run just fine without a pro field.

On Sunday something like 4500 athletes raced between IMLP and Whistler. I am hearing a lot of people complaining on this thread, but i would not take that as a reflection of what is really going on in the market. Sure, WTC can do many things to improve and I'm the first one to tell you where, why and provide you a "how" on the means to improvement.

Andrew, a better response to this entire realstarky pro uproar would be a roll up of the entire year's WTC prize purse for the year. My understanding is that overall prize purse is bigger than it has ever been and WTC keeps these prize purses in Tier 3 level pro events like LP or Whistler to give up and coming pros a chance to earn a living. I am not an idiot and also realize that having a pro field is part of your overall "user experience", so it is not purely charity.

You feel you need some type of a pro field at every event. To that one i say you don't. Like Marcag said, when we go to Kona or 70.3 World's I want to see a pro field, but I don't care at Syracuse, Galveston or Whistler (it was cool seeming Marino crush that bike course, but it really would not change my user experience if he or any of the pros were there or not).

It really does not matter how big WTC gets in terms of top line revenue, no one deserves any piece of it other than those in the company that puts it on and its shareholders (I come from the business world and get it). So all this complaining that WTC make a pile of revenue so pros deserve more makes no sense.

I feel you would be better served nuking the pro field from most of your "local events" that are the equivalent of every medium size city marathon in North America. They draw 10,000 racers with no professional runners ,because runners just want to do a marathon. Likewise triathletes, just want to do an Ironman.

Take your total prize money and put it in 5-7 MAJORS world wide (Kona, Frankfurt, Melbourne, Arizona, Nice, one of Tremblant/LP/Cour d'Alene, Taupo)...Also make each of these MAJORS 125 slot Kona qualifiers. Get rid of the Kona slots from minor races and just make them qualifiers for the MAJORs instead. Make the majors KQ points heavy for pros. Continue to offer some KQ points for any pros that want to race the minors for experience or podiums that they can leverage with sponsors (which is effectively the scenario today anyway) and also offer podium guys at the minors a guaranteed invite to the majors.

Basically now you have a minor league and a Major league. Real pay at the majors where the pro race is packaged up and marketed. More competition for amateurs at the majors where there is more depth of Kona slots compared to the minors. Perhaps use the age group points system (well a modified version of it...it is currently flawed in some ways) to award year end KQ slots from points accrued by non KQ performance at majors plus points accrued at minors. That way the minors offer path to Kona too, but your best shot is at a major.

In any case I personally feel that there is now plenty of pro prize money and opportunity to earn a living. You just happen to have it spread out between too many races. The competitive model in our sport (Ironman) is broken both from pro prize money allocation and amateur Kona slot allocation. You should just concentrate it and stop diluting it across so many events. That's the root of the problem. Keep many events as it gives us all many opportunities to race, but don't make them all the same in terms of prizes.

PS: To all the guys hating on Messick, this is also the same guy that offered the road to Kona to 12x finishers who are not 'fast enough'. We don't need to like everything he does, but that was one of the first things he did at the helm. As a marketing guy, i would have suggested to him to steer clear of a response on ST, but he's not exactly like your normal Fortune 500 CEO and is much more accessible. In reality, WTC is a fairly small company in terms of revenue, which just happens to have a crazy passionate customer base that feels they own the product of the company as much as the company itself. I can't think of that many companies where the customers are this strongly vested in every breath of a company's executives.
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [CEOIronman] [ In reply to ]
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I was the pro male in 9 th i biked the last 100 km and ran with a deep cut ( i still cant sit) trying to see if anyone dropped out from the race so I could get 8 th and pay for the trip, while part if the trip. $$$$

Andrew, since one if the women didn't get paided. Can I have her check for my medical expenses and my efforts of running 14 painful km before finding out I wasn't going to get paid and having to walk back 7 km to my hotel. You could add pink..

I think it's a bit strange to call out the number of pros racing there as a plus it used to be over 20-30 in 2007-2010 at imc.


.please don't reply I need to get back to work and off slowtwitch, I have two kids now.

Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [kny] [ In reply to ]
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I can tell you that here in NZ I know an awful lot of people who'd now far rather do Challenge Wanaka, IronMaori, and other events.

----------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Dev, I think it's a virtual guarantee that, for pros at least, WTC will go to a model where a modest number of races are the big, marquee events with big points/payday and then a substantial number of events have no points/payday. If WTC really envisions 3x races in NA, 4x in Europe, and largest growth of all in SA, they have no choice. They've already diluted the pro field and diluted the pro pot distribution, so they really have no choice unless they also envision the quantity and quality of pro talent growing at the same rate as they are growing events. AG is something else, but just the difficulty of Kona slot allocation will likely mandate something similar for AGs as well.
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [CEOIronman] [ In reply to ]
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CEOIronman wrote:
You want it back? I thought that the idea was to give it away.


Your comments provide evidence that you lack the ability to see yourself as others see you...and that is something that is needed to be an effective leader.

I have done two IM's and have the tatoo on my right ankle. I have defended the job IM does with races but in the last 10 years I have changed my feelings on your organization. My wife and I want to go volunteer to support the athletes at IM Wisconsin but I cant stomacjh the fact that I would provide your organization free labor. Through your words and deeds (and your staff) you have demonstrated your callousness towards your athletes. I don't plan to ever do any IM events in the future and I have 266 Tri finishes to my credit.

And for all those people calling for you to work through a PR person, I disagree. You don't need to spend shareholder money for someone to teach you how to talk. What you need to do is be thoughtfully honest as a CEO and communicate what you are trying to achieve and how you plan to get there and admit when you make mistakes (these comments were a mistake if you wanted to thoughtfully engage your customers on this issue).

There also seems to be a few on your payroll who lack in this area also....

You, and some of your staff, come off like a 13 year old kids when you behave this way.
Last edited by: Steve-oH!: Aug 1, 14 4:57
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [CEOIronman] [ In reply to ]
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For what it's worth, I think you're missing out on a big opportunity to engage your customers and have a discussion with them. CEO's should be constantly looking for ways to improve their products and increase their brand. You have this capability, specifically on this thread, and are doing nothing to move the conversation forward. Don't just jab and disappear. If someone brings up a problem, talk it out. Right now, you are doing nothing.


"In any moment of decision, the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing."
- Teddy Roosevelt.






Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [MarkyV] [ In reply to ]
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In general WTC do a great job in putting on high quality events.

I'm simply astounded as as to why anyone thinks WTC should pay Pro's more prize money. A few simple facts as I see them:
  1. Vast majority of WTC revenue comes from AG'ers (either through entry fees, merchandising or sponsors who want to engage with a largely affluent AG participant base). Pro's might be good hard working people but they add minimal value to an IM race.
  2. The only way Pro's are going to get more prize money is if they can show how this will increase WTC's revenue/profits. Generally this would work through the presence of Pro's attracting more sponsorship and TV viewers (however this is not the case and never will be - see point 3 below). Compare this to the superstars in Football, Golf, Tennis or any other top tier sport. Their presence increases TV viewership, paying spectators and sponsorship. Paying decent prize money, salaries etc makes sense in this scenario.
  3. Triathlon and in particular LC racing has absolutely zero interest to Joe public and hence little appeal to TV. Without TV and an interest from Joe public, Triathlon will remain a fringe sport, albeit one with a growing participant base. Can't see this ever changing, reality is that Triathlon (especially IM) is deadly dull to watch except to the most fanatical of triathlete's

WTC will grow their business through attracting more AG participants which means more entry fees, more merchandising and more sponsors who want to engage with the AG field. I think Pro's only have a small part to play in growing the WTC business. And yes this is what WTC should be doing ... growing their business just like any other "for profit" company.
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