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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [CEOIronman] [ In reply to ]
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Your races have the best execution, yet the worst reputation. Somewhere there is a real disconnect. Paying pros is only part of it. If you cant see that, you're worse off than I thought. To come on here and try to win something back in the eyes of the customers is silly and makes you and Ironman©®™ look even worse. You are the CEO, act like it.

And thats too bad about there only being 7 female pros. Im sure you took that 8th place check and donated it to a local youth charity or a women's organization right?
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [CEOIronman] [ In reply to ]
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Don't strain a shoulder patting yourself on the back there dude. Proliferation of the pro field in concert with proliferation of AG races is what has caused the problem (IM Maryland is what _most_ races should be). You created the problem and are now trying to congratulate yourself out of it and dishing the blame elsewhere. And here I thought you were smarter and more tactful than Ben.

36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
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Last edited by: MarkyV: Jul 31, 14 12:54
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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No, XTRI is just silly copy and paste
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [CEOIronman] [ In reply to ]
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look, if you are going to jump on here and pretend like you are smart 1) don't start it with such an asinine comment that we can shoot holes thru all day and 2) actually engage those of us that want to make the system better. Or are you just a puppet and PE the puppet master? Are you (or they) afraid of what will happen to half the IM half and full races if you retract a pro field from them?

36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
Garmin Glycogen Use App | Garmin Fat Use App
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [Sbernardi] [ In reply to ]
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Sbernardi wrote:
Your races have the best execution, yet the worst reputation. Somewhere there is a real disconnect. Paying pros is only part of it. If you cant see that, you're worse off than I thought. To come on here and try to win something back in the eyes of the customers is silly and makes you and Ironman©®™ look even worse. You are the CEO, act like it.

And thats too bad about there only being 7 female pros. Im sure you took that 8th place check and donated it to a local youth charity or a women's organization right?

I sure do not see all WTC races having the worst reputation. Of all the races I have ever done, the only one that exceeded what I experienced at IMLT last year was the ITU world championships. This is why I am going back.
And we sometimes wonder why so few folks in tri businesses, pros etc post on ST. What happened to respecting each other?

.

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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [CEOIronman] [ In reply to ]
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CEOIronman wrote:
You want it back? I thought that the idea was to give it away.

I think the idea was to not have it taken & destroyed by someone who didn't earn it.


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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [Herbert] [ In reply to ]
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Herbert wrote:
No, XTRI is just silly copy and paste

I called it a media outlet, not a news reporting service with actual journalism.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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Don't worry, I've been reporting on this in french for a long time :p
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [CEOIronman] [ In reply to ]
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CEOIronman wrote:
You want it back? I thought that the idea was to give it away.

I believe he did want to give it away, but it wasn't given away, it was taken away.

_________________________________
The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [TheGupster] [ In reply to ]
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Guys, maybe I am still too new to ST, but how do you know that CEOIronman is actually Andrew? Can't anyone just create that username? lol
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [CEOIronman] [ In reply to ]
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CEOIronman wrote:
You want it back? I thought that the idea was to give it away.


You're too clever by a half.

Let me break character and explain a few things that you don't seem to be grasping. 300 of your customers contributed their hard earned money in a tremendous show of support for the struggling professional triathlete. Thousands more from all over the world used social media to voice their support. We admire, respect and appreciate the talent, hard work and dedication of these athletes and the value they add, in terms of excitement and atmosphere, to the events we choose.

Someone with the same respect for these athletes may have approached our little stunt like this: "We respect our athletes and value the input from our loyal customers. Ironman understands that there is room for improvement in developing our talented pros and we are working internally and with select members of the pro ranks toward a better way. Thank you to the donors for supporting these 7th place finishers. As an organization we recognize your support for the socioeconomic well-being of the athletes and we will consider your voice moving forward."

Instead, we got something similar to, "DON'T YOU HAVE A JOB?"

IM Canada was an outlier and it might be fair to say that Lake Placid was an outlier too. We chose that particular event to stage the stunt because Mark lives in NY. Debating one event versus the other is probably silly, so let's look at the bigger picture. According to Fortune, since the acquisition of Ironman, Providence has increased its revenue 7 fold to $150 million per year. Furthermore, according to Triathlon Business, you just borrowed $240 million in order to pay Providence a $220 million dividend. Now, it is probably close to impossible to quantify the value added by pro triathletes, but based on my personal observation of your advertising strategy, they seem very important to you. Your Kona broadcast is focused on marketing the pro athletes. More focus has been on them than the sob stories as of late.
  1. Have pro prize purses increased since the Providence acquisition? Has the increase been anywhere close to 7 fold?
  2. Regardless of the other events going on, is it morally reprehensible to pay a pro athlete roughly the equivalent of 1 (of >2500) entry fee for 6th place and NOTHING for 7th place?

You seem like an arrogant leader of an arrogant organization. The confiscation of Ray Bothelo's 7th place check by Jeff Edwards, your VP of Operations for North America, was an interesting metaphor for your approach to your customer. As a man was slumped over, having just given everything he had for over 9 hours, a volunteer (probably unpaid) helped him hold the check. They stumbled together with his support toward your executive Jeff, who snatched the check from the volunteer and bent it in half. Jeff then walked it over to a garbage can and disposed of it. One of your customers (me) who cares about the athletes (Ray Bothelo) spend $80 dollars on that check, $500 on a flight and >$500 more on prizes/merchandise and shipping for our 30 donors. That would have been an amazing keepsake for Ray to remember this weekend of legend. And Jeff, who seems to be an arrogant fucking asshole, modeled perfectly the attitude and value system of the WTC in that single act of customer disservice.


You owe Ray Bothelo and the 300 donors who care about people like Ray an apology.



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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [CEOIronman] [ In reply to ]
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Andrew,

You guys are doing a great job running WTC with all the races you've built over the past few years. Boggles my mind why pros think they are entitled to more prize money from WTC. If they want bigger payouts, go do other race series or get a job in the real world.

Nearly all age groupers don't care what pros show up - think it's been said many times here that most can't even name 10 pros.

Thanks for the great experiences. Now please go back to running your company.
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [IronLady] [ In reply to ]
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IronLady wrote:
Guys, maybe I am still too new to ST, but how do you know that CEOIronman is actually Andrew? Can't anyone just create that username? lol

I thought that too. Especially how the OP is one of the worst things an owner of a business should do to their customer base. This would be like Comcast going into Tech forums bragging about their service. If this is the CEO, I would suggest they run things through their PR person before making such elementary mistakes like this.

_________________________________
The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [Billy D] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Paying more will bring in more athletes which means a deeper field and more competitive races. This seems really basic. How is it that your executive team hasn't grasped such a simple concept?

Didn't work for Rev3.
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [TheGupster] [ In reply to ]
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TheGupster wrote:
IronLady wrote:
Guys, maybe I am still too new to ST, but how do you know that CEOIronman is actually Andrew? Can't anyone just create that username? lol


I thought that too. Especially how the OP is one of the worst things an owner of a business should do to their customer base. This would be like Comcast going into Tech forums bragging about their service. If this is the CEO, I would suggest they run things through their PR person before making such elementary mistakes like this.

This person has represented himself as Andrew for a few years (CAF thread, revamping pro prizes thread, even a let Lance race thread). He will "chum the waters" as he puts it now and then but most of his posts have been fairly straight forward. I think this is Andrew's way of calling out/having fun with TRS. He's commented on pro prizes (and their strategy) in the past if you look back.
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [TheRealStarky] [ In reply to ]
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TheRealStarky wrote:
CEOIronman wrote:
You want it back? I thought that the idea was to give it away.


You're too clever by a half.

Let me break character and explain a few things that you don't seem to be grasping. 300 of your customers contributed their hard earned money in a tremendous show of support for the struggling professional triathlete. Thousands more from all over the world used social media to voice their support. We admire, respect and appreciate the talent, hard work and dedication of these athletes and the value they add, in terms of excitement and atmosphere, to the events we choose.

Someone with the same respect for these athletes may have approached our little stunt like this: "We respect our athletes and value the input from our loyal customers. Ironman understands that there is room for improvement in developing our talented pros and we are working internally and with select members of the pro ranks toward a better way. Thank you to the donors for supporting these 7th place finishers. As an organization we recognize your support for the socioeconomic well-being of the athletes and we will consider your voice moving forward."

Instead, we got something similar to, "DON'T YOU HAVE A JOB?"

IM Canada was an outlier and it might be fair to say that Lake Placid was an outlier too. We chose that particular event to stage the stunt because Mark lives in NY. Debating one event versus the other is probably silly, so let's look at the bigger picture. According to Fortune, since the acquisition of Ironman, Providence has increased its revenue 7 fold to $150 million per year. Furthermore, according to Triathlon Business, you just borrowed $240 million in order to pay Providence a $220 million dividend. Now, it is probably close to impossible to quantify the value added by pro triathletes, but based on my personal observation of your advertising strategy, they seem very important to you. Your Kona broadcast is focused on marketing the pro athletes. More focus has been on them than the sob stories as of late.
  1. Have pro prize purses increased since the Providence acquisition? Has the increase been anywhere close to 7 fold?
  2. Regardless of the other events going on, is it morally reprehensible to pay a pro athlete roughly the equivalent of 1 (of >2500) entry fee for 6th place and NOTHING for 7th place?

You seem like an arrogant leader of an arrogant organization. The confiscation of Ray Bothelo's 7th place check by Jeff Edwards, your VP of Operations for North America, was an interesting metaphor for your approach to your customer. As a man was slumped over, having just given everything he had for over 9 hours, a volunteer (probably unpaid) helped him hold the check. They stumbled together with his support toward your executive Jeff, who snatched the check from the volunteer and bent it in half. Jeff then walked it over to a garbage can and disposed of it. One of your customers (me) who cares about the athletes (Ray Bothelo) spend $80 dollars on that check, $500 on a flight and >$500 more on prizes/merchandise and shipping for our 30 donors. That would have been an amazing keepsake for Ray to remember this weekend of legend. And Jeff, who seems to be an arrogant fucking asshole, modeled perfectly the attitude and value system of the WTC in that single act of customer disservice.


You owe Ray Bothelo and the 300 donors who care about people like Ray an apology.


+1 and put only like Sir Starks-A-Lot can. Pony up CEOIronman!

------
"Train so you have no regrets @ the finish line"
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [CEOIronman] [ In reply to ]
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Meanwhile in France, Embrunman : 118000eur ... yep, so about $177000.
There is more, but here is the grid
Difference between m and w likely because the field is a lot difference in %.

Men
1st 25000 eur
2nd 15000 eur
3rd 11000 eur
4th 9000 eur
5th 8000 eur
6th 5000 eur

Women
1st 18000 eur
2nd 11000 eur
3rd 7000 eur
4th 5000 eur
5th 3000 eur
6th 1000 eur
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [CEOIronman] [ In reply to ]
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At what point in this thread will you decide you've taken enough licks and say something like "Gotta go. I have a company to run," ignoring the fact that you started the conversation in the first place?
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [TheRealStarky] [ In reply to ]
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TheRealStarky wrote:
CEOIronman wrote:
You want it back? I thought that the idea was to give it away.


You're too clever by a half.

Let me break character and explain a few things that you don't seem to be grasping. 300 of your customers contributed their hard earned money in a tremendous show of support for the struggling professional triathlete. Thousands more from all over the world used social media to voice their support. We admire, respect and appreciate the talent, hard work and dedication of these athletes and the value they add, in terms of excitement and atmosphere, to the events we choose.

Someone with the same respect for these athletes may have approached our little stunt like this: "We respect our athletes and value the input from our loyal customers. Ironman understands that there is room for improvement in developing our talented pros and we are working internally and with select members of the pro ranks toward a better way. Thank you to the donors for supporting these 7th place finishers. As an organization we recognize your support for the socioeconomic well-being of the athletes and we will consider your voice moving forward."

Instead, we got something similar to, "DON'T YOU HAVE A JOB?"

IM Canada was an outlier and it might be fair to say that Lake Placid was an outlier too. We chose that particular event to stage the stunt because Mark lives in NY. Debating one event versus the other is probably silly, so let's look at the bigger picture. According to Fortune, since the acquisition of Ironman, Providence has increased its revenue 7 fold to $150 million per year. Furthermore, according to Triathlon Business, you just borrowed $240 million in order to pay Providence a $220 million dividend. Now, it is probably close to impossible to quantify the value added by pro triathletes, but based on my personal observation of your advertising strategy, they seem very important to you. Your Kona broadcast is focused on marketing the pro athletes. More focus has been on them than the sob stories as of late.
  1. Have pro prize purses increased since the Providence acquisition? Has the increase been anywhere close to 7 fold?
  2. Regardless of the other events going on, is it morally reprehensible to pay a pro athlete roughly the equivalent of 1 (of >2500) entry fee for 6th place and NOTHING for 7th place?

You seem like an arrogant leader of an arrogant organization. The confiscation of Ray Bothelo's 7th place check by Jeff Edwards, your VP of Operations for North America, was an interesting metaphor for your approach to your customer. As a man was slumped over, having just given everything he had for over 9 hours, a volunteer (probably unpaid) helped him hold the check. They stumbled together with his support toward your executive Jeff, who snatched the check from the volunteer and bent it in half. Jeff then walked it over to a garbage can and disposed of it. One of your customers (me) who cares about the athletes (Ray Bothelo) spend $80 dollars on that check, $500 on a flight and >$500 more on prizes/merchandise and shipping for our 30 donors. That would have been an amazing keepsake for Ray to remember this weekend of legend. And Jeff, who seems to be an arrogant fucking asshole, modeled perfectly the attitude and value system of the WTC in that single act of customer disservice.


You owe Ray Bothelo and the 300 donors who care about people like Ray an apology.

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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [TheGupster] [ In reply to ]
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I have engaged with the (alleged) "CEO of Ironman" on the Forum before and on Twitter. Assuming the one on Twitter is the "real" one, they seemed to have the identical arrogance and juvenile passive/aggressive responses to some fair questions. While it is completely possible for forum CEO to be "fake", I would say there is more than even chance he is the real one
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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I agree with you. That's why I keep racing WTC events, but I am talking about "WTC" and their reputation. Would you hold them up there as "well respected company" by the above average user?

If CEOIronman was a regular forum member and consistently contributed to the community, I would respect him. But as someone else said, this is a "michi weiss"
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [sp1ke] [ In reply to ]
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When I get home, I'll copy this thread over to Reddit and see if we can get that army on this. lol

_________________________________
The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [Herbert] [ In reply to ]
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Herbert, you are a moderator. Can you confirm that the OP is in fact Andrew Messick, the CEO of Ironman?

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Contact me for Huub and Falco Discounts
Last edited by: TheRealStarky: Jul 31, 14 13:26
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [CEOIronman] [ In reply to ]
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Hello Andrew,

Thank you for making yourself accessible on this forum. I'd like to take this opportunity to congratulate you and your staff on a fantastic venue and athlete experience at IMC. I hosted a party of 16 to watch my brother and I race. I have nothing but positive things to say about the community, the venue, the course and your employees.

I do have suggestions regarding the aid station layout.

1. Please consider adding another station between what is now station 8 and 9 on the bike. Most athletes progressed relatively slowly through that section because of the grade, at what was becoming the warmest part of the day. Athletes ran out of water during that section and I heard that BOP athletes found station 9 dry when they arrived. Water for that climb would be welcome.

2. Please consider adding a station between what is now station 2 and 3 on the run. This could be accomplished by combining stations 4/9, 5/8 or 6/7. We really didn't need separate stations for either direction of the trail just a short distance apart. But I know athletes would have benefited from water on the back side of Lost Lake.

Small stuff for a second year venue.

I will add that the pro purses seem ridiculously small. The sport would benefit from an economic model that incentivizes the best to compete.

Scott
Last edited by: GreatScott: Jul 31, 14 13:29
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Re: Meanwhile, in Canada..... [CEOIronman] [ In reply to ]
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CEOIronman wrote:
Besides IMLP, last Sunday was IM Canada, a race with a $75k pro prize purse that paid 8 deep. We had 8 male pro finishers and 7 female pro finishers. Every pro finisher got a check. And for the women, there was no one to give the 8th place check to.

Wow. Not sure you don't get it or don't care. Either way is not good. I thought the way WTC handled this whole thing from start to finish was exceptionally poor, but this hits a new low.

Suffer Well.
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