What's your real name and what races are you signed up for?

They aren't "rules". They're rules. No air-quotes. You aren't "cheating". You are cheating. again, no air-quotes.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Do the triathletes in your community know you dope?

If you truly don't give a shit...How about giving us your real name and the city you live in?

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"Good genes are not a requirement, just the obsession to beat ones brains out daily"...the Griz

Sounds more like a distorted version of reality where you've convinced yourself you're not cheating because you don't think you're gaining an advantage. The rules are clear. You either get a TUE or you don't compete, or participate, or whatever you want to call it.



I didn't say you draft, just that I see a lot of people at the back of the pack justify breaking the rules (often drafting) because they're not competitive. The rules apply to everyone.

This is false. Stop saying it.

Just because you are "BOP" - however you define that - does not mean that it does not matter that you are finishing ahead of honest athletes in your age group. The entire point of entering a race is to compete, and people train and race - at least in part - to see where they stand. So you are taking something away from every person you finish in front of.

If you do not care about competing at all, just go out and do your own triathlon without an organized race.

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

Yeah, because nobody's ever lost a nut or two testicular cancer, or injuries, or had hormone issues. *pink*

Must be nice to go through life with perfect health all the time

Nice False Equivalency attempt. 3/10.

"the difference between me and those of you who live and die by the "rules" is that i live in reality, and reality is not absolute, it's not pure black and white. i'm 57, i take medically prescribed T to improve the quality of my life. and yes, i am aware that it is on the WADA banned substance list. given that fact, i'll agree that my use would constitute "doping", in the literal sense"

Holy shit I don't know what to do with this statement!

I really don't give a shit if you agree or not. I don't give a shit if you care or not. If you take T and compete, without having a TUE, in a sanctioned race....you are doping and cheating. Any other interpretation is garbage. Any rationalization of that is garbage. Your last argument is a special kind of garbage, and a logical mismash of complete buffoonery.

At 57, you ought to know and act a hell of a lot better. Grow up and take responsibility for your actions.

Hello TriBriGuy and All,

"the difference between me and those of you who live and die by the "rules" is that i live in reality, and reality is not absolute, it's not pure black and white. i'm 57, i take medically prescribed T to improve the quality of my life. and yes, i am aware that it is on the WADA banned substance list. given that fact, i'll agree that my use would constitute "doping", in the literal sense"

I suggest ..... this is one of the reasons (among a spectrum of reasons) why we have rule enforcement ...... body fluid testing, biological passports, and so on.

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Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster

I think this is the very definition of "intellectually dishonest." My understanding of WADA may be incorrect, but I believe that T is banned because it IS a performance enhancer.

It is not banned if only used as "performance enhancing"...which is what this post suggests.

It is ALWAYS banned and anyone using it without a TUE is, by definition: cheating. If you're cool with that, fine...but at least acknowledge that it's cheating.

Am i the only one thinking this guy is a troll?

Am i the only one thinking this guy is a troll? //

The unfortunate reality that even if he is a troll, there are 100's out there that think exactly like him, and doing exactly what he is talking about. So troll or no troll(I actually believe him) the sad truth is that the anti aging doctors and drug companies have won a very big battle here in AG racing. Still remains to be seen if they win the war or not, another war on drugs???

Nope ..... me too ...... and doing an excellent job of raising the collective blood pressure I might add.

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Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster

Ditto.

Rules is rules, agreed to by the competitors. Follow them or get them changed.

My sentiments exactly. I hope everybody reads this twice.

Insulin is needed to live. I am diabetic and would die without it

Well you'd be a lot slower if you were dead, wouldn't you? Cheater! /pink

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

Wait wait wait. If I use insulin to literally stay alive, then I am doping? That’s the dumbest fucking thing I’ve ever heard. I must be taking my insulin wrong because other than keeping me alive I haven’t seen any performance enhancement from it. I suppose I would be slower if was dead.

On the off hand that I can help clarify:
1) There is no such thing as a "normal" testosterone level.
2) This means that each testosterone user gets to decide for themself what is "normal" for them.
3) It is not a "rule" if the participant gets to decide the parameters.

Let's illustrate..
"My testosterone was always much, much higher then everyone else's. I can't function with these low T problems that came on recently. "

Let's try the same argument with other rules.
"I find that I get less draft than others. So.... my doctor says I only have to give the rider in front of me 3 feet."

"I am naturally much heavier than everyone else. So...my doctor says running 10 miles for me, is like a marathon for a skinny fat athlete. So I should only have to run 10 miles."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...articles/PMC2500251/
Insulin effects on anthropometry, strength, and exercise performance
Glucose metabolism significantly increased following exogenous insulin in trained athletes. V̇O2 peak also significantly increased (Sato et al 1986).
Insulin’s anabolic actions are believed to improve performance, by increasing protein synthesis (Bonadonna et al 1993; Kimball et al 1994) and inhibiting protein catabolism and enhancing transport of selected amino acids in human skeletal muscle (Biolo et al 1995). Physiological hyperinsulinemia stimulates the activity of amino acid transport in human skeletal muscle, thereby stimulating protein synthesis (Bonadonna et al 1993).
Insulin-treated diabetics are known to have increased lean body mass versus controls (Sinha et al 1996). In addition to its role in regulating glucose metabolism, insulin increases amino acid transport into cells. Its stimulation of lipogenesis, and diminished lipolysis, is one of the reasons why bodybuilders and athletes will take rhGH in conjunction, to counteract this adverse effect, whilst optimizing protein synthesis (Sonksen 2001).
It is the inhibition of proteolysis that the athlete is interested in and the physiology of the diabetic patient has been extrapolated by the athlete to the sporting arena. Insulin administration is protein anabolic in the insulin-resistant state of chronic renal failure. It inhibits proteolysis and when administered with amino-acids, it increases net protein synthesis (Lim et al 2003).
The administration of exogenous insulin, establishes an in-vivo hyperinsulinemic clamp, increasing muscle glycogen before and in the recovery stages of strenuous exercise. This may increase power, strength, and stamina and assist in recovery from strenuous exercise.
Secondly, by inhibiting muscle protein breakdown and in conjunction with a high protein and high carbohydrate diet, insulin will have the action of increasing muscle bulk, potentially improving performance.

and yet every type 1 worldwide would gladly give up all these supposed benefits to have their pancreas working again, I assure you.

Plus that study talks about taking exogenous insulin - but it doesn't say for diabetics who don't produce any. In fact the study would probably be looking at people who produce their own insulin but are adding more insulin.

Trust me, there is no benefit when your out on a bike riding for miles in a race and your thinking what your blood sugar is, how much carbs you can take, how much to inject etc. You try sit up, stop pedalling and coast, whip out a needle and jab your thigh then put it all back away, just so you can eat something.

Or every run you have top take a running belt chocked full of some form of carbs...

Or mid swim in a 70.3, you have to tread water and take out a gel and down it in the middle of the ocean, and just hope that's enough to get you to T1

Yeh nah, ill pass on all these benfits it gives ;)

I don't doubt that for a second.



Actually, no.

"Insulin-treated diabetics are known to have increased lean body mass versus controls (Sinha et al 1996). "
"It is the inhibition of proteolysis that the athlete is interested in and the physiology of the diabetic patient has been extrapolated by the athlete to the sporting arena."




Listen, I completely understand all of that and I would never be so callous as to suggest that diabetics are dopers. My initial post in this thread was simply a question - is it possible to have an unemotional discussion on the subject so that folks that are admittedly ignorant on certain aspects of this debate (such as myself) can better understand the issues. I posed a hypothetical question. Unfortunately, the answer appears to be that no, it is not possible to have an unemotional discussion on this topic on this forum. No worries. I'm not intellectually curious enough on the topic to wade further in to this mess. Apologies to any I may have offended with my question.

but does an increase in lean body mass = an increase in performance for diabetics? generally as a type 1 diabetic, if you inject more insulin, it means you are eating more. if you don't eat more, or treat the hypo, you die. so it stands to reason that a type 1 diabetic will gain weight from injecting more insulin. whether that has performance enhancing benefits for a diabetic remains to be seen.

Those are great questions. I have no idea. I was simply looking for some thoughtful discussion. Having read through this whole thread, there have been some good points made, and there has been a lot of mud slung, so I'm just going to sit over there, on the sideline and watch this one. Again, apologies to any I may have offended with my question.

Hello seeyouincourt and All,

I understand that you need insulin to live ..... but if you do not have a TUE you may need to get one to be legal to race in venues subscribing to WADA, USADA, NCAA, and other rules .... and may want to check it out if you have not done so already.

I see on the WADA prohibited list INSULINS , AND INSULIN-MIMETICS under S4 Hormones and metabolic modulators.

Being prescribed Insulin it would seem you are eligible for a TUE with a note from your doctor.

And following the stream of consciousness .........Insulin is in the news as a rumor cause of death of Rich Piana:

https://www.menshealth.com/...-rumors-bodybuilding

Excerpt:

"The exact cause of his death has yet to be determined, but that certainly hasn’t stopped people from speculating about potential causes. First, there were reports that an overdose might have been to blame. Now, there are rumors that Piana might have died from using insulin, the hormone that regulates your body's blood sugar. People who inject insulin and who already produce the hormone naturally can see their blood glucose levels drop dangerously low—and if they don't ingest additional sugar to bring their blood glucose back up, the consequences can be fatal."




I think the writing is "Whatever It Takes"

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Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster

If anybody has the time to read:

Took just One attempt at Google:

https://www.usada.org/wp-content/uploads/TUE_guidance_diabetes_mellitus-insulin.pdf


Sucks that you have to declare, but at least it is clearcut that you are good to race with it.




Otherwise, guys in their late midlife crisis trying to fool themselves into beating ageing, the competition and the reaper by taking Testo, just make me sad.


It takes a man to age gracefully.