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Re: Make Me Enjoy Swimming? [Spartan420] [ In reply to ]
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So for the last several years, I grew to really hate waking up to swim too. It is also my weakest sport. But I love triathlon so yeah. I've noticed my motivation tanks the worst during the winter = cold, dark, early and jumping into water. Yuk.

The last two years, I tried something new that drastically changed my attitude about it. After the last triathlon of the year (usually October or November for me), I stopped swimming completely until the first week of January. I found when I gave myself a break from it, by the time the holidays rolled around, I was itching to get back into the pool. The feeling of actually wanting to go to the pool was so foreign to me but it totally worked. This results in keeping me motivated and focused throughout the year and I look forward to my last race when I can take that break from swimming again.

I agree with others... I am a believer that if you just break up your swim you will see a big difference. Just try doing 500 intervals, sip drink, start new interval. It doesn't have to be a long break - just enough to break it up in your head. I think Paddles and flippers are a big deal and an easy way to break it up too. So I will commonly do 500 free, 500 paddles, repeat. Or 500 free, 500 paddles, 500 free, 500 flippers, repeat. This allows me to keep form in check.

Lastly ... Underwater Audio! Seriously. Game changer.
Last edited by: Trigirl357: Feb 8, 19 10:53
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Re: Make Me Enjoy Swimming? [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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Age group, yes.

David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.
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Re: Make Me Enjoy Swimming? [david] [ In reply to ]
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david wrote:
My thoughts are a bit different than others here. A bit of history - I do NOT have a swimming background and still do NOT do flip turns. In my first triathlon, 1981, I was last out of the water. In recent years I have had several FOTW (first out of the water) at IMs and 70.3. I basically swim 30 minutes five days a week, and have done this very consistently in the same pool for the last 34 years. I throw in a couple of longer swims in the weeks just before an IM. Consistent effort over time produces positive results. I do this when the pool opens at 5 am and haven't missed a morning swim for any reason in the past at least 5 years . . . maybe more.

Everyone always asks how I keep doing the same thing (not my personality at all!). I love the swim time because even in a full pool I am "alone" and no one can talk to me. I do things things, which by the way have researched based positive impacts on your life: 1) Spend some time in prayer/meditation/gratefulness 2) bullet point what I am going to accomplish during the day 3) troubleshoot/problem solve the biggest issue I am facing. By the time I have done those three I have many times gone further than planned. I do no count laps. I do some fartlek type pick-ups.

Profound.
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Re: Make Me Enjoy Swimming? [david] [ In reply to ]
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david wrote:
I basically swim 30 minutes five days a week, and have done this very consistently in the same pool for the last 34 years. I throw in a couple of longer swims in the weeks just before an IM. Consistent effort over time produces positive results.

Thanks for posting this.

I've been toying with the idea of mimicking BarryP run frequency to improve my swimming, that's a nice kick of motivation.
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Re: Make Me Enjoy Swimming? [Spartan420] [ In reply to ]
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Spartan420 wrote:
I practice swimming so I dont drown... period.

You don't feel better at some point during the swim than you felt when you got in the water? That's hard to believe.
Last edited by: Mark Lemmon: Feb 8, 19 11:55
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Re: Make Me Enjoy Swimming? [Spartan420] [ In reply to ]
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Spartan420 wrote:
dfroelich wrote:
Ummmm,

But, you've been doing this for 18 months and still dread a swim the night before? Is the identity of a triathlete so important that you will suffer through something you despise?


Yes and yes.

Its not the identity. Its the ability to do them. I practice swimming so I dont drown... period. As a reward for living I get to bike and run.

Just a thought, but have you considered biathlon? It's bike/run without the pesky swimming in the middle. I actually like swimming, so I've never done one and have no real experience with them.
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Re: Make Me Enjoy Swimming? [Trigirl357] [ In reply to ]
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Trigirl357 wrote:
david wrote:
My thoughts are a bit different than others here. A bit of history - I do NOT have a swimming background and still do NOT do flip turns. In my first triathlon, 1981, I was last out of the water. In recent years I have had several FOTW (first out of the water) at IMs and 70.3. I basically swim 30 minutes five days a week, and have done this very consistently in the same pool for the last 34 years. I throw in a couple of longer swims in the weeks just before an IM. Consistent effort over time produces positive results. I do this when the pool opens at 5 am and haven't missed a morning swim for any reason in the past at least 5 years . . . maybe more.

Everyone always asks how I keep doing the same thing (not my personality at all!). I love the swim time because even in a full pool I am "alone" and no one can talk to me. I do things things, which by the way have researched based positive impacts on your life: 1) Spend some time in prayer/meditation/gratefulness 2) bullet point what I am going to accomplish during the day 3) troubleshoot/problem solve the biggest issue I am facing. By the time I have done those three I have many times gone further than planned. I do no count laps. I do some fartlek type pick-ups.


Profound.

This actually makes a ton of sense to me. Swimming, unlike running and cycling, is super technique based. I'm not surprised that you get faster by swimming more. I've found that the biggest speed increased I have had have been basically light switch moments. One week I would be swimming consistent 1:30 100/m and the next I would come down to 1:25 (this is just one example). All of a suddenly, I find a new "feel" for the water and it translates into new speed and I, like the previous poster, swim 4-5 times a week for around 30min (although I use a book of swim workouts to add variety to my workouts).
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Re: Make Me Enjoy Swimming? [Spartan420] [ In reply to ]
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Honestly, I do not understand why people would do something in their free time when they do not enjoy what they are doing. There are duathlon, running and bike races. Go and find something that suits you, triathlon is not the only sport out there. Things might be different when you got a temporary motivational low, but if you do not like it: stop it.
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Re: Make Me Enjoy Swimming? [Spartan420] [ In reply to ]
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10x100s. They challenge you, they make you hit your max HR, they are brutal. At the end I feel truly alive. Almost all other humans can't do them.
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Re: Make Me Enjoy Swimming? [Spartan420] [ In reply to ]
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I look at it from a different perspective. I'm older, and have already been faster than I will ever be again. So improvement isn't part of it. It's more like stopping the aging process, and keeping what I have. 3 years ago (before returning to the pool) my shoulders were slouching, my posture sucked, things were getting baggy and droopy, and putting it simply... I was starting to look and move old. Swimming has been my fountain of youth. I don't care if I swim long (and I do, sometimes up to 6 miles) or swim repeats, or use toys, or work on mechanics or different strokes, or whatever. All I know, is that the longer and the harder I swim, the younger my body looks. The better I look, the more I want to swim. The mirror and my swimming feed off each other. I'll be the first to admit, that this whole athletic/endurance/triathlon stuff has a big vanity factor. Running makes me look like a bullet shoulder stick arm skinny old man. Cycling does nothing for my upper body, flabby arms, and saggy belly. But swimming is making me look like a 20 year old again. And that is worth every boring lap, after every boring lap. Bring it on, I can't get enough.

Athlinks / Strava
Last edited by: Dean T: Feb 8, 19 18:19
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Re: Make Me Enjoy Swimming? [Dean T] [ In reply to ]
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Dean T wrote:
I look at it from a different perspective. I'm older, and have already been faster than I will ever be again. So improvement isn't part of it. It's more like stopping the aging process, and keeping what I have. 3 years ago (before returning to the pool) my shoulders were slouching, my posture sucked, things were getting baggy and droopy, and putting it simply... I was starting to look and move old. Swimming has been my fountain of youth. I don't care if I swim long (and I do, sometimes up to 6 miles) or swim repeats, or use toys, or work on mechanics or different strokes, or whatever. All I know, is that the longer and the harder I swim, the younger my body looks. The better I look, the more I want to swim. The mirror and my swimming feed off each other. I'll be the first to admit, that this whole athletic/endurance/triathlon stuff has a big vanity factor. Running makes me look like a bullet shoulder stick arm skinny old man. Cycling does nothing for my upper body, flabby arms, and saggy belly. But swimming is making me look like a 20 year old again. And that is worth every boring lap, after every boring lap. Bring it on, I can't get enough.

+1000, all the older "serious" swimmers I know look better than the older runners and cyclists, and even better than weight lifters, espec if the swimmer does not allow him/herself to get overweight at all, e.g. maintains his/her college swimming weight. :)


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: Make Me Enjoy Swimming? [Dean T] [ In reply to ]
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Have to agree with the swimming and it's impact on the overall body strength and composition. I have recommitted to swimming this offseason and I have noticed a definite change in the old body. Shoulders and arms are almost looking as defined as my legs these days.It's a win-win. :)
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Re: Make Me Enjoy Swimming? [Spartan420] [ In reply to ]
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AOS here. Mid-pack swimmer with 3ish years experience. Swim about 7-10k/week at the moment. I was in the same position as you. I still don't jump out of bed at 4:30am to get in the pool, but I don't absolutely hate it the way I previously did.

What worked for me:

1- Forget about distance/time/pace. I too would dread the fact that I had a 4k swim planned the next morning. It sounded so long and daunting. Instead of saying "you have to swim 4k tomorrow", I would just go to the pool with a general idea, and no hard and fast distance or time I had to hit. Usually, I tell myself to just get a warm up/drill set in of say 400-1000yds. That's 15 or 20 minutes maximum. If I want to quit there, I can. Not once have I ever quit there, even though I left the option open. Then I'll have a rough estimate for a main set. Maybe 4 x 100 fast. If that cooks me, I'll stop there. If not, I'll do 2 x [4x100], or 4,5,6 x [4 x 100] etc. This is an example, just pick what you want to work on and start with a really small manageable set, and build from there. Add in some kicking and a cool down, and without a gun to my head to hit a certain distance I'll swim 3500 no problem. The main point is to just get yourself to the pool, once you are started it wont be so bad, and not having any set distance will make it easier to get started.

2- Join a masters or other group. I am not a good swimmer, and it took me 2+ years to get the courage to join a group. In 2 months my swimming has improved more than it did in 2 years. I have to wake up at 4am to make my group. I don't love it, but I have been pretty consistent. Even if I can only get to the group once or twice a week, I find myself more motivated to swim on my own so I can work on things I am learning in the group.

3- If you don't know how to flip turn, learn how to flip turn. I learned about a year after I started swimming, and it makes doing laps exponentially better.

4- Mix it up. 3500 straight sounds boring and ineffective. I rarely swim over 1k straight in the pool, and almost every workout will have some fast intervals. You can bury yourself in the pool a lot more frequently than you can on the bike or running. It is also a lot more fun and engaging to go fast than to swim easy.

5- If nothing else works, sometimes you just have to HTFU. If I can just suck it up and get to the pool on M, then W, I would be supremely disappointed with myself for skipping Friday when I have been so consistent all week. And if I make 3 swims the previous week, I don't want to break my streak the following week. That is usually enough to keep me going. This might have the reverse effect for some people...ie "I swam twice already this week, it's okay to skip today"... but not for me.

Good luck!
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Re: Make Me Enjoy Swimming? [Spartan420] [ In reply to ]
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Spartan420 wrote:
How can I stop dreading having to go to the pool?

Today it clicked for me that swimming has gotten to be enjoyable because I'm giving myself a sufficient rest interval.

I would define my sufficient rest interval as long enough so that my performance/times/feel does not drop off. Usually that is 20-30 seconds for 50-200 meters. Longer rest for 400 and up.

Trying to go on 60 or 1:20 or whatever would just bum me out. More often than not I felt like my stroke and times were deteriorating.

So now, I rest enough to where the 1) the stroke feels good and is getting better 2) my times drop down until the last few intervals which is an hour into my swim.

Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.
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Re: Make Me Enjoy Swimming? [Spartan420] [ In reply to ]
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I love swimming, but doing what you do sounds horrible and I would hate that too.

If you can, join a master's group. Instant motivation/competition/challenge. All you have to do is show up and go when they say go. You will get much faster.

Long Chile was a silly place.
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Re: Make Me Enjoy Swimming? [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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ericmulk wrote:
surroundhound wrote:
I know this is contentious, but if toys make it more interesting, try that. I swap out straight swimming with pullbuoy and paddles (focusing on engaging the lats and on the catch/pull), pullbuoy without paddles (to carry that feeling into a faster stroke rate), and finally swimming normally while trying to keep the feeling of hips up and pulling the water that the pullbuoy/paddles helped me get.
Also buy a new swimsuit. Or some nice goggles. When you have new stuff, you want to go use it. In the grand scheme of this sport, a new set of goggles or swimsuit is pocket change.


And really you have just scratched the surface of the diff ways to move through the water. When you add in kicking with and w/o fins, swimming w/ fins, w/ fins and paddles, w/ just paddles, to your swimming w/ pull buoy and paddles, and just buoy, plus just swimming, then you end up with about 8 or more diff ways to swim, and that is just freestyle. If the OP could learn the other three strokes, he could have 32 or more diff ways. Further, you can kick w/ or w/o the k-board, plus on your back you can kick reverse dolphin and breast kick, so really 6 ways to kick w/o fins. Tri people may argue no point in learning the other strokes but we lifetime swimmers know that being able to swim all 4 strokes improves your freestyle. :)

I am surprised on this thread how many people hate swimming. I'm wondering why they are even doing triathlon. If feels like a soccer player who hates kicking the ball!!!!

What Erikmulk said....there are something like 40 different things to do swimming.....full stroke in a all 4 strokes, legs only in all 4, arms only in all four with a buoy. That's 16 right there. Then add in fins, and paddles and paddles with fins and snorkels etc etc and I can survive 2+ hours in a pool without being bored for an instant.

Here is my workout from today (and the ability to do this did not happen overnite, it took me more like 3 years learning various elements of the other three strokes):

This was my set today


  • 1000m warmup assorted strokes
  • 500m kick with fins assorted strokes
  • 5x200m IM with 20 seconds rest....hard fly, easy back, hard breast, easy free
  • 2x400IM + 1x200IM, alternating hard stroke 25m, 25m IM kick
  • 500m kick with fins assorted
  • 5x200m as 50 fly hard + 50 free easy + 50 free hard + 50 free easy
  • 400m cool down assorted strokes easy


But back to the larger point on this thread. I don't really care if we're talking swimming, biking or running. If you hate doing these sports, why even bother with triathlon? Just pick the one you like or two you like and focus on them.

Personally I don't think there is a sport on the planet that I don't enjoy doing. I'll do any sport you put in front of me with varying degrees of proficiency. If you just see sport as a challenge to yourself, you can enjoy the improvement. Trying to worry about how good others are and your lack of progress is a surefire bet to hate sport eventually, because at some point, progress is minimal and other people are way better.
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Re: Make Me Enjoy Swimming? [Spartan420] [ In reply to ]
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I’m in the same boat... haven’t been in the pool since MT in 2017 aside from a couple of swims to make sure I didn’t drown at a sprint aquabike last summer (worst swim of my life). I have been trying to get back to the pool for two weeks but have been cursed with the bad weather we are having in MI as I swim at our local high school. Either the pool is closed or the swim team won’t get out of the pool despite it being public lap swim hours (felt like an old man and wanted to yell at them to get off my lawn and that my tax dollars pay for the pool!). Tomorrow the weather looks good and I will be going. I have started some coaching and we have a team event in May and I don’t want to embarrass myself. To help motivate me tomorrow morning (I am the exact opposite of a morning person) a few of my athletes and friends who love morning workouts have been given permission to start blowing my phone up at 4:30am to make sure I go... I figure even if I don’t want to my wife will force me to just to make my phone stop!

As for motivation when you get to the pool... I agree with what everyone else has said. Masters is first, and if that’s not possible, break it up into fun intervals. I’ve always been a big fan of ladders. 25, 50, 100, 50, 25. Maybe 20 seconds rest between intervals, 30”-2’ between sets.
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Re: Make Me Enjoy Swimming? [Spartan420] [ In reply to ]
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I've started doing a basic workout to keep me swim fit until open water season where I can go for longer distances.
I do this since I tend to get injured if I try to maintain 10k weeks.

In the off season I swim 1000m 50 free, 50 back with fins and then I pull 1000m with paddles.
This takes about 30-32 minutes and that is it.
I do this three times per week and will build to 1500m each in the pre-season.
I did this last year before my 4th IM and my swim was not only the same time (approx. 64-65 minutes) but it felt a lot easier and I was able to sprint the transition this year.
By using toys and staying high in the water, I find it replicates swimming with a wetsuit.
Its also allows me to be more mindful of my stroke and alignment.
The distance keeps me fit and smooth and I don't get burnt out mentally from the monotony of swimming laps.
And besides, it always feels good to go fast.

Hope this helps.
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Re: Make Me Enjoy Swimming? [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
ericmulk wrote:
surroundhound wrote:
I know this is contentious, but if toys make it more interesting, try that. I swap out straight swimming with pullbuoy and paddles (focusing on engaging the lats and on the catch/pull), pullbuoy without paddles (to carry that feeling into a faster stroke rate), and finally swimming normally while trying to keep the feeling of hips up and pulling the water that the pullbuoy/paddles helped me get.
Also buy a new swimsuit. Or some nice goggles. When you have new stuff, you want to go use it. In the grand scheme of this sport, a new set of goggles or swimsuit is pocket change.


And really you have just scratched the surface of the diff ways to move through the water. When you add in kicking with and w/o fins, swimming w/ fins, w/ fins and paddles, w/ just paddles, to your swimming w/ pull buoy and paddles, and just buoy, plus just swimming, then you end up with about 8 or more diff ways to swim, and that is just freestyle. If the OP could learn the other three strokes, he could have 32 or more diff ways. Further, you can kick w/ or w/o the k-board, plus on your back you can kick reverse dolphin and breast kick, so really 6 ways to kick w/o fins. Tri people may argue no point in learning the other strokes but we lifetime swimmers know that being able to swim all 4 strokes improves your freestyle. :)

I am surprised on this thread how many people hate swimming. I'm wondering why they are even doing triathlon. If feels like a soccer player who hates kicking the ball!!!!
What Erikmulk said....there are something like 40 different things to do swimming.....full stroke in a all 4 strokes, legs only in all 4, arms only in all four with a buoy. That's 16 right there. Then add in fins, and paddles and paddles with fins and snorkels etc etc and I can survive 2+ hours in a pool without being bored for an instant.
Here is my workout from today (and the ability to do this did not happen overnite, it took me more like 3 years learning various elements of the other three strokes): This was my set today
  • 1000m warmup assorted strokes
  • 500m kick with fins assorted strokes
  • 5x200m IM with 20 seconds rest....hard fly, easy back, hard breast, easy free
  • 2x400IM + 1x200IM, alternating hard stroke 25m, 25m IM kick
  • 500m kick with fins assorted
  • 5x200m as 50 fly hard + 50 free easy + 50 free hard + 50 free easy
  • 400m cool down assorted strokes easy
But back to the larger point on this thread. I don't really care if we're talking swimming, biking or running. If you hate doing these sports, why even bother with triathlon? Just pick the one you like or two you like and focus on them.
Personally I don't think there is a sport on the planet that I don't enjoy doing. I'll do any sport you put in front of me with varying degrees of proficiency. If you just see sport as a challenge to yourself, you can enjoy the improvement. Trying to worry about how good others are and your lack of progress is a surefire bet to hate sport eventually, because at some point, progress is minimal and other people are way better.


Dev - That was a hell of a workout!!! I've been doing a lot of sets of 200 or 400 IM alternating 25 swim/25 kick, e.g. 25 fly sw, 25 dolphin kick, 25 back kick, 25 back sw, etc. I've found that alternating kicking with swimming helps me get a better feel for integrating the kick into the full stroke. Today I did 16 x 200 IM swim/kick, then another 2000 of mixed freestyle, e.g. some with paddles and buoy, some with just buoy, some just swimming, mostly 100s and 200s with one 500 thrown in for good measure. Most of my kicking has been sans fins the last few years b/c it seems that I can feel the water better w/o them. I still have two sets of fins in my closet but only take one pair of them to the pool maybe every 3-4 weeks.

P.S. I started my 100/100 early on 4 Sept so today marked 160 days of at least a 30 min run every day. :)


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
Last edited by: ericmulk: Feb 10, 19 20:01
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Re: Make Me Enjoy Swimming? [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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ericmulk wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
ericmulk wrote:
surroundhound wrote:
I know this is contentious, but if toys make it more interesting, try that. I swap out straight swimming with pullbuoy and paddles (focusing on engaging the lats and on the catch/pull), pullbuoy without paddles (to carry that feeling into a faster stroke rate), and finally swimming normally while trying to keep the feeling of hips up and pulling the water that the pullbuoy/paddles helped me get.
Also buy a new swimsuit. Or some nice goggles. When you have new stuff, you want to go use it. In the grand scheme of this sport, a new set of goggles or swimsuit is pocket change.


And really you have just scratched the surface of the diff ways to move through the water. When you add in kicking with and w/o fins, swimming w/ fins, w/ fins and paddles, w/ just paddles, to your swimming w/ pull buoy and paddles, and just buoy, plus just swimming, then you end up with about 8 or more diff ways to swim, and that is just freestyle. If the OP could learn the other three strokes, he could have 32 or more diff ways. Further, you can kick w/ or w/o the k-board, plus on your back you can kick reverse dolphin and breast kick, so really 6 ways to kick w/o fins. Tri people may argue no point in learning the other strokes but we lifetime swimmers know that being able to swim all 4 strokes improves your freestyle. :)

I am surprised on this thread how many people hate swimming. I'm wondering why they are even doing triathlon. If feels like a soccer player who hates kicking the ball!!!!
What Erikmulk said....there are something like 40 different things to do swimming.....full stroke in a all 4 strokes, legs only in all 4, arms only in all four with a buoy. That's 16 right there. Then add in fins, and paddles and paddles with fins and snorkels etc etc and I can survive 2+ hours in a pool without being bored for an instant.
Here is my workout from today (and the ability to do this did not happen overnite, it took me more like 3 years learning various elements of the other three strokes): This was my set today
  • 1000m warmup assorted strokes
  • 500m kick with fins assorted strokes
  • 5x200m IM with 20 seconds rest....hard fly, easy back, hard breast, easy free
  • 2x400IM + 1x200IM, alternating hard stroke 25m, 25m IM kick
  • 500m kick with fins assorted
  • 5x200m as 50 fly hard + 50 free easy + 50 free hard + 50 free easy
  • 400m cool down assorted strokes easy
But back to the larger point on this thread. I don't really care if we're talking swimming, biking or running. If you hate doing these sports, why even bother with triathlon? Just pick the one you like or two you like and focus on them.
Personally I don't think there is a sport on the planet that I don't enjoy doing. I'll do any sport you put in front of me with varying degrees of proficiency. If you just see sport as a challenge to yourself, you can enjoy the improvement. Trying to worry about how good others are and your lack of progress is a surefire bet to hate sport eventually, because at some point, progress is minimal and other people are way better.


Dev - That was a hell of a workout!!! I've been doing a lot of sets of 200 or 400 IM alternating 25 swim/25 kick, e.g. 25 fly sw, 25 dolphin kick, 25 back kick, 25 back sw, etc. I've found that alternating kicking with swimming helps me get a better feel for integrating the kick into the full stroke. Today I did 16 x 200 IM swim/kick, then another 2000 of mixed freestyle, e.g. some with paddles and buoy, some with just buoy, some just swimming, mostly 100s and 200s with one 500 thrown in for good measure. Most of my kicking has been sans fins the last few years b/c it seems that I can feel the water better w/o them. I still have two sets of fins in my closet but only take one pair of them to the pool maybe every 3-4 weeks.


Definitely doing IM sets where you alternate full stroke for 25 and kick only for 25 is a really "easy way" to never get bored.

But it takes sooooo much work to get to the point that its even possible to do that workout. I believe this is the challenge for most of us adult onset swimmers. Firstly triathlon does not adequately reward developing this level of techical proficiency in all strokes because of the prevalence of wetsuits in most events. Second, unlike running or cycling, we can't just turn out heads off and do it and look at the scenery and chase a power number or a mile split. In the pool, you have no scenery, so you have to really internalize and learn the technical skill.

It's almost list playing tennis badly. If you have no clue how to serve, backhand, volley, game strategy, react to someone's serve before the ball even hits their racket (because you roughly know where its going to go by the way the opponent's body is moving) and if you don't know the rules of the game how to pace, how to strategize then you're going to kind of hate playing tennis. You can't just go play tennis without all the fundamental skills and put it together.

.....and its really hard to enjoy all the aspects of swimming that guys like you and Jasoninhalifax and Monty have been working into my head (in addition to live people locally), until you really either are forced to learn them or want to learn them (or a combo).

I remember doing my first 400IM event last year and going from my fly to back my goggles almost came off (not sure why), and I was gasping for air after the fly and unable to see and felt like I was choking (not sure why, as vision has nothing to do with breathing, but when you have no clue how to pace a 100fly in a 400IM race that's what happens....you panic). All these little things that you have to put together to do competition, real swimmers learned as kids.....the rest of us Adult onset folks, well, it feels boring learning then because we suck at these skills and there are no shortcuts to learn them....you just go from doing it really really really really badly to less really really really badly to just really badly, to badly, to "hey, that guy looks kind of like he knows what he is doing, maybe I can ask him for tips to, "a real swimmer just asked me how to do a breast stroke underwater pull out and not die from oxygen debt, to a coach pointing to real swimmers and pointing at you and saying, "hey that guy is doing at least 4 dolphin kicks off the wall, why are you guys guys doing just one".

But hey, that process is kind of like perfecting your tennis serve that even Roger Federer is always working on. It's largely really really boring in all technical sports UNTIL you can find enjoyment from the minor incremental enhancements in acquiring new skills and feeling your body move, applying power and relaxing all at the same time.

I THINK anyone who has been in a technical sport in their youth (not swimming) can get to this point. Its more of an enjoyment factor through the neural part of gradually picking up skills vs the brute force enjoyment of biking and seeing a high power number, or running a fast track split. I THINK my friends who downhill, freestyle and telemark ski or do yoga "get" that enjoyment out of gradually building up the mind body connection toward superior form.

PS. Outside of my recent foray into serious swimming, I spent 15+ years trying to get the adult onset XC skier thing as close to perfection as possible, during which I applied what my coaches taught me in my youth technical sports....tennis, baseball, cricket, soccer etc. I eventually got to a high level of proficiency on skis, but it took me around 7-10 years before I could hang out with elite skiers and feel like I had sufficient skill to blend in. Swimming is like that.

I THINK also think that ability to tune out the world and doing really boring things to perfection and enjoying it is what makes guys like Phelps and Brady the hardest working GOATS of all time. I really don't think there is any way that Phelps would have beaten Cavic for Gold Medal number 7 in Beijing without that. Phelps knew exactly where he was and half stroked to the wall because that was going to be faster than gliding in like Cavic. In 2009 at World's Phelps was way behind Cavic, but in the final 15 meters you can see that Phelps is actively using his core like a dolphin and Cavic is just trying to pull hard with his arms and core is not looking as "active" as Phelps. That's Phelps just out executing, but it feels certain to me that both were physical equals on those two races. But I bet that out executing came from "out practicing" (but I could be wrong).
Last edited by: devashish_paul: Feb 10, 19 20:31
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Re: Make Me Enjoy Swimming? [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
ericmulk wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
ericmulk wrote:
surroundhound wrote:
I know this is contentious, but if toys make it more interesting, try that. I swap out straight swimming with pullbuoy and paddles (focusing on engaging the lats and on the catch/pull), pullbuoy without paddles (to carry that feeling into a faster stroke rate), and finally swimming normally while trying to keep the feeling of hips up and pulling the water that the pullbuoy/paddles helped me get.
Also buy a new swimsuit. Or some nice goggles. When you have new stuff, you want to go use it. In the grand scheme of this sport, a new set of goggles or swimsuit is pocket change.


And really you have just scratched the surface of the diff ways to move through the water. When you add in kicking with and w/o fins, swimming w/ fins, w/ fins and paddles, w/ just paddles, to your swimming w/ pull buoy and paddles, and just buoy, plus just swimming, then you end up with about 8 or more diff ways to swim, and that is just freestyle. If the OP could learn the other three strokes, he could have 32 or more diff ways. Further, you can kick w/ or w/o the k-board, plus on your back you can kick reverse dolphin and breast kick, so really 6 ways to kick w/o fins. Tri people may argue no point in learning the other strokes but we lifetime swimmers know that being able to swim all 4 strokes improves your freestyle. :)

I am surprised on this thread how many people hate swimming. I'm wondering why they are even doing triathlon. If feels like a soccer player who hates kicking the ball!!!!
What Erikmulk said....there are something like 40 different things to do swimming.....full stroke in a all 4 strokes, legs only in all 4, arms only in all four with a buoy. That's 16 right there. Then add in fins, and paddles and paddles with fins and snorkels etc etc and I can survive 2+ hours in a pool without being bored for an instant.
Here is my workout from today (and the ability to do this did not happen overnite, it took me more like 3 years learning various elements of the other three strokes): This was my set today
  • 1000m warmup assorted strokes
  • 500m kick with fins assorted strokes
  • 5x200m IM with 20 seconds rest....hard fly, easy back, hard breast, easy free
  • 2x400IM + 1x200IM, alternating hard stroke 25m, 25m IM kick
  • 500m kick with fins assorted
  • 5x200m as 50 fly hard + 50 free easy + 50 free hard + 50 free easy
  • 400m cool down assorted strokes easy
But back to the larger point on this thread. I don't really care if we're talking swimming, biking or running. If you hate doing these sports, why even bother with triathlon? Just pick the one you like or two you like and focus on them.
Personally I don't think there is a sport on the planet that I don't enjoy doing. I'll do any sport you put in front of me with varying degrees of proficiency. If you just see sport as a challenge to yourself, you can enjoy the improvement. Trying to worry about how good others are and your lack of progress is a surefire bet to hate sport eventually, because at some point, progress is minimal and other people are way better.


Dev - That was a hell of a workout!!! I've been doing a lot of sets of 200 or 400 IM alternating 25 swim/25 kick, e.g. 25 fly sw, 25 dolphin kick, 25 back kick, 25 back sw, etc. I've found that alternating kicking with swimming helps me get a better feel for integrating the kick into the full stroke. Today I did 16 x 200 IM swim/kick, then another 2000 of mixed freestyle, e.g. some with paddles and buoy, some with just buoy, some just swimming, mostly 100s and 200s with one 500 thrown in for good measure. Most of my kicking has been sans fins the last few years b/c it seems that I can feel the water better w/o them. I still have two sets of fins in my closet but only take one pair of them to the pool maybe every 3-4 weeks.


Definitely doing IM sets where you alternate full stroke for 25 and kick only for 25 is a really "easy way" to never get bored.

But it takes sooooo much work to get to the point that its even possible to do that workout. I believe this is the challenge for most of us adult onset swimmers. Firstly triathlon does not adequately reward developing this level of techical proficiency in all strokes because of the prevalence of wetsuits in most events. Second, unlike running or cycling, we can't just turn out heads off and do it and look at the scenery and chase a power number or a mile split. In the pool, you have no scenery, so you have to really internalize and learn the technical skill.

It's almost list playing tennis badly. If you have no clue how to serve, backhand, volley, game strategy, react to someone's serve before the ball even hits their racket (because you roughly know where its going to go by the way the opponent's body is moving) and if you don't know the rules of the game how to pace, how to strategize then you're going to kind of hate playing tennis. You can't just go play tennis without all the fundamental skills and put it together.

.....and its really hard to enjoy all the aspects of swimming that guys like you and Jasoninhalifax and Monty have been working into my head (in addition to live people locally), until you really either are forced to learn them or want to learn them (or a combo).

I remember doing my first 400IM event last year and going from my fly to back my goggles almost came off (not sure why), and I was gasping for air after the fly and unable to see and felt like I was choking (not sure why, as vision has nothing to do with breathing, but when you have no clue how to pace a 100fly in a 400IM race that's what happens....you panic). All these little things that you have to put together to do competition, real swimmers learned as kids.....the rest of us Adult onset folks, well, it feels boring learning then because we suck at these skills and there are no shortcuts to learn them....you just go from doing it really really really really badly to less really really really badly to just really badly, to badly, to "hey, that guy looks kind of like he knows what he is doing, maybe I can ask him for tips to, "a real swimmer just asked me how to do a breast stroke underwater pull out and not die from oxygen debt, to a coach pointing to real swimmers and pointing at you and saying, "hey that guy is doing at least 4 dolphin kicks off the wall, why are you guys guys doing just one".

But hey, that process is kind of like perfecting your tennis serve that even Roger Federer is always working on. It's largely really really boring in all technical sports UNTIL you can find enjoyment from the minor incremental enhancements in acquiring new skills and feeling your body move, applying power and relaxing all at the same time.

I THINK anyone who has been in a technical sport in their youth (not swimming) can get to this point. Its more of an enjoyment factor through the neural part of gradually picking up skills vs the brute force enjoyment of biking and seeing a high power number, or running a fast track split. I THINK my friends who downhill, freestyle and telemark ski or do yoga "get" that enjoyment out of gradually building up the mind body connection toward superior form.

PS. Outside of my recent foray into serious swimming, I spent 15+ years trying to get the adult onset XC skier thing as close to perfection as possible, during which I applied what my coaches taught me in my youth technical sports....tennis, baseball, cricket, soccer etc. I eventually got to a high level of proficiency on skis, but it took me around 7-10 years before I could hang out with elite skiers and feel like I had sufficient skill to blend in. Swimming is like that.

I THINK also think that ability to tune out the world and doing really boring things to perfection and enjoying it is what makes guys like Phelps and Brady the hardest working GOATS of all time. I really don't think there is any way that Phelps would have beaten Cavic for Gold Medal number 7 in Beijing without that. Phelps knew exactly where he was and half stroked to the wall because that was going to be faster than gliding in like Cavic. In 2009 at World's Phelps was way behind Cavic, but in the final 15 meters you can see that Phelps is actively using his core like a dolphin and Cavic is just trying to pull hard with his arms and core is not looking as "active" as Phelps. That's Phelps just out executing, but it feels certain to me that both were physical equals on those two races. But I bet that out executing came from "out practicing" (but I could be wrong).

In a nutshell, I think we can potentially summarize by saying, sure, swimming is a tough sport to learn, espec as an adult, but it is certainly feasible and most certainly does not have to be "boring" given all the various swim tools that are out there: various types of fins, paddles, pull buoys, etc. I used to swim with a guy who had four sets of fins including one pair just for breaststroke, and I read an interview with one of the top breaststrokers in the world who said he had four diff sets of paddles. I've never gone to that extreme but it just shows us that even the very best swimmers use the swim tools. Really "tools" is prob a better descriptor than the common ST word "toys".

Keep up the great work, Dev!!!


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: Make Me Enjoy Swimming? [jhammond] [ In reply to ]
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jhammond wrote:
Spartan420 wrote:
dfroelich wrote:
Ummmm,

But, you've been doing this for 18 months and still dread a swim the night before? Is the identity of a triathlete so important that you will suffer through something you despise?


Yes and yes.

Its not the identity. Its the ability to do them. I practice swimming so I dont drown... period. As a reward for living I get to bike and run.


Just a thought, but have you considered biathlon? It's bike/run without the pesky swimming in the middle. I actually like swimming, so I've never done one and have no real experience with them.

He didn't mention if he could ski or shoot, so biathlon seems like an odd suggestion. You probably mean duathlon.
In triathlon 'pesky' swimming isn't usually in the middle, it's at the start.
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Re: Make Me Enjoy Swimming? [Spartan420] [ In reply to ]
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I’d dread swimming if I had to do a flat out 3500-4000 yard straight sesshy as well!

I’m a bit different as I love swimming. I learned to swim later in life like you, and had a serious fear of the open water. I overcame all of this and remember this every time I swim, an ability that I never take for granted because of where I came from. Do you think that your previous fear of swimming may be affecting how you feel about it now?

There are a few things that help me enjoy swimming. For me, swimming with a friend really helps. My friend pushes me, critiques my technique (he’s a much better swimmer) and gives me the shove out the door when I’m feeling slack. When I did squad / masters - I had signed up for a big ocean swim and that was my motivation. We would swim about 5km+ in 1.5 hrs but the time flew as we were constantly being challenged to learn different techniques. We were pushed to keep up or beat others which meant we were all constantly improving. I drastically improved my times and technique while doing squad. When I’m on my own - it’s my time. Whenever I’ve gone through a rough patch at work or with my family ... the pool was my sanctuary. It was where I could meditate, reflect and problem solve. I never did straight sets. I break it up to pyramid sets or when I’m feeling super unmotivated I use paddles and fins.

Another thing I’d suggest is if you live near open water (ocean, lakes, etc) .. as long as it’s not too cold, try and do your swims outdoors as much as possible. For me, that’s like running in the trail but 100x better. When I don’t want to swim in the pool I go to the ocean.
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Re: Make Me Enjoy Swimming? [Spartan420] [ In reply to ]
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I found creating a habit loop has helped. Cue, routine, reward.

Cue - lay out swim stuff by my bed
Routine - Swim
Reward - warm shower, heater blasting in the car, and delicious protein shake.

Once you create a habit you don't really even need to think about it.

Hope this helps!
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Re: Make Me Enjoy Swimming? [Spartan420] [ In reply to ]
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You definitely need to mix up your swimming workout. After an easy warmup do some form drills. Then some interval sets. I like to do variably paced 200's (100 east, 50 medium ,50 fast; then 50 easy, 100 medium, 50 fast; and 50 east, 50 medium, 100 fast).

You should also try the guppy workouts on slowtwitch. They are really great at keeping things interesting but not getting so complicated that you risk getting lost.
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