Lumbar Spinal Fusion Surgery?????

Jan 10, 10 20:14

Post #1 of 40 (18515 views)

I fell in the icestorm at work almost a year ago have had tremendous back pain ever since. I went through Physical therapy done the cortizone shots and takin many meds as to get no releif for alot of pain meds I cant take. I went to several Drs through workmans comp as to only hear oh you cant hurt that bad heres another script. I was so tired of going to these QUACKS...I pleaded with my attorney to get me a second opinion Dr. then he went to court and they approved Dr Brent Hisey in Edmond Oklahoma. He is the only Dr that has set me down and gone over each MRI I have had done and what needed to be done. I had a discogram done on my lumbar a few weeks ago and his diagnosis is to have surgery a Spinal Fusion in which they would go through my abdomen and remove my L4 and L5 then put rods and pins and a bone graph in. Then they would flip me over in this 8 hour process and make incision in my back to put a plate with screws there.

My question is has anyone had this type of surgery and was it successful or have you had a bad experience?? Dr Hisey told me that some patients a few years down the road will have to have the rods and pins removed for the screws start bothering the tissues or hurting the patient. I am a 46 year old female who at one time loved to ride motorcycles but it has become a problem over the last year with the pain. He said I have degenerative disc and the beginning signs of scoliosis.

I also have the C5 C6 and C7 in my neck that have caused tremendous pain but have yet to do the disogram on it for fear of surgwery on it too and being stiff and not being able to keep mobility in my back and neck. Please help me decide as to what I should do to have it or not to have it? And what were your side effects from it?? How long has it took you to heal and get back to normal activities if you ever have???

Re: Lumbar Spinal Fusion Surgery????? [Cheryl Morgan] [ In reply to ]

Jan 10, 10 20:36

Post #2 of 40 (18501 views)

How did you like that discogram?

I had L4 and L5 fused twice. I didn't get the thru the belly treatment. I was 18 the first fusion. After wearing a body cast for 8 weeks then a brace for 8 more I managed to jack it up again? I did the fusion again at 21. I have rods, screws and some wire back there. I would say it still hurts from time to time. I stuggle on cold rainy days, or in the winter.

I ALMOST did surgery again about 10 years ago. I scheduled that discogram test and walked out to never return. That bitch hurts! If you can get thru that the surgery gives ya better pain meds!!

Re: Lumbar Spinal Fusion Surgery????? [mnbrotha2] [ In reply to ]

Jan 10, 10 20:40

Post #3 of 40 (18500 views)

MNBROTHA yes indeed that discogram hurt they put that first one in and I dang near flew off the table and hes oh you felt that one huh? Heck yeah I felt it ouch yes it hurt. The second one however he said since I could only feel him pricking it there is too much bone spur around it so they couldnt get a good reading. The 1st was bad enough thats why I have been reluctant to doing the one on my neck..

So as far as healing time how long did it take you to do normal activities again after the brace or when??

Re: Lumbar Spinal Fusion Surgery????? [Cheryl Morgan] [ In reply to ]

Jan 10, 10 22:27

Post #4 of 40 (18481 views)

I had a spinal fusion at l4-5 18 months ago. I have scoliosis, degenerative disease, spinal stenosis. I had a micro discectomy that didn't work. I had been told that I would need a fusion and when I did that my running days were over. I put it off as long as I could. In the meantime, I saw an article about the surgery that Simon Lessing had. Through a series of events, I met the doctor that did Simon's surgery and consulted with him. He confirmed that I needed a fusion. While being on of the top neurosurgeons in the country he is also an ironman athlete. I felt confident that he would understand. He also assured me that my competition days were long from being over. So I had Dr. Villavicencio do the surgery. I was not in a brace. It was out patient surgery. 2 days later I walked to physical therapy with Bob Cranny who does Dr. V's post op rehab. 4 days later I flew back home. I followed both of their instructions. 6 months later I raced Florida 70.3 and had a 15 minute pr on my 8th race at that distance. 3 months after that I raced the Redman half and had another 15 minute pr over Florida. 3 months after that I raced IM AZ and had a 22 min pr at my 3rd Ironman and placed 6th in my age group. I am also signed up to race St George. I am pain free and do not even need to take an Advil even on peak training weeks. I can not remember the time before surgery that I was ever pain free.

I could not be more thrilled with the work that V did AND I recommend before anyone does a fusion to get a consult with V. PM me if you want more information. Or if you want to contact Boulder Neurosurgical on your own that is fine too,

I am sorry you are dealing with this. Spinal Fusion is scarey, but has come such a long way since then. Hang in there.

Re: Lumbar Spinal Fusion Surgery????? [Cheryl Morgan] [ In reply to ]

Jan 10, 10 22:32

Post #5 of 40 (18476 views)

Oh just to add a bit more once I re-read your post. I have rod, bolts and cadaver bone. I too went to everyone from massage, accupuncture, chiropractic to the lady with crystals that said she could fix me. I also got so many injections I was like a junky.

My surgery took a little over an hour. I woke up and went to the hotel.

I have had 2 other friends have surgery with V. One is here on the board.

I will probably have other thoughts but no more now. Please let me know if I can shed some light on things.

Re: Lumbar Spinal Fusion Surgery????? [trimama] [ In reply to ]

Jan 11, 10 6:07

Post #6 of 40 (18432 views)

Trimana did they go through your abdomen? This is my main concern finding someone who has this same type of surgey done and were there any complications? I have kinda talked myself into going through with it as these sciatic nerves going down both my legs and in my arm are driving me crazy. I get up a limping after sitting for long periods or when I have woke up in mornings limp also.. Its just been heck on me and I want it fixed but have talked to a few people here that have had surgey but they only went through their backs and not their abdomen.

Re: Lumbar Spinal Fusion Surgery????? [Cheryl Morgan] [ In reply to ]

Jan 11, 10 6:45

Post #7 of 40 (18418 views)

No he went through my back. It was a minimally invasive. Dr. V (to my understanding) pioneered this operation. I highly recommend you research this option. I am not a doctor, but when I looked at my options as well as what other surgeons told me I was scared out of my wits prior to meeting V. I too had so much pain down my left leg and was tripping going up stairs. I was really losing function in the leg. V (like others) have told me that I will need to have my scoliosis addressed at some point. I can assure that if and when I have any other surgeries, the only person to work on my back will be Dr. Villavicencio.

I can tell you that I am thrilled I did the surgery. I am disappointed on all the thousands of dollars I wasted on the "woowoo" stuff. While I am sure those protocols are right for some, they were not ever going to work for me.
I know that you can send your films to boulder and have them reviewed by V. He will then email or call you with his recommendations. Do a search for gleveq here on slowtwitch. I know she wont mind. She too had surgery with V. after I had such a good experience. There is another slowtwitcher that had surgery last week with V as well. I think he is just now recovering. We coached him through the process too. Also, one of my team mates on my masters team went to Boulder to have V do the fusion. It really is remarkable and I would think at least a second opinion. Don't hesitate to email me. I would be happy to walk you through the process. I know it is very unsettling and the information is overwhelming.

Good Luck
Dawn

Last edited by: trimama: Jan 11, 10 6:54

Re: Lumbar Spinal Fusion Surgery????? [trimama] [ In reply to ]

Jan 11, 10 7:51

Post #8 of 40 (18402 views)

Thanks Dawn how do I get ahold of his email to send him my MRI reports????

Re: Lumbar Spinal Fusion Surgery????? [Cheryl Morgan] [ In reply to ]

Jan 11, 10 8:51

Post #9 of 40 (18386 views)

In Reply To:

I fell in the icestorm at work almost a year ago have had tremendous back pain ever since. I went through Physical therapy done the cortizone shots and takin many meds as to get no releif for alot of pain meds I cant take. I went to several Drs through workmans comp as to only hear oh you cant hurt that bad heres another script. I was so tired of going to these QUACKS...I pleaded with my attorney to get me a second opinion Dr. then he went to court and they approved Dr Brent Hisey in Edmond Oklahoma. He is the only Dr that has set me down and gone over each MRI I have had done and what needed to be done. I had a discogram done on my lumbar a few weeks ago and his diagnosis is to have surgery a Spinal Fusion in which they would go through my abdomen and remove my L4 and L5 then put rods and pins and a bone graph in. Then they would flip me over in this 8 hour process and make incision in my back to put a plate with screws there.

My question is has anyone had this type of surgery and was it successful or have you had a bad experience?? Dr Hisey told me that some patients a few years down the road will have to have the rods and pins removed for the screws start bothering the tissues or hurting the patient. I am a 46 year old female who at one time loved to ride motorcycles but it has become a problem over the last year with the pain. He said I have degenerative disc and the beginning signs of scoliosis.

I also have the C5 C6 and C7 in my neck that have caused tremendous pain but have yet to do the disogram on it for fear of surgwery on it too and being stiff and not being able to keep mobility in my back and neck. Please help me decide as to what I should do to have it or not to have it? And what were your side effects from it?? How long has it took you to heal and get back to normal activities if you ever have???

Sounds like you might benefit from a fusion. The problem that causes most pain, that would benefit from a fusion is "instability" at the offending joint. You could get another opinion from a physical therapist trained in the art of "manual therapy" (who has taken the S1 course) who should be able to diagnose such instability on physical exam. (most people don't know how to do this - I don't - but the people in my office who were trained in this technique were routinely right in predicting what the X-rays, MRI's and CT's would show - at least the levels involved. Instability at a spinal joint shows up as spurring on an X-ray btw. If you have spurring you have instability. The only real questions then are how bad is it, how bad are the symptoms, and will it require surgery to stabilize?

The anterior approach to a spinal fusion is unusual and is not done by most doctors. However, the doctor I sent my toughest patients to and the one I thought got the best results used the anterior approach routinely.

--------------
Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

Re: Lumbar Spinal Fusion Surgery????? [Cheryl Morgan] [ In reply to ]

Jan 11, 10 8:56

Post #10 of 40 (18379 views)

Email me at dawnpelder@mac.com and I will give you his email.

I just called the office and they told me that is the best way. I also talked to glevq and I am sure she is going to chime in here in a bit. I will also let V know to look for your email as he is getting used to us sending him people.

Re: Lumbar Spinal Fusion Surgery????? [Frank Day] [ In reply to ]

Jan 11, 10 11:47

Post #11 of 40 (18343 views)

Thanks Frank he did tell me that he couldnt get a good reading on teh second disc he tried on the discogram because of all the bone spur so I understand a little better now that you have explained that part to me...
Dawn I will email ya thanks so much to all of you for giving me some hope..

Re: Lumbar Spinal Fusion Surgery????? [Cheryl Morgan] [ In reply to ]

Jan 11, 10 13:14

Post #12 of 40 (18319 views)

Back problems are no fun!!

I couldn�t do much of anything for years without being in chronic pain. I had a discogram done that pointed out my problem. I had no L4 disc and L5 was half disintegrated. My options where to have the disc�s bolted together or try and support the area with core strengthening. I chose the core strengthening. I did the physiotherapy for 6 weeks and then was told to walk to keep me active. Walking quickly became boring and I started to light run. Soon I was jogging and I haven�t looked back. Running didn�t bother my back and before I knew it I completed my first half marathon followed by many full marathons. My business partner is an accomplished Ironman and after I watched him finish the inaugural Kentucky Ironman I was eager to move from marathons to ironman�s. I learned how to swim and ride a bike with his help and a lot of effort and no back pain I completed my first Ironman and am looking forward to completing Lake Placid this summer. Seriously, I wasn�t able to cut the grass without great pain but because I chose core strengthening for support I am now an Ironman. No two back problems are the same but I strongly recommend you try core strengthening before you try anything else. Once and a while my back acts up but I can get past it within a day, two at the most. It usually happens after I cut the grass or do the dishes never after a long ride or run. Good luck with whatever you decide.

Any man who can drive safely while kissing a pretty girl is simply not giving the kiss the attention it deserves. Albert Einstein

Re: Lumbar Spinal Fusion Surgery????? [task] [ In reply to ]

Jan 11, 10 13:35

Post #13 of 40 (18300 views)

Thanks Task will look further into it . I walk alot but it makes the sciatic nerves in my legs hurt worse as well as sitting for long periods of times..

Re: Lumbar Spinal Fusion Surgery????? [Frank Day] [ In reply to ]

Jan 11, 10 13:39

Post #14 of 40 (18297 views)

In Reply To:

The anterior approach to a spinal fusion is unusual and is not done by most doctors. However, the doctor I sent my toughest patients to and the one I thought got the best results used the anterior approach routinely.

There is nothing unusual about the anterior approach AT ALL. It will also lead to less complication as you do not have to tear through all of the muscle in your back to reach the vertebrae. Obviously there is risk regardless of the method but without seeing actual data I would not mislead the OP.

edit: I would agree that you should seek all alternatives before surgery. Once you have the surgery you can't go back.

Ride Scoozy Electric Bicycles
http://www.RideScoozy.com

Last edited by: msuguy512: Jan 11, 10 13:40

Re: Lumbar Spinal Fusion Surgery????? [msuguy512] [ In reply to ]

Jan 11, 10 13:53

Post #15 of 40 (18288 views)

In Reply To:

In Reply To:

The anterior approach to a spinal fusion is unusual and is not done by most doctors. However, the doctor I sent my toughest patients to and the one I thought got the best results used the anterior approach routinely.

There is nothing unusual about the anterior approach AT ALL. It will also lead to less complication as you do not have to tear through all of the muscle in your back to reach the vertebrae. Obviously there is risk regardless of the method but without seeing actual data I would not mislead the OP.

edit: I would agree that you should seek all alternatives before surgery. Once you have the surgery you can't go back.

I only meant it is unusual in that it is not commonly done compared to other types of back surgery to address the "same" issues.

Like I said, in my practice I saw everyone else's failures. If I felt the patients still needed surgical stabilization before their issue was ever going to be solved I sent them to my "anterior approach" guy.

--------------
Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

Re: Lumbar Spinal Fusion Surgery????? [Cheryl Morgan] [ In reply to ]

Jan 11, 10 14:03

Post #16 of 40 (18287 views)

I'm sorry to hear about the issues you've been having. I went through a similar process from August 2004 to May 2006. I went through every treatment imaginable before having a discogram in the spring of 2006. Based on the results of the discogram the surgeon recommended fusion of L3 to S1. It was an anterior procedure where they removed three discs that were replaced by cadaver bones and held in place with titanium screws and braces. It makes for a great x-ray. It looks like a crampon stuck to my spine.

I was back racing short course in the spring of 2007 and did IM Florida that fall. Two more IM's and a number of halfs and olympics since then.

Due to some nerve damage during the two years leading up to the surgery, I have some issues with my hamstrings that affects my running and I have some occasional back spasms, but on a whole it's been a great experience. In the two years prior to the surgery it was impossible for my to ride for more then 30 minutes without being in intense pain. Even walking for more then a half hour was dreadful, and sitting for long periods wasn't any better.

I wish you the best of luck. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

scott

Re: Lumbar Spinal Fusion Surgery????? [trimama] [ In reply to ]

Jan 11, 10 14:04

Post #17 of 40 (18286 views)

Saw this and thought of you.

Kurt

Re: Lumbar Spinal Fusion Surgery????? [Cheryl Morgan] [ In reply to ]

Jan 11, 10 14:20

Post #18 of 40 (18279 views)

trimamma makes some great points. doc's skill is incredibly important. travel to see the best of you can if you afford it (can you afford not to at this point?). as you know now, nothing matters when you don't have your health. and post op care is probably the most important advice you are going to get in your life. after my back surgery, they told me no running or biking for 4 months, and i ended up going almost 8 months with no exercise, but it was worth it in the end.

like trimamma, i am living proof you can do IM's after back surgery. i did IMAZ as well in Nov, 2009, 35 minute PR (11:09) 5th in AG and virtually no pain. and at the age of 45, two years after back surgery.

good luck!

Sue

Re: Lumbar Spinal Fusion Surgery????? [Cheryl Morgan] [ In reply to ]

Jan 11, 10 14:21

Post #19 of 40 (18278 views)

I had the same issues until I started to do the very simple core exercise given to me by the therapist. Nothing changed quickly but it did change and I still do these very simple exercise every day. I know I will have to keep this up for the rest of my life.

Any man who can drive safely while kissing a pretty girl is simply not giving the kiss the attention it deserves. Albert Einstein

Re: Lumbar Spinal Fusion Surgery????? [task] [ In reply to ]

Jan 11, 10 14:52

Post #20 of 40 (18267 views)

I appreciate everyones output on this you guys have enlightened me alot and chased away a bunch of my fears. I have set the discogram up for my neck today to find out whats goin on with it. I know from MRI that C6 and C7 are bulging so now to make my decision as to go through the Fusion on my lower back on the L4 and L5. I would still like to find someone who has had the same type of surgery they are wanting to do to me through the abdomen and find out if they have had any complications. Thanks for all your support Guess there will be no motorcycle riding for me this year if I go through with it will have to put me on some training wheels LOL....

Re: Lumbar Spinal Fusion Surgery????? [ATX TRIHEAD] [ In reply to ]

Jan 11, 10 15:12

Post #21 of 40 (18256 views)

Hey there friend! Yep it is me! Just spreading the "love"!

Re: Lumbar Spinal Fusion Surgery????? [sto] [ In reply to ]

Jan 11, 10 15:15

Post #22 of 40 (18253 views)

Sue, we finished in almost the same time! How funny. My time got me 6th an 2 slots short of Kona. Congrats on your race! It was a good day!!!

Re: Lumbar Spinal Fusion Surgery????? [trimama] [ In reply to ]

Jan 11, 10 15:27

Post #23 of 40 (18243 views)

Thanks Dawn need all the "love" in the world right now not sure which direction to go...

Re: Lumbar Spinal Fusion Surgery????? [mnbrotha2] [ In reply to ]

Jan 11, 10 22:29

Post #24 of 40 (18203 views)

Geez...I'm one of the 8% of population that has a L6. Naturally fused to L5...no surgery needed...guess that explains my lack of lower back flexibility. I may as well ditch the aero bars & just ride a mountain bike since I need so much height on my armrests I feel almost like the torso is vertical. Do the PT after surgery, it will greatly help determine your comfort from here on out on a day to day basis.

Re: Lumbar Spinal Fusion Surgery????? [msuguy512] [ In reply to ]

Jan 12, 10 2:40

Post #25 of 40 (18192 views)

In Reply To:

In Reply To:

The anterior approach to a spinal fusion is unusual and is not done by most doctors. However, the doctor I sent my toughest patients to and the one I thought got the best results used the anterior approach routinely.

There is nothing unusual about the anterior approach AT ALL. It will also lead to less complication as you do not have to tear through all of the muscle in your back to reach the vertebrae. Obviously there is risk regardless of the method but without seeing actual data I would not mislead the OP.

edit: I would agree that you should seek all alternatives before surgery. Once you have the surgery you can't go back.

I would recommend that you take a look at this research:

Villavicencio AT, Burneikiene S, Bulsara KR, Thramann JJ. Perioperative
Complications in Transforaminal Lumbar Interbody Fusion versus Anterior
- Posterior Reconstruction for Lumbar Disc Degeneration and Instability.
J of Spinal Disorders and Techniques. 2006; 19(2):92-97.

This demonstrates twice the operative time, twice the blood loss, twice the length of hospital stay and more than twice the overall complications for anterior postereior suregery as compared to minimally invasive posterior surgery alone. I am not a doctor, but I did read everything I could research as I went down this path. Ultimately, it is the results that count.

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