I don't question your analysis of the race on Saturday, Ryf was below her usual high watermark for the bike until she found her pedals at mile 87 or whenever it was she suddenly hit the big turbo boost.

But let's not forecast how the next however many Kona races are going to go based on Saturday. I think it is fair to say that Ryf is close to her career peak in terms of ability and performance, she has been doing this for a long while. I also think it is fair to say that Lucy Charles is probably not at her career peak, and will get better and better, given her age and that she is pretty new to two of the three disciplines. Clearly she can ride a push-bike pretty well already, but how well in the future?

I think the only prediction you can put any money on is that it's going to be exciting to watch!

Yeah, it was really impressive display on Saturday.

She's obviously doing something right on the bike, considering the way she rode that as a 112 mile ITT, but man, her position looked as though it had a lot of room for improvement especially compared to Brandon just behind. If she can work on that (and her helmet strap!) then next year's race could be over by T2.

Lots of comments on her position, hopefully her manager should be able to sort that out as he - amongst other things - runs a bike fitting business: https://www.tri247.com/...les-bike-specialized

Freespeed are very highly respected so I can only assume there was a reason behind how she was positioned on Saturday.

When did Brandon pass her on the run: must have missed this?

I guess the marathon bit doesn't count in your triathlons: swim, T1, best bike position, collect your medal.

I take your point, and in my defence I did start that sentence by saying "she's obviously doing something right"... but are you telling me that you can't see any room for improvement in this position between now and next year:





*Not ideal pictures I know, but the best I could find given the universally shit coverage of supposedly the biggest event in the triathlon calendar.

interesting to see the ex-pro cyclist and now mens bike course record holder's position which doesn't look too aggressive and also using a "shallow" rim upfront:

Ok, aside from whether her position could be optimized, and her chin strap flapping in the wind costing her watts...

Is is just me or does that helmet look enormous on her!?!?! I'm not familiar with that helmet, maybe it's the right size for her, but sure seems like a smaller size would be better. Maybe that's the smallest size they make. idk

I'm not entirely sure what LC's ultimate run ability will be but I can confidently say that her combined swim + potential bike capability could give her an uncomfortably large margin leaving T2.

Hoping the Monday Morning crowd has some input!

Scott

I'm guessing two years before her run becomes good enough to be a threat.
Running takes time or you get injured.

Does anyone else think Lucy Charles looks Melissa Joan Hart? Maybe it's just me...

What does yesterday mean for Lucy (and Lionel) financially?

Any insights into how their existing contracts might reward yesterday’s performances ? Are they spending this week negotiating sponsorship agreements for 2018?


They both got nice pay-checks for their efforts on race day from the prize purse.

They both probably had good sponsor bonus pay-outs for their performances as well. Kona is the race on the calendar that tends to have the largest pay-outs for a top-5 place in the calendar year. Everything else is minimal.

As to future contracts, of course it will depend on where they are at in current contracts, but generally, if they are up for renewal, or are looking elsewhere, obviously great performances like this, will increase the dollars that you can ask for in a contract going forward.

I must say that Lucy was the most exciting and interesting performance of the day. Gone are the days when it was said you had to go to Kona X-times before being successful. Granted she did race here as an AG'er two years ago - but the Pro race is a whole other beast. The up-side for her is extraordinary. A phenomenal swimmer, she's been a quick developer on the bike, and she seems to be one of those rare, uber-swimmers, who can run well. These are truly scary athletes!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Well, I and many others are still stumbling on her old site when quick-searching her name. Her new website doesn't even make the first page of google results (as of 1030 Mountain Time) when searching "Lucy Charles." She needs to take down that website and spend a few bucks on someone who knows SEO.

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"The person on top of the mountain didn't fall there." - unkown

also rule 5

and maybe Tri-Rig can step in and spot her a new front brake. I'm guessing that side-pull front brake wasn't doing her any favors

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TEAM F3 Undurance

With the benefit of the retrospectoscope, Ryf says in her interview that she felt like crap and biked poorly until the end of the bike.

http://www.slowtwitch.com/News/Ryf_Pushes_Through_Difficulty_to_take_3rd_Kona_Title_6614.html

""I felt really bad at the start of the bike,” she said about her race, “and I didn't know what would come. I thought I'd just give my all in the last 40k and didn't even think about the run."
Let’s talk about that last 40k. At the mile-87 time check, Charles had actually out split Ryf on the bike by nearly a minute. By the end of the race Ryf’s bike split was just over 5 minutes faster than Charles’. Ryf outrode Charles by 6 minutes in 25 miles, 4 of it coming in the last 13 miles. It wasn’t that Charles rode slowly. It’s that Ryf stomped on the pedals the way no Ironman competitor can do, besides her. The closing miles were so fast the crowd at T2 did not expect Ryf to come in first off the bike course, ready instead to greet Charles."


Still, no doubt that there's a new women Kona monster threat coming down the pipeline with lots of potential! I wouldn't go so far as to say she'll definitely smash everyone out there, but for sure Ryf has something to worry about now.

I'm guessing that side-pull front brake wasn't doing her any favors


Yes - that's what was holding her up towards the end of the bike! :)

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Hi, Richard here, Lucy's manager – several good questions raised that I will do my best to answer.

Sponsorship: we are in the lucky position of having negotiated some very good endemic partnerships for Lucy prior to her racing in Kona. Following her results in Samorin and Frankfurt (both with good live coverage) it became clear to several major brands that Lucy will be spending plenty of time at the front of Championship races going forwards. Obviously, the result at Kona has attracted plenty of further interest and we are assessing those approaches with regard to finalising her roster for 2018. Current focus for us is non-endemic brands and again there is good progress on that front.

Website: as most of you have noticed, Lucy has a new website lucycharles.com - this has only been live for around 10 days so the SEO optimisation will take a while to propagate. We plan to keep it simple and professional, we'll add to it over time but as with any 24 year old most of Lucy's online presence is via instagram where she has 24k+ followers.

Bike position: I have enjoyed the commentary on this, not least because as some have mentioned, I did the bike fit for Lucy on her Shiv (my day job). I wholeheartedly agree there is room for improvement. Watching the coverage online we echoed many of the comments you have made here, particularly chinstrapgate.

A bit of background. We were provided a test Shiv by Specialized one week before Frankfurt so the focus of the original fit was to replicate the position that Lucy had been riding on her previous bike, a Boardman. We felt we achieved this pretty well and her second place there with no undue discomfort on the bike reassured us that it was a good start point (photo below from the studio session).

As I am sure you are aware, the Shiv is a relatively tall/short frame and it was a challenge to get Lucy low enough, we are at the extreme of adjustment without resorting to negative stems etc.

My view watching the feed at the time is that Lucy has a habit of moving forwards on her saddle which results in her upper arms becoming overly vertical, raising her torso and this also makes it difficult to keep a lower head position. It is something we worked hard at in the studio but there is still plenty of work to do here and gains to be made. We also suspect that Lucy's swimmers shoulders make it more challenging to achieve an optimal shrug/head position.

Plans are in place to get Lucy in the Specialized Win tunnel over the next couple of months, we are acutely aware there is plenty of room for improvement, so watch this space.

Good spot by whoever mentioned the large size helmet. Lucy found the S/M helmet uncomfortably tight so is wearing the L/XL version currently.

How good can Lucy be? It is fun to speculate on this, the key unknown factor is how a 24 year old will endure concurrent seasons of top level ironman racing, to our knowledge it is an unprecedented situation. If she stays healthy we firmly believe there are good gains to make on both the bike and run and that will be the focus for 2018. If she can get closer to Daniela, a legend of the sport, then it will be very good progress.

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Richard Melik | I work for the following companies | Zwift.com | Freespeed Bike Fit (UK)
Manager | David McNamee

Those two positions aren't even remotely the same.

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Jim Manton / ERO Sports

Very cool for you to come on the forum and respond. It's not a lot of fun having your work picked apart.

It's possible a proper fitting Evade will test faster than the SWorks in L/XL.

You'll need to get rid of the Specialized aero bar to get her in a better position, which I'm sure you know. I can't believe they haven't come out with something better since their recall.

Interesting about the forward movement on the saddle. Though she doesn't appear to have the body type associated with it, some athletes naturally rotate their pelvis posteriorly when pedaling, and produce far more power doing so. They tend to do the "typewriter" when pedaling - i.e. They inch forward and then push themselves back on the saddle over and over again throughout the ride. Everyone thinks anterior pelvic rotation is a must, but it's simply not true for everyone. Some of the greatest TT'ers in modern cycling history rotate posteriorly; most recently, Tony Martin. He's a great case to look at because he tried to fight it and change his position. I was flattered that he and his coach tried to copy an "ERO position" a few years ago with more anterior rotation and tilted forearms after his infamous "bloody undercarriage" incident at Worlds here in the US, but it just doesn't work for him. When he returned to his natural pedaling style, his results returned with it.

I'm not saying this is how Lucy pedals, just that athletes need to position themselves the way their particular bodies want to work. I have no doubt you'll find what's best for her. It's just, on a daily basis, you see posts on this and other forums that advocate only anterior rotation, and it's simply not correct for everyone. So, I'm not preaching at you, I'm speaking to all those who think anterior rotation and flat backs are the only way to fit someone to a bike. This, of course, coming from someone who has a reputation for long and low mind you! Contrary to popular belief, not everyone leaves ERO like that.

(Begin Pink Font) Oh, and yes she needs more reach, but I think your fit area is so narrow, she'd be hitting the wall! Lol. (End Pink Font). Just joking. Cheers to you and Lucy! I look forward to watching her progress.

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Jim Manton / ERO Sports

Hi Richard!

Big THANK YOU for coming here to discuss this with us. Exchanges like this tend to restore my faith in Slowtwitch, and the world in general. Hopefully, the peanut gallery does not drive you away any time soon.

While Lucy is on another planet in terms of talent, she is very relatable in the sense that she is new to triathlon with room to evolve. Sharing in the development of that kind of talent is educational and inspirational to mortal age groupers like me. Plus, my 12YO club swimmer of a daughter thinks Lucy is cool. I look forward to her development and wish her success. Hopefully, she remains transparent about the process so we can benefit!

Thanks in particular for sharing the back story of Lucy's bike fit. Please continue to share as the story continues!

Your studio screams mad scientist, I noticed Norseman in your bio (Hiya!), and your post says a lot about your business acumen. That's a compelling combination. How did you get into managing athletes?

Scott

She has the potential to be one of the best long course triathletes in the history of the sport, but it's a tough, tough sport. If she can stay injury free and motivated to cope with the training load for year after year she can go far.

Hi Jim

Interesting observations so thanks for taking the time to reply. Whilst I completely agree that some cyclists generate more power with posterior pelvic rotation I tend towards the thinking that it puts undue pressure on the lower back and is therefore not optimal for a long distance triathlon position.

Comfort will always be a lower priority for a pure time triallist after aerodynamics and power generation, this image of Vasil Kiryienka makes my eyes water but he became world champ in this position so who are we to argue. I suspect, however, that he wouldn't run a decent marathon off this setup.

Seriously though, plenty to work on with Lucy over the winter, there was an element of 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' in the run up to Kona but plenty of time now to refine the bike setup and positioning over the next few months.

Richard

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Richard Melik | I work for the following companies | Zwift.com | Freespeed Bike Fit (UK)
Manager | David McNamee

I hope she can be successful, rack up a few Kona wins, she's got the looks and seems nice enough, and she's British!

All the ingredients there to be very marketable which should lead to bringing people to the Sport.

Norseman - every bit as good a race as you would imagine. My favourite triathlon experience bar none, epic in every way and I was just happy to finish ahead of my wife who won the race that year.

In terms of getting into management, as someone else mentioned I have been running an amateur team out of the UK for 7 years with a focus on Kona. Including this year Team Freespeed has had 12 athletes on the podium in Kona including two age group winners. In that time my role has been managing the athletes and negotiating with sponsors, many of who have been with us for 5 years plus including Clif Bar, Skechers and Speedfil.

Last year I began working on a professional level with Catherine Faux who had been a member of our team in 2013 when she had the fastest amateur time ever in Kona (9hrs 15mins). Cat raced one Ironman as a pro last year, winning Ironman Vichy, but during the race picked up a stress fracture in her heel that has proved extremely difficult to resolve. Reluctantly, Cat has returned to full time work whilst undergoing extensive rehab but will hopefully one day return to demonstrate her potential at the distance.

Lucy had applied to join our team for the 2016 season but then decided to turn pro instead and we reconnected early this year once it became clear from early season results that she may need some management assistance going forward.

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Richard Melik | I work for the following companies | Zwift.com | Freespeed Bike Fit (UK)
Manager | David McNamee

I think placing second at Kona is more than "coming down the pipeline." She's definitely arrived! Sure, Ryf is still #1, but this was truly an outstanding performance and will be interesting to see her continuing development.

https://www.theguardian.com/...lon-british-swimming

I hope she stays patient