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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [ThailandUltras] [ In reply to ]
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Looks like training load, stress (Reese's heart condition), and calcium were things she attributed to the injury.

I nailed it with over use (training load) and elimination of dairy in the diet (calcium).
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [Vegan Tri] [ In reply to ]
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Hi All, thanks for your interest and support with this injury.

I noticed my video has been shared on this thread and wanted to address some of the speculations.

1 - I am not a vegan.
2- I eat meat.
3 - I have been eating dairy products, especially in the “off-season” my favorite meal is, after all, pizza. I cut out dairy before races last season and found it beneficial with race day performance and recovery between races. I resumed dairy foods not long after I won the 70.3 world championships, and there was no need to limit my diet when I was popping champagne.
4 - I have checked my vitamin levels, and both my vitamin D and calcium levels are currently optimal. However, they were probably slightly lower earlier in the year when I was returning to training. This likely contributed to bone weakness and an increase in training volume.

Hopefully, that helps clarify some things.
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [Lucy Charles] [ In reply to ]
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LCB

Many thanks for responding to the thread. Very cool of you to take time to come on and clarify a few things. I think we all wish you a speedy recovery and look forward to seeing you race again, hopefully later this year. I did find it interesting that you had a tibial stress fracture previously (as have I--of course, being an MD, I was able to order an MRI on myself and get a diagnosis quickly)

Super fortunate to have access to the Red Bull team... it sounds like they did a fine job jumping on testing and explaining things. How very fortunate! You've done pretty well with diet/supplements to be able to have solid bone density despite that lack of sunshine/vitamin D. For most athletes the increase in training volume (?and perhaps harder surface) is the biggest factor by far.

It seems like you have a very good understanding of how sf's occur. I thought the video you made was extremely good and will help others for sure. We should get Dan to link this in his 'Hot Forum Topics' regarding injury here on slowtwitch.


Would you comment on shoes? Do you rotate? How many miles before you change?
Also, do you have high arches?


Please ask your docs/team about water running. It's very sport specific and can really help maintain fitness. Hope you are back to training soon! The waiting is so very hard...

Dale
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [dtoce] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks, Dale: I appreciate your comments.

Re shoes, I swapped to Asics metaspeed ~ May last year after some testing between all the “super” shoes.

I have “normal” arches, not excessively high and not flat.

I change shoes regularly, I don’t count miles, but I keep an eye on the wear to the bottom of the shoes. I tend not to run in carbon shoes much over winter, where most of my running is on trail/grass. This could have also been a contributing factor, as when I started training in Lanzarote, it was increased use of carbon shoes on hard surfaces.
Last edited by: Lucy Charles: Apr 8, 22 9:42
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [Lucy Charles] [ In reply to ]
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Wishing you the best with a speedy recovery. I think we all understand how disappointing and frustrating an injury can be but even more so for professional athletes.

As well, thank you for being very transparent with everything as I think it helps us understand what happened and may help others in similar circumstances or avoid injury altogether.

How long did you eliminate dairy during the season (days, weeks, months?) Could that period have coincided with intense training for IM, ITU, Superleague?

Stress release of cortisol could have had some effects on the body also that contributed. Hard to say as you mentioned it was probably a lot of different things, but I do hope you'll be back at it soon!
Last edited by: Vegan Tri: Apr 8, 22 11:03
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [dtoce] [ In reply to ]
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dtoce wrote:
It seems like you have a very good understanding of how sf's occur. I thought the video you made was extremely good and will help others for sure. We should get Dan to link this in his 'Hot Forum Topics' regarding injury here on slowtwitch.

i created a *stress fracture* category. as you may guess, over the years we've had dozens of threads on stress fractures: 3 on tibial stress fractures just in the last couple of years. the other areas where we've had a lot of threads are calcaneus (heel); metatarsal. we also have a separate category for high hamstring tendinopathy and i wonder how often hamstring avulsion fractures and this are misdiagnosed (in one direction or the other). anyway, LOTS of you have had stress fractures, men and women.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [Lucy Charles] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Lucy,

Thanks for the information and for stopping by here!

Quick question for you (and really anyone): Has any of your profession team mentioned how mental stress may manifest itself into a physical feeling or something that can be "measured" (for lack of a better word)? You obviously had a lot of mental stress from Reece's health concerns and I wonder if there is any real way to know when it's time to turn down the physical training in balance with an increase in mental stressors? I would think mental stressors could be more "hidden" in your body and harder to know when it is actually effecting your recovery than physical stress.
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [FuzzyRunner] [ In reply to ]
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Is there more detailed info on Reese's story?

http://www.coupleofathletes.com
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [FuzzyRunner] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Fuzzyrunner (cool name)

This is a really great question; the answer, in my experience, is YES. Psychological stress can absolutely manifest into physical stress, and it can be measured to a degree. I often see changes in my HRV and sleep performance when stressed. My physio can tell if I’m stressed from the tension in my muscles. My performance (particularly swimming) is poor when I’m stressed. Reece can often tell through observation of my daily training and my mood; he often points out that maybe something needs to be changed or something is out of balance or that I just need to take a rest. Unfortunately, he was not around to observe the build-up of this particular situation.

We have set up an environment where stress is kept to a minimum. However, it’s impossible to avoid all the time.
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [FuzzyRunner] [ In reply to ]
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FuzzyRunner wrote:
Hi Lucy,

Thanks for the information and for stopping by here!

Quick question for you (and really anyone): Has any of your profession team mentioned how mental stress may manifest itself into a physical feeling or something that can be "measured" (for lack of a better word)? You obviously had a lot of mental stress from Reece's health concerns and I wonder if there is any real way to know when it's time to turn down the physical training in balance with an increase in mental stressors? I would think mental stressors could be more "hidden" in your body and harder to know when it is actually effecting your recovery than physical stress.

Physical and mental stress can release cortisol (stress hormone). I recently noticed morning, lunch and evening workouts were causing my fasted blood glucose to run outside normal range. I cut out evening sessions and it returned to normal. I thought it was diet and took high GI foods to nothing never thinking a along it was the training load of evening workouts.
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [Lucy Charles] [ In reply to ]
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Lucy Charles wrote:
Hi Fuzzyrunner (cool name)

This is a really great question; the answer, in my experience, is YES. Psychological stress can absolutely manifest into physical stress, and it can be measured to a degree. I often see changes in my HRV and sleep performance when stressed. My physio can tell if I’m stressed from the tension in my muscles. My performance (particularly swimming) is poor when I’m stressed. Reece can often tell through observation of my daily training and my mood; he often points out that maybe something needs to be changed or something is out of balance or that I just need to take a rest. Unfortunately, he was not around to observe the build-up of this particular situation.

We have set up an environment where stress is kept to a minimum. However, it’s impossible to avoid all the time.

Just want to say thank you for your replies. Very illuminating to have information shared from someone at the top of the sport.

Best of luck in a fast recovery.
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [Lucy Charles] [ In reply to ]
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Lucy Charles wrote:
Hi Fuzzyrunner (cool name)

This is a really great question; the answer, in my experience, is YES. Psychological stress can absolutely manifest into physical stress, and it can be measured to a degree. I often see changes in my HRV and sleep performance when stressed. My physio can tell if I’m stressed from the tension in my muscles. My performance (particularly swimming) is poor when I’m stressed. Reece can often tell through observation of my daily training and my mood; he often points out that maybe something needs to be changed or something is out of balance or that I just need to take a rest. Unfortunately, he was not around to observe the build-up of this particular situation.

We have set up an environment where stress is kept to a minimum. However, it’s impossible to avoid all the time.

In one sense, I'm really bummed for you as I know how it feels to not be able to exercise. My kids were volunteering at St. George and they were absolutely inspired when you ran by them. Excited to see you get back at it when you rest and heal up. There's plenty of time for continued world domination yet! I even think after a strategic rest period like this you'll come back stronger than ever.

I guess not being able to exercise for an extended period, is a good time to work on mental strengthening. Mediation and relaxation breathing techniques might be something to look at?

Best wishes to Reece too.
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [Ajax Bay] [ In reply to ]
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Ajax Bay wrote:
ThailandUltras wrote:
[On 12 March said on other thread] She is at home training hard....No secrets or conspiracy theories to excite the social media masses
Didn't age well. If you establish a reputation for feeding the SM masses, and then starve them, do not be surprised if there are 'withdrawal symptoms'.

21 Jan: (her vid) Intending to do the volcano tri on Lanzarote at the end of Feb....
End Feb: on Lanzarote (17 Mar) start list.
31 Mar: Only decided the hip was a problem a week ago.
Why not race Volcano Tri? Why not race Lanza? If not a problem till (say) 20 March.
Fair to assume that this has been troubling since mid Feb (latest). Finally "reached out to Red Bull" etc in mid March.
Thought this latest video was high on supplements and low on diet limitations and intolerances stuff.
Hope, with all the help and advice she mends as well as can be expected and gets back to fitness prudently.
Glad husband has all clear (assumed).


.
Since you are trying to play detective but clearly haven't looked at her social media..
March 12th Lucy was training hard at "The Pain Cave" (as she was in her Feb 24 post) and all was well..
...
"Friday smiles; with the pink bike & pink lights

Enjoying the process & seeing the gains"... Facebook
.
__________

On March 23 she announced her expanded partnership with Wahoo and was still training.
"I’m excited to announce that I’m expanding my partnership with @wahoofitnessofficial this year & will be working on even more projects with them going forward!
Get ready to see me smashing out sessions with the added help of the new Wahoo Elemnt Rival Watch and Powrlinkzero Pedals! "
Facebook
__________

On April 1st she released this video which clearly explains everything (and which clearly you didn't watch) including that the start of the year hasn't been a good one for her and Reece and that they have both been stressed with Reece's illness.
You seem to be looking for some kind of conspiracy .People in the public eye also have private lives and shit happens.

Last edited by: ThailandUltras: Apr 8, 22 13:27
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [Lucy Charles] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the response!

How are you measuring HRV? Is sleep performance based on a watch (technology) or just more on just your own observations? Do you feel your swim is the first to be impacted by stress? Unfortunately, I do not have a Reece to make outside observations about me haha. I'm sure it's very beneficial to have a partner that is in-the-know about performance and what to look for, from the outside, when it comes to your stress/fatigue.

I wish you the best of luck as you heal! I am JUST coming back from 2 months off because of some odd quad issue/strain. Am still wondering if some of my issue stemmed from more psychological stressors over physical.

Please keep us updated on your progress! Maybe swing by here during St. George race day thread and give us mortals some insights about the race through your eyes!
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [ThailandUltras] [ In reply to ]
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On a side note,Macca starts hinting at who "may" replace Lucy at the SUB8 challenge...A lot of people here don't like Macca but the guy has one of the best minds in the sport and I can (and have personally) listen to him talk triathlon for hours.

The LCB/SUB8 stuff starts at 42:30

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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [ThailandUltras] [ In reply to ]
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Great video posted today by the cb camp. As someone going through a sacrum hip stress fracture right now, I certainly was interested!

I’d be curious to understand how vitamin k2 levels influence bone density/calcium absorption. In my research, it’s just as important as vitamin d and calcium levels. I’m still doing research on this myself but didn’t hear that mentioned in the video.

Anyways, cool to see lucy engaging in the thread. Like she said in the video, pros are always walking that line of stress and recovery, and even with everything perfect (which they rarely are) these things can happen. Sounds like a lot of research has been done to make sure it won’t happen again. In the meantime, I look forward to following along in the recovery process. With no pain present, I’m still hopeful she’ll be in the pool shortly if not already.

Category 2 Road Cyclist w/ Aspiring Tri Ambitions | | My Strava Profile | | '22 AZ 70.3 | | Based in Phoenix, AZ
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [theyellowcarguy] [ In reply to ]
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Great effort to explain 'why'. Warning: fact and opinion in combination.
"The True Cause of my Injury | Learning to Run Again"

GWS and fit to race again, Lucy.
Last edited by: Ajax Bay: Jun 3, 22 12:28
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [Ajax Bay] [ In reply to ]
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Well said.
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [Ajax Bay] [ In reply to ]
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Beautiful facility. It would be a pleasure to workout daily in that gym. Not sure I’m buying the “I only breath to one side” theory. I do agree however with the biomechanic foot strike placement theory.
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [Bryan!] [ In reply to ]
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She has an IM tattoo.........

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [Bryan!] [ In reply to ]
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Bryan! wrote:
Beautiful facility. It would be a pleasure to workout daily in that gym. Not sure I’m buying the “I only breath to one side” theory. I do agree however with the biomechanic foot strike placement theory.

Ya, I find that kind of hard to believe myself. If this were really an issue, then lots of swimmers turned triathletes would have her same issue but AFAIK that is not the case per se. The whole reason I even bothered watching this video was b/c I wanted to see if they were actually talking about swimming breathing affecting running, which seems like a really big stretch IMO. :)


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [Bryan!] [ In reply to ]
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I only breath to one side...but I'm also not a world class open water swimmer or national class 1500 swimmer...

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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ericmulk wrote:
Bryan! wrote:
Beautiful facility. It would be a pleasure to workout daily in that gym. Not sure I’m buying the “I only breath to one side” theory. I do agree however with the biomechanic foot strike placement theory.


Ya, I find that kind of hard to believe myself. If this were really an issue, then lots of swimmers turned triathletes would have her same issue but AFAIK that is not the case per se. The whole reason I even bothered watching this video was b/c I wanted to see if they were actually talking about swimming breathing affecting running, which seems like a really big stretch IMO. :)

It may just be that she is carrying a bit of subtle assymmetry over and I think she mentions she has a scoliosis and on top of that, she is pretty new to running and does not have the base of a kid who grew up playing soccer or field hockey or track. She literally went from no running at all to running at a near world class triathlete level with not that many years of running base, so she is applying more force than most of us, on less base on higher weekly miles. She also did a lot of intensity short course racing last year so that probably was all new to her. So I think there is an element of truth to her swimmer asymmetry compounding events leading to her stress fracture.
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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ericmulk wrote:
Bryan! wrote:
Beautiful facility. It would be a pleasure to workout daily in that gym. Not sure I’m buying the “I only breath to one side” theory. I do agree however with the biomechanic foot strike placement theory.

Ya, I find that kind of hard to believe myself. If this were really an issue, then lots of swimmers turned triathletes would have her same issue but AFAIK that is not the case per se. The whole reason I even bothered watching this video was b/c I wanted to see if they were actually talking about swimming breathing affecting running, which seems like a really big stretch IMO. :)

It’s interesting as I pretty much had the same injury as her a few years ago. I swam in college and typically breathe to one side. Occasionally I breathe to the other but it’s probably an 80/20 or 70/30 split. I don’t think this caused my injury but it definitely affects my run form and muscle activation. I’ve always felt my one side is asymmetric while running and it’s something I am constantly thinking about during my runs.

blog
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Re: Lucy Charles Hip Stress Fracture [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
ericmulk wrote:
Bryan! wrote:
Beautiful facility. It would be a pleasure to workout daily in that gym. Not sure I’m buying the “I only breath to one side” theory. I do agree however with the biomechanic foot strike placement theory.


Ya, I find that kind of hard to believe myself. If this were really an issue, then lots of swimmers turned triathletes would have her same issue but AFAIK that is not the case per se. The whole reason I even bothered watching this video was b/c I wanted to see if they were actually talking about swimming breathing affecting running, which seems like a really big stretch IMO. :)


It may just be that she is carrying a bit of subtle assymmetry over and I think she mentions she has a scoliosis and on top of that, she is pretty new to running and does not have the base of a kid who grew up playing soccer or field hockey or track. She literally went from no running at all to running at a near world class triathlete level with not that many years of running base, so she is applying more force than most of us, on less base on higher weekly miles. She also did a lot of intensity short course racing last year so that probably was all new to her. So I think there is an element of truth to her swimmer asymmetry compounding events leading to her stress fracture.

Good points, I'll stand corrected then.


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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