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Long bike recommendations
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Okay -- so I've finally confirmed with help of Jim M that my current bike (Speedmax SLX slide medium) is too short for me. We've gotten it to "fit" with a longer stem and some extra brackets to move the pads further forward, but the result is my elbows are literately in front of my front wheel's hub and the bike handles like a forklift (bad!).

I need a LONG bike, so that I can accommodate my long torso/arms and short legs. I'm still waiting for Jim to send me my fit report, but I think we're looking at around 500-520mm of reach, 600-620mm of pad stack (could probably go lower).

Here is my old fit thread: https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...0too%20high#p6964186

What are the longest bikes out there right now? Price doesn't matter. I'd kind of prefer to stick with rim brakes because they're easier to live with and I feel more comfortable servicing them myself, but that's secondary to my top three criteria.

Criteria are 1) fit, 2) handling, 3) travels well

Update: Got my fit sheet. My exact numbers are: 550 reach (to middle of pad, 510 to back of pad), 640 stack. Saddle height 810.
Last edited by: wintershade: Oct 19, 19 8:25
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Re: Long bike recommendations [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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I can make you a custom beryllium frame. Price starts at $68K.
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Re: Long bike recommendations [jimatbeyond] [ In reply to ]
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That sounds pretty cool actually.

Maybe a custom Parlee is the answer? I just don't know if they sell them to non-dentists.
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Re: Long bike recommendations [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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Plasma 6 definitely the longest, but you can't get it yet and it has discs
It's hard to find bikes that will match the length of the old Cervelos.
Cube Aerium would be a strong contender
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Re: Long bike recommendations [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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Check out the Premier, I am all torso, so I ordered a Premier myself and should be delivered any day.
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Re: Long bike recommendations [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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BMC TM01 with Flat Bar cockpit, I can send you the TM01 fit data to your email.
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Re: Long bike recommendations [mike s] [ In reply to ]
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I have the same problem and my current bike handles like garbage. I'm thinking the new argon e118 would work well.
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Re: Long bike recommendations [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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I am curious how many people are in this situation. I recently had a fit from Dave L and we ended up on the fit bike with a pad reach of 545 and pad stack of 565. I was able to get my Wilier Blade to 520 reach, 565 stack through some parts changes on the front end, and after comparing the videos of the 520 vs 545 it looked better that way anyway. That said, if you put 520 reach, 565 stack onto any bike size chart, its WAY off to the bottom right of the chart and no bike really fits that.
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Re: Long bike recommendations [g_lev] [ In reply to ]
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g_lev wrote:
I am curious how many people are in this situation. I recently had a fit from Dave L and we ended up on the fit bike with a pad reach of 545 and pad stack of 565. I was able to get my Wilier Blade to 520 reach, 565 stack through some parts changes on the front end, and after comparing the videos of the 520 vs 545 it looked better that way anyway. That said, if you put 520 reach, 565 stack onto any bike size chart, its WAY off to the bottom right of the chart and no bike really fits that.

That is the position I'm in now. I have a stack of 564 and my XS e119 reach is maxed out at 505. I've added the 51 speedshop arm rests to add a little extra reach to that. I would love to get out to 530 for my reach, but there doesn't seem to be very many options for short legged long torso folks. Hell, my saddle height is only 640.
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Re: Long bike recommendations [g_lev] [ In reply to ]
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I would imagine quite a few, given I'm running into this issue and I'm only 5'11".

Here is what I find so perplexing -- when you compare the Medium and Large of most manufactures, the Large is only a little bit longer but A LOT higher than the Medium. For example, looking at the Argon, the max reach of the Large is only 50mm longer than Medium, but the min stack is 230mm higher. It just makes no sense. The Medium is 100mm longer but only 150mm taller. The standover height on many of these Large/Tall frames is also a nutbuster.

I don't need my TT bike to handle like my nimble crit machine, but I fear all these bikes are going to handle like crap if I'm nearly at max reach.

Related question: I assume handling will feel more natural if your pads are less pedestal (i.e., fit is near the low end of min stack, vs the higher end?)
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Re: Long bike recommendations [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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This is the closest thing I can find these days for us. Stand over height could be rough though.
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Re: Long bike recommendations [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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wintershade wrote:
I would imagine quite a few, given I'm running into this issue and I'm only 5'11".

Here is what I find so perplexing -- when you compare the Medium and Large of most manufactures, the Large is only a little bit longer but A LOT higher than the Medium. For example, looking at the Argon, the max reach of the Large is only 50mm longer than Medium, but the min stack is 230mm higher. It just makes no sense. The Medium is 100mm longer but only 150mm taller. The standover height on many of these Large/Tall frames is also a nutbuster.

I don't need my TT bike to handle like my nimble crit machine, but I fear all these bikes are going to handle like crap if I'm nearly at max reach.

Related question: I assume handling will feel more natural if your pads are less pedestal (i.e., fit is near the low end of min stack, vs the higher end?)

I think in many cases, trying to get super long and low is going to mean going with a bike that comes close to fitting and doesn't use an integrated front end. That way you can put on your own cockpit with a long stem, and just deal with the fact that it handles like a truck.

That's funny as I am only 5'7" and now am riding at 520 reach/565 stack. My saddle is at 723mm and I am running 155mm crank arms to get there. The bike handles reasonably well for a tri bike, however whenever I get on my road bike I am reminded just how much like a tank the tri bike handles.
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Re: Long bike recommendations [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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wintershade wrote:
Related question: I assume handling will feel more natural if your pads are less pedestal (i.e., fit is near the low end of min stack, vs the higher end?)

It would make no difference at all.

Front-center is the length value you want to focus on. What makes you think it will be hard to get 500-520mm of pad reach with 600-620mm stack?
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Re: Long bike recommendations [g_lev] [ In reply to ]
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g_lev wrote:
wintershade wrote:
I would imagine quite a few, given I'm running into this issue and I'm only 5'11".

Here is what I find so perplexing -- when you compare the Medium and Large of most manufactures, the Large is only a little bit longer but A LOT higher than the Medium. For example, looking at the Argon, the max reach of the Large is only 50mm longer than Medium, but the min stack is 230mm higher. It just makes no sense. The Medium is 100mm longer but only 150mm taller. The standover height on many of these Large/Tall frames is also a nutbuster.

I don't need my TT bike to handle like my nimble crit machine, but I fear all these bikes are going to handle like crap if I'm nearly at max reach.

Related question: I assume handling will feel more natural if your pads are less pedestal (i.e., fit is near the low end of min stack, vs the higher end?)


I think in many cases, trying to get super long and low is going to mean going with a bike that comes close to fitting and doesn't use an integrated front end. That way you can put on your own cockpit with a long stem, and just deal with the fact that it handles like a truck.

That's funny as I am only 5'7" and now am riding at 520 reach/565 stack. My saddle is at 723mm and I am running 155mm crank arms to get there. The bike handles reasonably well for a tri bike, however whenever I get on my road bike I am reminded just how much like a tank the tri bike handles.

WHS.

On my P3C I'm having to use a 110mm stem with 3T Brezza bars: used to have the Ventus but the reach was far too short. Bike handles fine.

If you stick to an integrated bar/stem the only way is to somehow move the pads forward to the extreme which IMHO is a botch job rather than moving the whole front end forward with a longer stem.
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Re: Long bike recommendations [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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Felt Da? If you buy a bayo 3 fork version you can get even more reach with the long stem option. The bayo 4 version only comes with a 90mm stem where the 3 has an option for a 110. I'm running 500ish (don't recall off the top of my head) pad reach on a 51 frame with the longer stem.

Grabbed my notebook:
Pad reach: 487BOP/535MOP
Pad Stack: 598

So, it looks like a 51cm Felt DA with a boynet 4 and 90mm 0Âş rise stem would hit your numbers easy. Lots of seatpost in that bad boy too.

ETA : my fit numbers

My YouTubes

Last edited by: LAI: Oct 19, 19 9:55
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Re: Long bike recommendations [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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I have the same problem, and took a long way to work on my bike to fit me. the options that would have worked for me are:

Integrated:
- Best: BMC (TM01 with flat bar and Profile Design Evo bracket for tilt, do not even consider the M/S sized one), Cannondale Super Slice (no tilt), Specialized Shiv TT new one (this bike only gets longer but not taller as size progresses), Specialized Shiv Tri new one (no tilt)
- OK but pushing the fit range: Cervelo P5 / P3X, Felt IA (but with the dagger stem only), Trek SC (technically in the not recommended range)

Traditional stem:
- Most flexibility
- Either add a -25 degree 120mm stem (a short -25 stem doesn't do much to stack but a long -25 degree stem also drops your stack a good 10-15mm)
- Use a standard 31.8 aerobar that supports a long pad forward position (Zipp Vuka Aero 2019, Profile Design Aeria Ultimate, Vision Trimax 2019, Look Aergo, Enve)
- Or use a standard aerobar with Profile Design Subsonic or with Zipp Vuka undermount

Best Bikes for bit with traditional stem to get long and low
- Best: BMC TM02 (Lowest and longest, but there have been multiple reports of fork snapping at the stem region on this very forum, so it wouldn't make me feel comfortable putting a long lever on it)
- OK: Quintana Roo PRFive, Orbea Ordu OMP, Cervelo P3, Felt IA

You can also look into Tririg Alpha, Vision Metron TFA and Profile Design Aeria Ultimate with its own stem. The TriRig was too short for me. The vision and profile design would have the pad bracket sticking out behind the pad in the extreme forward position, so I chose to get my reach with stem instead

I also preferred the traditional stem option because it also pushes the basebar forward, so I was also more comfortable when I have to get out of aero.

FYI, I am shorter than you, so you might have more or fewer options. I was looking for a solution for (Stack 570-580, Reach to back of pad 470+). I am not in a super aggressive position. Running a mid-stubby saddle and still behind BB. I just have hobbit legs for my height. I am running a bike with 120mm stem and pads all the way forward. Handling is not that bad, as long as you are not expecting road bike snappiness. For me at least, in a TT position, seat position have a larger impact on handling (how much weight I still have on the rear)

On a rant, my first bike fit had the fitter put my stack and reach at stack 640, reach to back of pad 370. A second retul fit put me at stack 600, reach to back of pad at 440. I was never comfortable wit either fit until I stretched myself further. Wouldn't have been possible with an integrated bike. In conclusion, I believe that non-integrated bikes are the way to go unless you have a fit dialed in already.

Adding a possible solution (not sure where your bike fit stands). I like to run a narrow arm position. My TT position (non-Tri) puts my arms close enough that a bottle won't fit in between. I found that I can tolerate a shorter reach if I space out the pads apart further. So for me, there is also a relationship between my arm width and reach preference. I can make a short reached bike work if I adopt a wider stance.
Last edited by: bloodyshogun: Oct 19, 19 20:38
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Re: Long bike recommendations [bloodyshogun] [ In reply to ]
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Wow, thanks a ton for all that information. I really appreciate it.

Jim suggested an IA or SC, both of which have the advantage of allowing me to stick with rim brakes. But I’ll take a hard look at the new Shiv Disc. I really like that bike. The BMC won’t work for me I don’t think based on some X/Y tables shared by another member here.
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Re: Long bike recommendations [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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Do you have the excel table from "mike s" from the forum? Just mentioning because I was surprised when you said it won't fit you and double checked it.

It got two fit coordinates. One with the V cockpit and one with the Flat cockpit. Size Large can easily accommodate Stack 640 and reach 510 (back of pad) with the flat cockpit. Size M/L can accommodate the same with the V cockpit. I think the flat cockpit is better because I just don't like the V cockpit.

Of course the Specialized is a fantastic bike with stronger dealer support (in my experience at least).

With the speed concept, I think you'd have to use the "full range" to get your fit coordinates. I ran into the same range, and decided not to pursue that. I don't remember the difference between the 3 pad ranges Trek uses in their fit guide (1. Mid-pad, 2 Pad range, 3. Full range).. Mitch from Trek on this forum can probably help you with that if you want to check.

Felt has a fit calculator https://cdn.shopify.com/...ulator_V5_p.xlsx?461 . It's awesome. Within IA / IA disc, when stem says 31.8, it means the dagger stem (-16 degree, 110mm). With the IAx bikes, integrated means the IAx's default -6 degree 90mm stem. I believe you can swap out the IAx's stem for just about any stem (but I am not sure).

Below are the fit coordinates for BMC Size Large with flat cockpit. Reach is measured as to rear of pad


Last edited by: bloodyshogun: Oct 19, 19 21:26
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Re: Long bike recommendations [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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I'm in a similar boat, but even more extreme. I'm at 630 pad stack and 540mm reach (I think that was to back of pad, btw). I was able to get that long and low on my P5 with a PD Aeria stem which is 100mm and only 12 mm stack, and then with under- mounted extensions on 3T Vola bars which add between 20-30mm depending on cup/pads. The longest and lowest bikes I saw when I was looking last:

Look 796 size L-LX: 565 min stack and 560 max reach
SuperSlice 56cm: 590/573
SuperSlice 58cm: 610/581
Cube L: 595/558
Trek XL with low-far stem is in your fit range
P5x L and XL can both hit your numbers
Canyon in a Large should hit your numbers, especially with the longer stem option
Colnago, Ceepo, Andean, Omni, and many others should work with a 100mm stem, easily.

The more I go down my Excel sheet, the more I think your issue is that the bike was a seize medium, not the model. Most of the modern bikes can hit your coordinates.
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Re: Long bike recommendations [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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Given you have tilted bars now I'm going to work on that basis - the BMC TM01 won't work for you with the Evo Tilt bracket


The non tilting bracket (Aeria 1) works for X as it can be turned around. Of course, you could use the A1 bracket and bodge it with wedges.

Looking at some of the other bikes Mr Shogun mentioned (I made a handy tool for this sort of thing)


You can see that while the Ordu has greater frame X, the BMC has a slacker HTA that pushes the front centre out. COmbined with the shorter chainstays that makes it more likely to be stable for your config - plus it has lower frame Y.

Old Specialized Shiv TT is good if you want rim brakes - very long and low - you would be stacked up significantly
Pushing a speedconcept that far forward means that the mono extension isn't long enough so you have to get the plug in bracket

As I mentioned above - the Cube Aerium would be the best integrated bike for you
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Re: Long bike recommendations [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks. I'll take a look at the Cube. I've actually never seen one for sale here in the US, but will do some investigating.

I wonder if the new Shiv Disc would fit and if I'd be a better fit on the M or L? Here are the numbers on the geometry.

For an IA with dagger stem, the Felt's excel tool seems to think I'm a 56 w/ a standard 38 stem (in the IA10), but I wonder if I'd be a 56 or 58 with the dagger stem.

I've heard the SC handles a lot like a road bike, and I like that I could get it custom painted, but I don't like how hard it is to hide the Di2 and I worry that putting me on an XL with some special mono-extenion system puts me outside where the bike was designed to be fit. Yes you can make it work, like my Canyon, but is it really optimal?

One thing I do worry about on all these super big bikes is standover height. I only have a 860mm inseam. That's why I didn't get the Canyon Large originally, the standover higher is >860mm.

How much nut clearance does once comfortably need? 3cm?
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Re: Long bike recommendations [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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I'm with rruff on this one... what makes you think you'd need some sort of "long" bike with those fit coordinates?

with a Pad Stack of 640 and a Pad Reach of 500 to back of pads you're in the long and low quadrant of a 58cm P5d, with the ability to get 10mm longer and 30mm lower with the stock mono-riser and quite a bit more with the EX-10 tiltable mono-riser.

You'd definitely fit on a Trek Speed Concept, Size L with a Low/Far stem, also a very fast bike.

I could go on.

If you're looking for interesting solutions you could do what I did, build up a Cervelo P4... it is so choice, if you have the means I highly recommend picking one up.

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
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Re: Long bike recommendations [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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ericMPro wrote:
.. it is so choice, if you have the means I highly recommend picking one up.

I really enjoyed this reference, thanks for cheering me up on a dreary Monday Eric.
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Re: Long bike recommendations [knighty76] [ In reply to ]
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knighty76 wrote:
ericMPro wrote:
.. it is so choice, if you have the means I highly recommend picking one up.

I really enjoyed this reference, thanks for cheering me up on a dreary Monday Eric.

:)

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
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Re: Long bike recommendations [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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Standover height is mostly for beginners who are still learning how to ride a bike.

Since you already know how to ride, you aren't really planting both feet down.... almost ever. And you'll naturally lean the bike for clearance. Check out cyclecross bikes from the 90s with toestraps and horizontal top tubes (very high BB clearance because of toe strap and very high standover). Surely not ideal (aesthetically or as a just in case measure), but not an issue if you know what you are doing. I have ridden plenty of crit bikes where standover is taller than my inseam.

On the Felt tool, if you are looking at the IA (not the IAx), the 31.8mm option is the dagger stem. IA10 would be under IAx, and it would only show integrated (since you say you see 31.8mm, I am sure you are looking at the single digit IA and not the IA10). The wording for IAx is misleading, it says integrated, but it means a standard -6 degree 90mm stem.

But if you are concerned, a TT focused bike (such as Specialized Shiv TT) would be your best bet (But I think it doesn't have tilt). Fit wise, Cervelo P5D or P3x with P3x hardware will probably the best (as Eric mentioned). I think you'll end up dropping your stack a bit.

And here's a picture of Patrick Lange next to his bike.



and see how much seatpost Jennifer Spieldenner is working with. FYI, this is pretty common in late 90s when bikes had horizontal tubes and long reach (vs. low stack) dominated fit philosophy








wintershade wrote:


One thing I do worry about on all these super big bikes is standover height. I only have a 860mm inseam. That's why I didn't get the Canyon Large originally, the standover higher is >860mm.

How much nut clearance does once comfortably need? 3cm?
Last edited by: bloodyshogun: Oct 22, 19 6:20
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