You can still buy a Felt DA frame and build it up. I have short legs/long torso so I'm in the same boat. I can't ride most of today's offerings...not enough reach.

Can you get us your desired pad x,y coordinates?

While there certainly are bikes that are long and low and high and short, in my experience, a good cockpit can easily negate small geometry differences. My first tri bike was a 61cm p3c that I rode in a very long position. I'm 6'3" and a bit more torso than legs (not anything crazy disproportionate though). After a few years of that bike, I ended up on a Ceepo Shadow-R which only came in a large and had about 20mm less reach than the Cervelo. The added forward adjustment of the Vision Metron TFA cockpit allowed me to easily get into a plenty long position, and that's even with a fixed stem. Basically the same story with my current Omni and the Alpha One bars. The large Omni has the same reach as the Shadow-R, but the Alpha One has an even better adjustment range, especially when coupled with the Scoops which add a few extra rear holes for even more forward adjustment. Note how stretched out I am and still comfortable with better handling than any of my previous bikes.

So I guess my thoughts are that as much as I loved my p3c, at the time that bike was popular, cockpits were significantly more limiting and frame stack and reach mattered a lot more. 12 years later, I'm guessing a good fitter could get nearly any brand of bike to fit anyone, with the right cockpit. There would for sure be tradeoffs with some of the harder to fit bikes though.

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Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors

Unrelated to OP, but I have heard, from a very reputable fitter, that Canyons are notorious for not working for a sizeable portion of people. Alternatively, I think the SC is pretty adaptable to all bodies.

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@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri

The new Orbea can handle a long position as the new Scott plasma 6 and the P5disc with the EX10 cockpit also. Ku Cycle TF1 rider specfic frame built

Jeroen

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Owner at TRIPRO, The Netherlands

I have a Speed Concept in size medium. I’m 5’8” and have a long torso, relatively speaking, and I’m at the outer edge for length. I have the low / far stem and have the cockpit as far forward as it’ll go. It works for me, but just barely.

I’d like to try the praying mantis position but the cockpit doesn’t rotate up far enough, at least with the stock bars.

https://www.velogicfit.com/frame-comparison

Fantastic tool.

Longest and lowest I can find similar to original P3C are Kuota.

I ride a P3C long and low, and am officially an "alien" as per one of Dan's old fit articles. I'm the 575/510 guy.

https://www.slowtwitch.com/...for_Aliens_5843.html

I would struggle to make my position using stock integrated parts on many modern bikes, including the new Cervelos with their granny geometry. Occasionally I would have to tit about with changing out for generic parts, thus defeating the point of getting a nice super bike with an integrated aero front end in the first place. The above article has some suggestions about what could work or get me close, but based on my own research (and what I will probably buy next) the higher tier Canyon bikes work for me. Some of the lower tier speedmax have taller geometry (I think) but the CF SLX for example is pretty long and low, from memory.

Cheers, Rich.

Edit to add, Ben (Deal) makes some good points above about modern aero cockpits with superior forward adjustability. Probably easier to make bikes work and still have a nice aero front end than it was whenever I last looked at options.

Agree on speed concept I ride a 54 p3 (2010) and current medium Trek. I have the mono plug in pushed out nearly as far as I can go but the pads can be flipped forward more and wing reversed if I wanted more reach. Dare say the reach will work for 99% people particularly if you get the mono plug in. I ride an adamo with only 20mmset back so ride fairly steep and forward too.

there are 2 considerations:

1. fit
2. weight displacement

when it comes to fit, here is the bad news for you: there's been a move toward, not away, from a consensus geometry. for me (for example) it's a frame stack of 540mm and a frame reach of about 425mm. what is not uniform is what that bike size is called. it's either a 54cm, a 56cm, a M or an L. all those are used by various brands for that size. but there's not a lot of bikes lower than that 540mm stack, for a guy 6' to 6'2".

the happy news is that the frame geometry is not really that big a deal, because there's way, way more variance in how the aerobars adjust. your options occur inside of a rectangle or parallelogram for every size. the "sides" of that rectangle are how close in, and how stretched out, that bike will adjust for you, and the top and bottom of the rectangle is how low and how high the bike will adjust. what you are looking for is a bike that has the bottom of the rectangle low enough so that your armrest position is available. you might have 2 bikes built on a chassis that i just described, 540mm x 425mm, and one might have the lowest available pad height at 625mm and another may go down to 575mm, because it's got a front end designed to go quite low. so, don't look first at frame geometry. look at the rectangle (or parallelogram) and see if you can not only go down low enough, but that you get there somewhere close to midway between the near and far vertical sides of the parallelogram.

then there's weight displacement, front to rear. if you get a really small bike, so that you can get low enough, that bike might not have a very good weight displacement. for example, BB to front wheel axle - called front center - i want a certain distance there. not too short, not too long. i don't want to ride a unicycle, and i don't want to ride a tractor trailer. a front center between 610mm at the shortest, 635mm at the longest, that sits the front wheel underneath me pretty well.

you shouldn't have trouble finding what you want. ask LAI on the forum. he's got a really low position. also, cyclenutnz has some of these parallelograms he can show you, that shoe the available sizing options, both with profile design bars (like the subsonic) and for bikes that make their own bars.

but in general, a canyon speedmax CF, with a subsonic, that is a low bike. that's the entry level bike, and the new disc brake and old rim brake both have the subsonic. there are issues with adjusting the subsonic on that bike we can talk about, but that's a long-low geometry bike with a low-position aerobar, and i suspect that bike - if they have any in stock - is a real deal right now, if you get the rim brake version.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Quintana Roo PRSix is also long & low geometry.

Use it soon! I seem to recall a recent email that the Tri bike portion of the site won’t continue much longer.

As I understand it that's just for the bike finder. I don't see why frame comparison would lose tri bikes. It's just a database lookup
The bike finder is much harder for them to maintain with me gone and tri bikes are the most complicated part of that.

Ahh that could be. You introduced me to that site and I love it!

on what basis do you say that? as i wrote above, there is a sort of consensus geometry, and the trek speed concept, felt IA, PR series, all the cervelos, they're basically the same frame geometry. if there is something about that front end that adjusts low - and i don't know what that might be - then okay. otherwise, i would call it a very good geometry - i love that way that bike rides - but unless there's something i'm missing it's a middle of the road geometry.

now, the CD0.1? yup. long and low.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I ride a P5 that is slammed and stretched. 610mm pad stack to top and ~520-530mm reach to back of pad. I would also prefer a longer bike so that I wouldn't need a long negative angle stem and have pads/extensions so far forward.

Turns out there's not much out there for us anymore. Canyon was one of the long/low bikes but the new disc bike is not that.

The Plasma 6, Supra-R Spinal, Parlee, Cube, and SuperSlice are the longest and lowest bikes left on the market, in order. The first two by quite a bit, over 20mm+ lower and longer. The latter are only marginally longer/lower.

I always felt the same way as a fitter... long and low frame hindered by high stack short reach cockpit choices.

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Wow, I always thought the higher tier Canyon Speedmax was still long and low but your post made me go and have a look at the geo for the new models. They have followed everybody else into the sit up and beg with a basket full of groceries design. Sigh.

One small consolation - the listed pad reach is to the back of the pad and not the centre. But still..

You are no longer with velogicfit? I thought it was your company, sold it?

Jeroen

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Owner at TRIPRO, The Netherlands

Sold our shares to the other shareholders. I'm not involved at all now. Trying to have some time getting my work life balance sorted and get fit enough to race well.

Been charting new disc bikes and you weren't kidding. Orbea is longer and lower than even Cervelo with EX10. And you can add another 10mm+ reach to the Orbea number by changing out the Vision arm cups with ones that have bolt holes closer to the edge

No, I wasn't joking. That new bike is really long and low and even longer in reach whgen you swap the pads as you suggest.

Jeroen

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Owner at TRIPRO, The Netherlands

With other pads, it's the next longest-lowest option after Scott, at half the frameset cost (US$7000 vs $3800)

I have a 2013 DA with the 110 / 0° stem. I hate that they only offer the 90 on the bayonet 4.