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Re: Lionel going to for the Canadian Hour Record [marcag] [ In reply to ]
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marcag wrote:
Slowman wrote:


there's aero, and then there's aero. if you look at a lot of pro cyclists in time trials - contador comes to mind as a very notable example during his career - they fidget constantly while aboard their aero bikes. so, aero when? at what snapshot point during the ride? what i like about lionel's position now is that it's a no-fidget posture. i think we saw that yesterday, and the hour is the prototypical race where you can't fidget. there was some upper body movement, when he was trying to get some english on the pedals, but his keister was nailed to the saddle, in one spot, the whole ride. this is (imho) the real world aerodynamics that is sometimes overlooked. if you've got 3 different positions on the bike, and you only display 1 to your aerodynamicist, you're fooling him and yourself, but you're not fooling the wind or the clock.


thank you. That is an excellent point.

You posted old and new pics. Aside the obvious arm positions, what do you see that I don't ? When I say I don't, I'm blind as a bat on these things. I'm the guy where you need to find the 7 differences between two pictures and I can't find one.

two things have to match. that you have to get correct. hips position over the BB (seat angle); and cockpit distance (the distance from the saddle to the aerobars and extensions, most notably seen through the shoulder angle).

if your cockpit distance is correct, but your saddle is too slack, you'll move forward to correct the bad seat angle, but that cramps the cockpit. so, you push back. if your saddle is correctly positioned but your cockpit is too long, you'll creep forward until you correct the cockpit distance. but now your saddle is too far forward, and you push back. i have stuck the name "typewriter" onto this phenomenon, where - to fix either of these problems - the rider types, types types, carriage return; types, types, carriage return.

sometimes there are other reasons for fidgeting on the saddle. mostly, just an uncomfortable saddle. but if the saddle is more or less comfortable or at least livable, then you need to not only get the saddle position right, but the cockpit distance right. if you do, then you won't be moving constantly fore/aft. in the first image of lionel, the cockpit distance was too long, during that particular snapshot where he was caught by the camera. something was off. but if you watched him ride yesterday, nothing was off. really, over the last 18 months or so, he's looked pretty darned good on the bike. but never so good to my eye as he looked yesterday, and i hope this whole exercise, besides being a lot of fun for him, informs his road riding as well. now, his road bike position? during his lemmon climbs? that's a different story.

the one question i guess i would have is whether he applied for an ME, and which one? i would guess saddle nose? 1.3.013? this constrained his 1.3.023 to 75cm (it cropped his available cockpit position). i wonder if this was part of why he looked so compact. but he already looked pretty compact in his most recent tri bike rides over the past year.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Lionel going to for the Canadian Hour Record [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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synthetic wrote:
since this was mentioned in this thread, his 5k "PR" was done in what exact version of skecher shoes?

Ugh, looks like Speed Elite...but just don't go there and let this rather impressive fall project shine for a bit.

DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!
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Re: Lionel going to for the Canadian Hour Record [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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No need to apply for an ME, you get one without question. I believe he was taking the reach exemption, which virtually everyone does when using a split-nose saddle. Even our shortest track and TT athletes, some of whom are barely scaping 5' tall, take the reach exemption, and take it all the way out to 80. No need not to do so.

Jim Manton / ERO Sports
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Re: Lionel going to for the Canadian Hour Record [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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24 hours on - here's my thoughts.

I'm going to stay away from the technical discussion, the data, the numbers and leave all of that to those who are far more adept at this than I am.

As an an Announcer and Commentator, who works a fair number of top level races/events in a Calendar year in running, track & field, cycling and triathlon - from National Championships, to World Cups and World Championships, and the occasional National and sometimes World Record - What I had the pleasure of witnessing yesterday in person was one of those TRULY extraordinary and exceptional athletic performances!

Context as always is important Lionel had only been on the track and riding at this level of intensity 5 - 6 times. THIS is not his environment. It's NOT his space. Those that had done this before, and gone this far, have been World Class Road Cyclists and/or Track Specialists - who have spent may be hundreds of hours circling velodrome tracks, getting it all dialed in and nailed down!

Like many things that he has done - it's all a bit unorthodox and unusual - it's the Lionel way!

Before an effort like this, the warm-up is critical. World Class Pursuit Cyclists and Time-Trialers would spend probably about 45 minutes to an hour, riding the rollers and the trainer getting revved up and ready to go. Lionel showed up with about 15 - 20 minutes before the scheduled start time, chatted briefly with his Team, and the broadcast team, donned his skin suit, had his bike measured up by the Head UCI Commissaire one last time, and headed out on the track for what seemed to me like about a 10 min warm-up!! That's it!

Perhaps the BIGGEST concern of the day was the Start. According to UCI regs, he had to use the pneumatic Starting Block. He had only practiced using the Starting Block a few times. To push a 61 x 13 gear away, from this Starting Block is super tricky! I have seen World Class Track cyclists in the Pursuit and Team Sprint Starts, botch it up and fall flat on their face! Lionel wobbled a bit, but other than that, was able to pull away and get the bike up to a reasonable speed, in about a half a lap, and then settle in.

The first 10 - 15 mins is more important than many think. With the usual taper, a good warm-up, there is a tendency to feel like Superman in this time, and go out too hard. Lionel, showed amazing discipline, and patience and held back for the first number of laps, and it was not maybe until about the 5 min mark or a bit further in, that he was up to 51+ km/h. From then on, he was an absolute metronome, knocking out lap after lap within a couple of tenths of a second of each. We were following the lap times, but as you may have heard in the post-ride interview, they were meaningless to him - he wanted Kilometer splits, which Erin his wife was giving to him on a whiteboard!

I know there has been SO much discussion with his position, but to my less than expert eye - it actually looked pretty good. I was backed up by this afterwards by Cervelo Co-Founder, and now President of 4iiii, Phil White, who said he liked what he saw - still some work to be done - but overall, better, and not too bad! My co-commentator Ed Veal, the previous Canadian One Hour Record Holder, and himself a former top-ranked Pursuit rider (Bronze Medal in the Team Pursuit at the 2015 Pan Am Games), said Lionel was moving around a bit more than, he would have liked to have seen - but again, context, becomes key - 5 to 6 times on the track, and Lionel was pushing a much bigger gear, than others who have done this - so more body movement perhaps expected.

The time went by quickly, as I suspected it would, and suddenly we were at the 45 min mark, and Lionel was still knocking out the 17.5 sec laps, again, and again, and again! My thoughts were then, he's going to do this, and he was now after the third of his three goals (1. Break current record. 2. Go beyond 50km. 3. Surpass Jen's Voight's standard - the first of the new Unified UCI Records). The challenge with the bigger gear, lower RPM choice is you have zero wiggle room, when things start to go south on you, and when you can't stay on top of the gear, the blow-up comes, quickly!! But with each minute completed, past the 45 min mark, I felt more and more that we were going to be witnessing some history shortly!

Then he was past the Canadian Record and then past the 50km mark, and now the final count-down began . . . . and then the clock stopped and the distance was, a phenomenal 51.3 km! With the fixed gear it takes a lap or more to bring the bike back down to a pedestrian pace. Some who have done this, (The great Eddy Merckx) have had to be physically helped off the bike, or they have fallen off, or been left hanging on to the inside rail/fence of the track's infield - completely incapacitated. Lionel rolled around to the Start and Commentating location, hopped off the bike, himself and in the matter of a minute composed enough to do the interview that you all saw! Most world class riders ounce recovered, would have headed straight to the rollers for a warm-down. Lionel did no formal warm-down from what I saw. His only complaint to me, was when he walked down the stairs from the track to the infield, past where Ed and were working, he said "my quads are a bit sore"! :-)

There will probably lot's of talk and there already has bee, of, "What's next" In a three-way conversation that I had with Phil White and Ed Veal, shortly after we finished, given what we saw, and Lionel's lack of experience, some fine tuning of the position, and perhaps a trip to the Aquacalientes, Velodrome in Mexico, at altitude, and he could go much further! But again, context is key - next up is the PTO/Challenge Daytona race, where Lionel is going in, clearly in the absolute BEST bike/run fitness of his life and then the UCI eSports World Championships which will be raced on Zwift, where one hour FTP is King and Lionel just showed, absolutely that he's in the best shape of his life for One Hour Power/FTP!

Thank you to the true wizards behind this production - Talbot Cox (working remotely and from afar) and Greg McFadden (many don't know Greg at all, but you've all seen his outstanding camera work in Post IRONMAN Race Videos and from the IRONMAN World Championships).

Thank you to Canyon, Gatorade, Zwift, and Freshii for their partnership.

Thank you to my Co-Commentator Ed Veal - He is the Real Deal, and knows this kind of cycling inside out and it was particularly poignant, as the existing Record Holder to have him involved.

Finally thank you to everyone who did watch and for the many kind words and compliments that came my way. I felt a bit rusty, to be honest. It was particularly special for me, in this upside down year, as this, and last weekend's commentary for FloBikes of the Women's Tour of Flanders, were my first bits of real work in over 7 months! Hopefully we have started the long road back to some level of normalcy!

That's it for from me! Be well. Stay safe and stay healthy!


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Last edited by: Fleck: Oct 24, 20 10:59
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Re: Lionel going to for the Canadian Hour Record [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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i don't know if it's hard for multisporters to give it all, or if it's just a function of how they're built. i got so tired of hearing how 650c wheels on were slow, that i had liz downing buy a USCF license (in 1990), i drove her out to moriarty, and she broke the women's 40km american women's national record by a minute and a half, in her first, last and only USCF race.

all the other riders, men, women, would literally get to the end, some of them, falling over, or needing someone to keep them upright while they dismounted. foaming. throwing up. looked like they were all dying. and lizzy crossed the finish, stopped, dismounted, and asked, "how'd i do?"

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Lionel going to for the Canadian Hour Record [dfru] [ In reply to ]
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dfru wrote:
synthetic wrote:
since this was mentioned in this thread, his 5k "PR" was done in what exact version of skecher shoes?

Ugh, looks like Speed Elite...but just don't go there and let this rather impressive fall project shine for a bit.

I must, mechanical doping assist shoes speed you up 30-60 seconds in a 5k. So she adjusting time, he didn't PR, as you shouldn't with aging and a focus on long distance
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Re: Lionel going to for the Canadian Hour Record [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Fleck wrote:
24 hours on - here's my thoughts.

I'm going to stay away from the technical discussion, the data, the numbers and leave all of that to those who are far more adept at this than I am.

As an an Announcer and Commentator, who works a fair number of top level races/events in a Calendar year in running, track & field, cycling and triathlon - from National Championships, to World Cups and World Championships, and the occasional National and sometimes World Record - What I had the pleasure of witnessing yesterday in person was one of those TRULY extraordinary and exceptional athletic performances!

Context as always is important Lionel had only been on the track and riding at this level of intensity 5 - 6 times. THIS is not his environment. It's NOT his space. Those that had done this before, and gone this far, have been World Class Road Cyclists and/or Track Specialists - who have spent may be hundreds of hours circling velodrome tracks, getting it all dialed in and nailed down!

Like many things that he has done - it's all a bit unorthodox and unusual - it's the Lionel way!

Before an effort like this, the warm-up is critical. World Class Pursuit Cyclists and Time-Trialers would spend probably about 45 minutes to an hour, riding the rollers and the trainer getting revved up and ready to go. Lionel showed up with about 15 - 20 minutes before the scheduled start time, chatted briefly with his Team, and the broadcast team, donned his skin suit, had his bike measured up by the Head UCI Commissaire one last time, and headed out on the track for what seemed to me like about a 10 min warm-up!! That's it!

Perhaps the BIGGEST concern of the day was the Start. According to UCI regs, he had to use the pneumatic Starting Block. He had only practiced using the Starting Block a few times. To push a 61 x 13 gear away, from this Starting Block is super tricky! I have seen World Class Track cyclists in the Pursuit and Team Sprint Starts, botch it up and fall flat on their face! Lionel wobbled a bit, but other than that, was able to pull away and get the bike up to a reasonable speed, in about a half a lap, and then settle in.

The first 10 - 15 mins is more important than many think. With the usual taper, a good warm-up, there is a tendency to feel like Superman in this time, and go out too hard. Lionel, showed amazing discipline, and patience and held back for the first number of laps, and it was not maybe until about the 5 min mark or a bit further in, that he was up to 51+ km/h. From then on, he was an absolute metronome, knocking out lap after lap within a couple of tenths of a second of each. We were following the lap times, but as you may have heard in the post-ride interview, they were meaningless to him - he wanted Kilometer splits, which Erin his wife was giving to him on a whiteboard!

I know there has been SO much discussion with his position, but to my less than expert eye - it actually looked pretty good. I was backed up by this afterwards by Cervelo Co-Founder, and now President of 4iiii, Phil White, who said he liked what he saw - still some work to be done - but overall, better, and not too bad! My co-commentator Ed Veal, the previous Canadian One Hour Record Holder, and himself a former top-ranked Pursuit rider (Bronze Medal in the Team Pursuit at the 2015 Pan Am Games), said Lionel was moving around a bit more than, he would have liked to have seen - but again, context, becomes key - 5 to 6 times on the track, and Lionel was pushing a much bigger gear, than others who have done this - so more body movement perhaps expected.

The time went by quickly, as I suspected it would, and suddenly we were at the 45 min mark, and Lionel was still knocking out the 17.5 sec laps, again, and again, and again! My thoughts were then, he's going to do this, and he was now after the third of his three goals (1. Break current record. 2. Go beyond 50km. 3. Surpass Jen's Voight's standard - the first of the new Unified UCI Records). The challenge with the bigger gear, lower RPM choice is you have zero wiggle room, when things start to go south on you, and when you can't stay on top of the gear, the blow-up comes, quickly!! But with each minute completed, past the 45 min mark, I felt more and more that we were going to be witnessing some history shortly!

Then he was past the Canadian Record and then past the 50km mark, and now the final count-down began . . . . and then the clock stopped and the distance was, a phenomenal 51.3 km! With the fixed gear it takes a lap or more to bring the bike back down to a pedestrian pace. Some who have done this, (The great Eddy Merckx) have had to be physically helped off the bike, or they have fallen off, or been left hanging on to the inside rail/fence of the track's infield - completely incapacitated. Lionel rolled around to the Start and Commentating location, hopped off the bike, himself and in the matter of a minute composed enough to do the interview that you all saw! Most world class riders ounce recovered, would have headed straight to the rollers for a warm-down. Lionel did no formal warm-down from what I saw. His only complaint to me, was when he walked down the stairs from the track to the infield, past where Ed and were working, he said "my quads are a bit sore"! :-)

There will probably lot's of talk and there already has bee, of, "What's next" In a three-way conversation that I had with Phil White and Ed Veal, shortly after we finished, given what we saw, and Lionel's lack of experience, some fine tuning of the position, and perhaps a trip to the Aquacalientes, Velodrome in Mexico, at altitude, and he could go much further! But again, context is key - next up is the PTO/Challenge Daytona race, where Lionel is going in, clearly in the absolute BEST bike/run fitness of his life and then the UCI eSports World Championships which will be raced on Zwift, where one hour FTP is King and Lionel just showed, absolutely that he's in the best shape of his life for One Hour Power/FTP!

Thank you to the true wizards behind this production - Talbot Cox (working remotely and from afar) and Greg McFadden (many don't know Greg at all, but you've all seen his outstanding camera work in Post IRONMAN Race Videos and from the IRONMAN World Championships).

Thank you to Canyon, Gatorade, Zwift, and Freshii for their partnership.

Thank you to my Co-Commentator Ed Veal - He is the Real Deal, and knows this kind of cycling inside out and it was particularly poignant, as the existing Record Holder to have him involved.

Finally thank you to everyone who did watch and for the many kind words and compliments that came my way. I felt a bit rusty, to be honest. It was particularly special for me, in this upside down year, as this, and last weekend's commentary for FloBikes of the Women's Tour of Flanders, were my first bits of real work in over 7 months! Hopefully we have started the long road back to some level of normalcy!

That's it for from me! Be well. Stay safe and stay healthy!


Fleck, I just wanted to provide a huge thanks for bringing to life the greatest FTP + self generated wind tunnel aero test in the history of ST.

20 years of Dan running this place and associated banter from posters all came together in the ultimate show.

now that Lionel has the Canadian, US and German hour records does this bait some other tri studs out to give it a whirl....like Sebi?
Last edited by: devashish_paul: Oct 24, 20 13:53
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Re: Lionel going to for the Canadian Hour Record [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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i don't know if it's hard for multisporters to give it all


Swim and bike . . . probably not. We are kind of programed to NOT go there.

We talked about this a bit in the Broadcast. Top cyclists will ride the bike, to collapse, but a triathlete would never do that! Always be in control, and leave a bit in the tank - I have to run after this!


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Lionel going to for the Canadian Hour Record [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Fleck wrote:
i don't know if it's hard for multisporters to give it all


Swim and bike . . . probably not. We are kind of programed to NOT go there.

We talked about this a bit in the Broadcast. Top cyclists will ride the bike, to collapse, but a triathlete would never do that! Always be in control, and leave a bit in the tank - I have to run after this!

You mean for something like this?


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Re: Lionel going to for the Canadian Hour Record [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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now that Lionel has the Canadian, US and German hour records does this bate some other tri studs out to give it a whirl....like Sebi?


Good question. It might start a flurry. Who knows. Ed Veal told me that he heard that Victor Campernearts is possibly going back to Aquacaliente this winter to have another go at it. Fillipo Ganna, has certainly shown some phenomenal TT performances - at the UCI World Championships and at the Giro. Ditto for Rohan Dennis - he's in phenomenal shape right now. Did you see him in the last two Stages!

As for other triathletes having a go at this and other Canadians - this is NOT an inexpensive or easy logistical thing to go after. Lionel had the financial resources, and the backing of several key sponsors to do this. Of course, Lionel took a completely unorthodox approach to this, but I would think, you would want to allocate at a minimum 2 - 4 months of training and time to something like this for a proper prep - setting all other racing, and other training aside, to specifically train for an hour record attempt.

For the time being Lionel owns the Canadian Record, the 16th Fastest Time, All-Time in the Unified UCI Rules, and Bragging Rights, as the Best Active Triathlete in the World, at the One Hour on the Track.

It does beg the question - of the current crop of top active triathletes, who are known for their cycling fitness/speed . .

- Keinle
- Starkeweiz
- Wurf (although now back in Pro Cycling)
- Frodeno
- Others?

. . . what could they do in a One Hour attempt, like Lionel just did?


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Lionel going to for the Canadian Hour Record [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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synthetic wrote:
dfru wrote:
synthetic wrote:
since this was mentioned in this thread, his 5k "PR" was done in what exact version of skecher shoes?


Ugh, looks like Speed Elite...but just don't go there and let this rather impressive fall project shine for a bit.


I must, mechanical doping assist shoes speed you up 30-60 seconds in a 5k. So she adjusting time, he didn't PR, as you shouldn't with aging and a focus on long distance

He's 32. He's not 40. And the skechers shoes don't even have a full plate. Much less foam than other shoes too.

I quite enjoyed the pursuits of both of his projects, and I guess it just gets old every time I open a thread with some positive news and see something about shoes and am not surprised with who wrote said comment. Anyways, whatever floats your boat.

Congrats to Lionel for his incredible hard work, striving for his personal bests and constant improvement, and providing inspiration. I know it's been inspiring to me the past month for sure. And to his team - LS is most definitely on the right path for continued success!

DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!
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Re: Lionel going to for the Canadian Hour Record [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Fleck wrote:
now that Lionel has the Canadian, US and German hour records does this bate some other tri studs out to give it a whirl....like Sebi?


Good question. It might start a flurry. Who knows. Ed Veal told me that he heard that Victor Campernearts is possibly going back to Aquacaliente this winter to have another go at it. Fillipo Ganna, has certainly shown some phenomenal TT performances - at the UCI World Championships and at the Giro. Ditto for Rohan Dennis - he's in phenomenal shape right now. Did you see him in the last two Stages!

As for other triathletes having a go at this and other Canadians - this is NOT an inexpensive or easy logistical thing to go after. Lionel had the financial resources, and the backing of several key sponsors to do this. Of course, Lionel took a completely unorthodox approach to this, but I would think, you would want to allocate at a minimum 2 - 4 months of training and time to something like this for a proper prep - setting all other racing, and other training aside, to specifically train for an hour record attempt.

For the time being Lionel owns the Canadian Record, the 16th Fastest Time, All-Time in the Unified UCI Rules, and Bragging Rights, as the Best Active Triathlete in the World, at the One Hour on the Track.

It does beg the question - of the current crop of top active triathletes, who are known for their cycling fitness/speed . .

- Keinle
- Starkeweiz
- Wurf (although now back in Pro Cycling)
- Frodeno

- Others?

. . . what could they do in a One Hour attempt, like Lionel just did?

I don't think any of them would beat Lionel. Even Wurf. Sebi maybe given his aeroness. I think the swim takes more out of Lionel than Wurf which is why Wurf outbikes him when fresh, but that's just my hunch watching the two swim. Lionel looks like his is fighting the water more than almost all pros, so he enters T1 more depleted from the swim. But straight up watts on the bike, Lionel is KING. And he nailed the pacing and stayed aero the entire time. Sebi likely more aero and could go as fast off less energy. That's my wild guess. But maybe it baits Wurf into giving it a go.
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Re: Lionel going to for the Canadian Hour Record [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
now that Lionel has the Canadian, US and German hour records does this bait some other tri studs out to give it a whirl....like Sebi?

i would like to see jordan try it. i would get behind that. jordan has a very big bike engine, an awful lot of velodrome miles, and a lot of top end speed (pursuit) training on the velodrome, and the discipline to stick to a very tight position. he may not have been the absolute uberbike king, but i think he has a unique set of assets that lend itself to this kind of effort.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Lionel going to for the Canadian Hour Record [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Truly an enjoyable event that you hosted and it was nice to see Lionel get the Canadian record. Here's a write up from Romingers 1994 record, and he like Lionel had very little track riding experience. The article quotes 8 hours of total track practice, before he went 55.291 km/hr. He used aero bars, double discs, and a round tube non aero frameset.

https://www.nytimes.com/...-cycling-mark.html#:~:text=When%20Rominger%20set%20off%20Saturday,hours'%20experience%20on%20the%20boards.
Last edited by: wetswimmer99: Oct 24, 20 16:15
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Re: Lionel going to for the Canadian Hour Record [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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synthetic wrote:
I must, mechanical doping assist shoes speed you up 30-60 seconds in a 5k. So she adjusting time, he didn't PR, as you shouldn't with aging and a focus on long distance

Fuck off. This thread isn't even about running, and that unrelated 5k was just a personal fun run. It's not taking anyone else's record.

Would it make you feel better if I kept a pre-P5 bike split PR and post P5 PR, since the P5 is faster than my old tri bike was? Would that help you sleep better after seeing the horror or carbon-plated runs on YouTube?
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Re: Lionel going to for the Canadian Hour Record [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
now that Lionel has the Canadian, US and German hour records does this bait some other tri studs out to give it a whirl....like Sebi?


i would like to see jordan try it. i would get behind that. jordan has a very big bike engine, an awful lot of velodrome miles, and a lot of top end speed (pursuit) training on the velodrome, and the discipline to stick to a very tight position. he may not have been the absolute uberbike king, but i think he has a unique set of assets that lend itself to this kind of effort.

With the CDA numbers Jordan published it's not hard to figure out how many fewer watts he would need. And I have no doubt he could produce them.

I hope he gives it a try.
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Re: Lionel going to for the Canadian Hour Record [BigBoyND] [ In reply to ]
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BigBoyND wrote:
synthetic wrote:

I must, mechanical doping assist shoes speed you up 30-60 seconds in a 5k. So she adjusting time, he didn't PR, as you shouldn't with aging and a focus on long distance


Fuck off. This thread isn't even about running, and that unrelated 5k was just a personal fun run. It's not taking anyone else's record.

Would it make you feel better if I kept a pre-P5 bike split PR and post P5 PR, since the P5 is faster than my old tri bike was? Would that help you sleep better after seeing the horror or carbon-plated runs on YouTube?

yes. this is important. take a look at the Merckx (UCI hour) record if you want to stay on the bike topic. hasnt moved in a while
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Re: Lionel going to for the Canadian Hour Record [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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synthetic wrote:
BigBoyND wrote:
synthetic wrote:

I must, mechanical doping assist shoes speed you up 30-60 seconds in a 5k. So she adjusting time, he didn't PR, as you shouldn't with aging and a focus on long distance


Fuck off. This thread isn't even about running, and that unrelated 5k was just a personal fun run. It's not taking anyone else's record.

Would it make you feel better if I kept a pre-P5 bike split PR and post P5 PR, since the P5 is faster than my old tri bike was? Would that help you sleep better after seeing the horror or carbon-plated runs on YouTube?


yes. this is important. take a look at the Merckx (UCI hour) record if you want to stay on the bike topic. hasnt moved in a while

Simple searching of your blog shows all the hypocrisy of your posting on the shoes. Give it up - give it up for people putting themselves out there - testing their limits, being positive and inspiring, and the fact that technology changes things for the better (your swim, for instance).

It's super easy to be a keyboard warrior - but honestly Lionel is out there doing things the best he can, and we don't need to come in here and crap on it (or every other thread involving running) and leave a bad taste in people's mouth.

DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!
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Re: Lionel going to for the Canadian Hour Record [dfru] [ In reply to ]
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I've never understood the purpose any of synthetic's posts, except for being a troll. His arguments are weak at best. He doesn't contribute anything meaningful to the forum. Just ignore him, which I could just block his posts.
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Re: Lionel going to for the Canadian Hour Record [hubcaps] [ In reply to ]
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 which I could just block his posts.[/quote]
You can, click on the user' name and click hide posts.
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Re: Lionel going to for the Canadian Hour Record [dirtbag] [ In reply to ]
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typo wish and which.

But not seeing that when I click on name.
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Re: Lionel going to for the Canadian Hour Record [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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synthetic wrote:
BigBoyND wrote:
synthetic wrote:

I must, mechanical doping assist shoes speed you up 30-60 seconds in a 5k. So she adjusting time, he didn't PR, as you shouldn't with aging and a focus on long distance


Fuck off. This thread isn't even about running, and that unrelated 5k was just a personal fun run. It's not taking anyone else's record.

Would it make you feel better if I kept a pre-P5 bike split PR and post P5 PR, since the P5 is faster than my old tri bike was? Would that help you sleep better after seeing the horror or carbon-plated runs on YouTube?


yes. this is important. take a look at the Merckx (UCI hour) record if you want to stay on the bike topic. hasnt moved in a while


The only reason the Merckx record has not moved is because it is a dead record. No official attempts are recorded. Cancellara would have broken it most likely had it not been unified in 2014

My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
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Re: Lionel going to for the Canadian Hour Record [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
now that Lionel has the Canadian, US and German hour records does this bait some other tri studs out to give it a whirl....like Sebi?


i would like to see jordan try it. i would get behind that. jordan has a very big bike engine, an awful lot of velodrome miles, and a lot of top end speed (pursuit) training on the velodrome, and the discipline to stick to a very tight position. he may not have been the absolute uberbike king, but i think he has a unique set of assets that lend itself to this kind of effort.


Well based on how Rapp was talking on this thread maybe he changes his mind and dives in.

Related note since we were talking cadence before this and Rapp participated, Alex Dowsett is riding at 94 RPM in the final Giro ITT. That TT has Brandle, Dennis, Dowsett and Campanaerts, four hour record holders. Ganna to come too. The only guy in that set who is ahead of Lionel who is not TTing this weekend is Wiggins. Imagine if we could put Lionel in Milan today

Edit: Ganna on the road, he has not dropped below 500W and is riding at 104 RPM
Last edited by: devashish_paul: Oct 25, 20 7:00
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Re: Lionel going to for the Canadian Hour Record [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
Well based on how Rapp was talking on this thread maybe he changes his mind and dives in.

We need to sponsor him for Canadian citizenship since the US record is 53 and change.

The ST hour record is even higher :-)

I hope some of the Canadian pro tour guys give it a try. Some of them could definitely do it if they hurry up before Lionel does it again.
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Re: Lionel going to for the Canadian Hour Record [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Fleck wrote:
24 hours on - here's my thoughts.

I'm going to stay away from the technical discussion, the data, the numbers and leave all of that to those who are far more adept at this than I am.

As an an Announcer and Commentator, who works a fair number of top level races/events in a Calendar year in running, track & field, cycling and triathlon - from National Championships, to World Cups and World Championships, and the occasional National and sometimes World Record - What I had the pleasure of witnessing yesterday in person was one of those TRULY extraordinary and exceptional athletic performances!

Context as always is important Lionel had only been on the track and riding at this level of intensity 5 - 6 times. THIS is not his environment. It's NOT his space. Those that had done this before, and gone this far, have been World Class Road Cyclists and/or Track Specialists - who have spent may be hundreds of hours circling velodrome tracks, getting it all dialed in and nailed down!

Like many things that he has done - it's all a bit unorthodox and unusual - it's the Lionel way!

Before an effort like this, the warm-up is critical. World Class Pursuit Cyclists and Time-Trialers would spend probably about 45 minutes to an hour, riding the rollers and the trainer getting revved up and ready to go. Lionel showed up with about 15 - 20 minutes before the scheduled start time, chatted briefly with his Team, and the broadcast team, donned his skin suit, had his bike measured up by the Head UCI Commissaire one last time, and headed out on the track for what seemed to me like about a 10 min warm-up!! That's it!

Perhaps the BIGGEST concern of the day was the Start. According to UCI regs, he had to use the pneumatic Starting Block. He had only practiced using the Starting Block a few times. To push a 61 x 13 gear away, from this Starting Block is super tricky! I have seen World Class Track cyclists in the Pursuit and Team Sprint Starts, botch it up and fall flat on their face! Lionel wobbled a bit, but other than that, was able to pull away and get the bike up to a reasonable speed, in about a half a lap, and then settle in.

The first 10 - 15 mins is more important than many think. With the usual taper, a good warm-up, there is a tendency to feel like Superman in this time, and go out too hard. Lionel, showed amazing discipline, and patience and held back for the first number of laps, and it was not maybe until about the 5 min mark or a bit further in, that he was up to 51+ km/h. From then on, he was an absolute metronome, knocking out lap after lap within a couple of tenths of a second of each. We were following the lap times, but as you may have heard in the post-ride interview, they were meaningless to him - he wanted Kilometer splits, which Erin his wife was giving to him on a whiteboard!

I know there has been SO much discussion with his position, but to my less than expert eye - it actually looked pretty good. I was backed up by this afterwards by Cervelo Co-Founder, and now President of 4iiii, Phil White, who said he liked what he saw - still some work to be done - but overall, better, and not too bad! My co-commentator Ed Veal, the previous Canadian One Hour Record Holder, and himself a former top-ranked Pursuit rider (Bronze Medal in the Team Pursuit at the 2015 Pan Am Games), said Lionel was moving around a bit more than, he would have liked to have seen - but again, context, becomes key - 5 to 6 times on the track, and Lionel was pushing a much bigger gear, than others who have done this - so more body movement perhaps expected.

The time went by quickly, as I suspected it would, and suddenly we were at the 45 min mark, and Lionel was still knocking out the 17.5 sec laps, again, and again, and again! My thoughts were then, he's going to do this, and he was now after the third of his three goals (1. Break current record. 2. Go beyond 50km. 3. Surpass Jen's Voight's standard - the first of the new Unified UCI Records). The challenge with the bigger gear, lower RPM choice is you have zero wiggle room, when things start to go south on you, and when you can't stay on top of the gear, the blow-up comes, quickly!! But with each minute completed, past the 45 min mark, I felt more and more that we were going to be witnessing some history shortly!

Then he was past the Canadian Record and then past the 50km mark, and now the final count-down began . . . . and then the clock stopped and the distance was, a phenomenal 51.3 km! With the fixed gear it takes a lap or more to bring the bike back down to a pedestrian pace. Some who have done this, (The great Eddy Merckx) have had to be physically helped off the bike, or they have fallen off, or been left hanging on to the inside rail/fence of the track's infield - completely incapacitated. Lionel rolled around to the Start and Commentating location, hopped off the bike, himself and in the matter of a minute composed enough to do the interview that you all saw! Most world class riders ounce recovered, would have headed straight to the rollers for a warm-down. Lionel did no formal warm-down from what I saw. His only complaint to me, was when he walked down the stairs from the track to the infield, past where Ed and were working, he said "my quads are a bit sore"! :-)

There will probably lot's of talk and there already has bee, of, "What's next" In a three-way conversation that I had with Phil White and Ed Veal, shortly after we finished, given what we saw, and Lionel's lack of experience, some fine tuning of the position, and perhaps a trip to the Aquacalientes, Velodrome in Mexico, at altitude, and he could go much further! But again, context is key - next up is the PTO/Challenge Daytona race, where Lionel is going in, clearly in the absolute BEST bike/run fitness of his life and then the UCI eSports World Championships which will be raced on Zwift, where one hour FTP is King and Lionel just showed, absolutely that he's in the best shape of his life for One Hour Power/FTP!

Thank you to the true wizards behind this production - Talbot Cox (working remotely and from afar) and Greg McFadden (many don't know Greg at all, but you've all seen his outstanding camera work in Post IRONMAN Race Videos and from the IRONMAN World Championships).

Thank you to Canyon, Gatorade, Zwift, and Freshii for their partnership.

Thank you to my Co-Commentator Ed Veal - He is the Real Deal, and knows this kind of cycling inside out and it was particularly poignant, as the existing Record Holder to have him involved.

Finally thank you to everyone who did watch and for the many kind words and compliments that came my way. I felt a bit rusty, to be honest. It was particularly special for me, in this upside down year, as this, and last weekend's commentary for FloBikes of the Women's Tour of Flanders, were my first bits of real work in over 7 months! Hopefully we have started the long road back to some level of normalcy!

That's it for from me! Be well. Stay safe and stay healthy!

Funniest part was how you kept saying he looks good, and Veal would jump in and say wellllll I wouldn't say he looks good....but it works for him. Lol.
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