I haven't ridden R3 but had an R5 before my current bike Canyon SLX Ultimate. Biggest diffrents for me was the comfort I ride alot in the alps in the summer an roads are often bad.
I still have same groupset and wheels as my old bike. How much the comfort depends on bigger tire size can I not say since I went up from 25c to 28c (now 32c) when I got the new frame.
I would say a new TL wheelsset can probally be a better first step upgrade if you don't have.

What model Scott Foil do you have? and how light do you want your climbing bike to be? I have a 2017 Scott Foil RC (rim brake) that is currently at the UCI weight limit of 6.8 Kg. And that is with a quarq dzero powermeter, Zipp 404 clinchers and etap. So it could easily be lowered significantly less, depending how much money you want to put down.

I would rather have a light aero road bike than having two bikes.

IMHO, the secret sauce to a bike that feels snappy and responsive in climbs and sprints is mostly not the frame. It is the wheels.

Frame weights between top end bikes do not vary by much. It is probably on the order of 100g variance between all the options out there. Top end aero frames are probably one- to two-hundred grams heavier than their race counterparts.

The one critical element of the frame design for climbing and sprinting is a very stiff bottom bracket area. But, there is really no objective way to compare those between frames, so you are pretty much relegated to marketing promises.

However, if you get the lightest wheels possible, it will make the bike feel massively faster on climbs. You will love it.

I've been riding a Felt FR FRD Disc this summer and the thing is a banshee. A very tight feeling bike with no energy wasted. Also rode Foil's at Hotel Domestique this summer and they felt a little bloated and lumbering compared to the FR.

I have a Scott Foil 20, 2018 version, Ultegra, Syncross rim brake wheels, comes in at 17.8lbs.

Funny you say that about your experience with Foils, mine is great on flats and rolling hills, but on real hills it feels, like you say, bloated and lumbering!
The Foil is still a great bike though, and a pleasure to ride.

Yeah having pondered this today, I'm thinking I could just upgrade the wheels. My R3 is 16.5lbs right now, and the BB is well stiff. I'm only a skinny arsed build, so sprinting not for me!
Currently I'm using Easton EA90SLX Wheels, light(1490gms I believe), but they are old too, and can't use too wide a tyre on them.
What would be a better carbon clincher these days?
Thanks

Foil 20 has the HMF frame, not the lighter HMX. Plus Ultegra and Syncros wheels are not the lightest in the world. But even with that frame, with an upgrade to SRAM red (wired) and lighter wheels could put you close to the UCI weight limit.

Sub-1,500g wheels are getting into the light realm. I was running wheels around 1,350 (IIRC) for a while on my bike, because I had the same goal. I wanted wider, and the lightest wider wheels I could find were the HED Ardennes Black. I love them. They are a little lighter than what you have now, but freakin' awesome.

As soon as you say "carbon clincher" you immediately get heavy. Everything has to be thick to support the forces, and thick translates to heavy.

Agree 100% as above, a snappy bike has wheels that pop.

Campagnolo Hyperon were sub 1500g carbon clinchers. I think the widest they came was 20mm, never rode them but supposedly some of the best climbing wheels. They're pretty tough to find these days, you'd have to look over on eBay, The Paceline or WeightWeenies.

Enve 2.2 is another option 18mm internal/27 external. Those come in around 1300g with the Enve carbon hubs.

Tubular rims are the answer.

I have to agree - shallow tubular rims (zipp 202s or 303s or similar) might be worth your consideration. These can be purchased as laughably low prices right now. If you passed first grade arts and crafts and are willing to spend a few days (but only about 90 min of actual contact time), it's one of the easier bike maintenance things to learn. Plus it's YOUR skin that's going to detach if you roll one, so I always like to know it's done correctly. There about 100 youtube videos on how to glue tubs. I find gluing tubs incredibly relaxing. If you have a rear wheel trainer it makes a perfect wheel holder (just use the rear skewer for both wheels). Invite a couple of buddies over, get a 6-pack of something good, put on some Cash and enjoy. Some things in life are intended to be savored. And the first time you stand up on the steep pitch, the grin will be worth it!

Newer and light are kind of an oxymoron. Canyon has a new bike that gets close to the UCI weight limit and Specialized is close to rolling something out, but it isn’t like the old days when you could walk into the Trek dealer and buy an Emonda that was 13.4 lbs.

It seems that disc group sets add about 300g and there aren’t the same weight weenie options for things like super light rim brakes, seatposts, skewers,...

Honestly I would guess that you want a bike the “feels” light as much as it actually is light. Something like the Zipp 202 tubulars with a light Vittoria will make your R3 feel like a rocket going up hill. Swapping over to any of the light clincher wheels (202, Aeolus Pro 3,..) and an open tubular will give a similar feel for an extra 300ish grams. Bikes like SL7, Super Six and Emonda that use disc brakes can be lighter and feel faster with a similar wheel and tire combination, but you probably aren’t going to be able to get them very close to the weight you could have with a weight weenied R3.

Light tubulars can be <1000g... built several sets.

I don't know that it translates to actual speed anywhere though. The climb needs to be quite steep before weight trumps aero.

A light climbing bike would be a fun exercise. You can get a fully functional bike <10 lbs if you are willing to spend $15k or so... like this one:

I would suggest keeping the R3, removing the paint, visit the WW site and start picking up some light weight goodies which can be done for not much money if you take your time. You could also go 1x for such a build. You do not need to spend a ton to go lightweight. You are ahead of many who build such bikes with the frame/forks you already have.

Many thanks for all the replies.

I am tempted to go the tubular route, I have had some 202s in the past, they were a great set of wheels. I really don't know if I can be hassled to glue them, that's my only sticking point. I always use to use tub tape, but from recent testing I've read that unless they are glued properly, they lose out on rolling resistance to a good tyre/latex tube.
I've seen some good buys on 2nd hand tubular wheels, so might re-think that.

So basically unless I'm going to splash out a lot of cash for a newer bike, I'm probably better off getting some lightweight wheels, maybe some lighter components etc.
I must admit, the R3 has probably been my favorite bike I've ever had,and I've had a few over the years, probably the Giant TCRs I've had comes close, those were great for climbing.

Cheers

Agree 100% tubular the way if weight is a concern, some of those rims are crazy, ie AX Lightness, Extralite CarboClimbs come in around 800g built up...no clue what the lightest mainstream clincher would be, I’m still tubular all the way for road

A great site for this purpose is https://r2-bike.com/ even if you don't buy from them, you can list all (most) of the products in each product category by weight.

Specialized has been teasing a new ultralight bike for a few weeks now, might want to check that out when it arrives.

Here is some more context... A typical top-tier frameset is around 800g. That is a mere ".8" of the UCI's 6.8kg threshold. In other words, a frameset is less than 5% of the total weight of a light bike. If you found an exotic frame that was a svelte 25% lighter than a typical frameset, that would only reduce the total bike weight by 1%.

In other words, you cannot get a frameset light enough to make a material difference in the total bike weight. Almost all of the weight reduction will come from the heaviest components: wheels & crankest. Then you get small incremental reductions through through the rest of the components (at very high cost/savings ratios).

So I've looked at some youtube videos on how to properly glue a tub on, looks easy enough, just need a weekend to let the glue dry between coats.
I'm going to look for some cheap tubulars wheels, and see how that goes.
Quite excited about this now, thanks again everyone for your replies.
Going to keep my old faithful R3, lovely bike, it's in the old CSC black,red and white colour scheme, looks good and rides well.
Cheers

My BikeBeat Überflieger Prototyp for rim brakes has 1210g (own measurement), it brakes good in dry and wet, 45mm height, 17.5mm internal and 26.5mm external width, nice wheels!

Man! Those things are light!! Pricey, but light. FWIW tubulars can be a heck of a lot less money and much lighter. I did a build that came in at 940g and I think I had $750 into it. When paired with veloflex records it increases the delta even more to a light clincher setup.

I have to agree that tubular is where it is at to save weight and gluing up is so easy and enjoyable. I like to clean my rims of old glue before re-gluing new tires, so, that takes some time and effort. However, gluing a new tire does not take a weekend.

My process:

-apply glue to first wheel and set aside
-apply glue to second wheel and set aside
-apply second coat of glue to first wheel and set aside
-apply second coat of glue to second wheel and set aside
-apply coat of glue to tire for first wheel and set aside
-apply coat of glue to tire for second wheel and set aside
-mount first tire onto first wheel and true up
-mount second tire to second wheel and true up

I normally only get through about half a bottle of red before I am done. When you go to peel said tires they won't be easy to take off. I don't like the cut and rip method as I had one glue job that I tried that with and it took some carbon with it. So, I roll the tire off which can take some effort, but that effort can be eased by using plastic pry tools.

ETA: I normally wait at least a few days before riding the newly glued tubies and store them fully inflated in the meantime. Since most of my tubulars were race wheels I sometimes would glue them up early in the year and they wouldn't hit the bike for a month. DO NOT GLUE AND RIDE IMMEDIATELY.

---

My YouTubes

When does the drying occur?