"There is no reason to be hostile towards me."

my growing hostility toward you is based on your incessant pestering of an 18yo kid, even tho you've got zero information on the circumstances behind the decisions he's made. further, to rope letsrun forum participants in as objective, balanced, wise and measured commentators of behavior is, to be as kind as possible, spurious.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Looks like Slowman is the sherrif, judge, and executioner in this place. Probably always gets the last word.

That said, some of others here (coachbarrie and a couple other posters) have made more sense. You can do whatever you want in this country (as long as it's legal) but LV's sudden departure from his team was Not Cool, and I don't care if he was 18. He had less than two weeks of season and two meets remaining and definitely would have been a factor on whether Oregon made it to NCAAs or not.

As for statements by some that he's just not up to collegiate level of running. That's pure poppycock! More like he hadn't had time to recover from a long year, as coachbarrie astutely spelled out earlier in this thread. While he may not be capable of running 28:30 10K right now, given some time, recovery, and additional training he may well have been ready by next summer or fall.

It will be interesting to see how he does at professional triathlon.

With all due respect Dan, I think we do have a pretty good grasp on the circumstances behind his decisions. The natural reaction for many was that he was frusterated with his performance and/or wasnt adjusting to NCAA cross country and/or thought he could perform better in tris. People speculated that there could have been other factors, including poor school performance, falling out of some kind with Vin and/or the team, family pressure, etc. He has given interviews since making his decision, though, that have essentially shot down these theories. One of these interviews is one the front page here even, saying that it was a difficult decision (ie. not a forced situation) and that both oregon and his family tried to convince him to stay. He has also stated that he thinks he can make a bigger impact on the world scene in tris than running, and that this played a role in his decision. By his own account, he decided that he would rather pursue tris and that he made this decision by himself. Unless he is flat out lying about something, then we know plenty about the circumstances. My position, therefore, remains that he acted in a selfish and unprofessional way by abandoing his team the week of regionals and quite possibly causing his team to miss out on nationals

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http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=18295
Gustav Larsson supporter

Oregon missed out on an at-large bid to NCAA's after losing to Washington St and Cal at Regionals, who they beat at Pac 12s. As someone who has run cross country I know that things change week to week. However, I also know that on an average day Oregon gave up 25-30 points by not having Lukas (At Pac 12s it would have been 25 points but obviously regionals is a larger meet, so more points per second between missing runner and the 6th runner given same time difference).

My only concern in this whole matter was how his actions would effect the 6 other Oregon runners who relied on him.

1. Welcome Barrie Shepley. The Slowtitch forum is a better place for having you on board. For those not in the know, Barrie is the highest ranking triathlon Coach in Canada and is also the long-time play-by-play guy for the ITU online coverage as well as the CBC's TV coverage of triathlon. He's been around since the very early days of the sport and seen it all.

2. I have mixed feelings about what seemed to be an abrupt departure of Lukas Verzbicas from Oregon. I raced in fairly competitive XC running seasons through my time in high school and university and I know how important the guys that score on the team can me. Take out any one of the top 4 scorers on the team and you go from a podium spot to way down in the rankings as a team really quickly. It does appear to be a situation of letting the team down substantially, and not just any XC team - this was the freaking Oregon Ducks with a rich and very deep distance running heritage. This is not a running program you just turn your back on! But perhaps the whole scene, and situation was overwhelming him. Still how hard would it have been to hang in for a few more weeks and run a couple more races?

3. I said this is another thread, and really in my view is the most important thing about all of this - for the sport of triathlon in the U.S., at many levels, this is a huge game-changer!! In terms of raw triathlon talent, the U.S. is the greatest country in the world!! It has the biggest and deepest talent pool of swimmers that can run and runners that can swim. By rights, the U.S. should be ruling in the sport of triathlon at the high performance end at all levels - but the country clearly is not. The problem is that these swimmers with latent run skills and the runners with the latent swim skills stick to the single sports because, the carrot for most of these kids is the College Scholarship in swimming or running. The college programs are so demanding, that they can only focus on the one sport and triathlon is forgotten. So here we have a very talented runner who can swim, who is the world junior triathlon champion, and has after a bit of a hiccup, decided that, he wants to focus on triathlon - potentially a first for an athlete at this level in the U.S. with this level of skill, talent and potential to do that! This is great news if you are a fan of the sport, and in particular if you are American and a fan of the sport of triathlon.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Yes. See Jeremy Bloom from CU for confirmation. Was accepting endorsement money as a skiier, and they (The NCAA) denied him eligibility to play football. Tim Dwight was paid roughly 1.5 million to play pro football, but they allowed him to return to compete in track after he returned endorsement money. (Ohio? Iowa? Somewhere in there).

John

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Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |

Its a tricky question. If he gets endorsement money from NIKE (not likely them, now) he is pretty much done NCAA wide, although Galen Rupp was allowed to take money and pay it back to regain eligability.

If he gets sponsership from USAT only, I'm not sure, that may be looked at like the Tim Dwight situation. Stuff like this gets a NCAA individual ruling and they aren't always sensible or consistent.

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Styrrell

He's only 18 years old! 18 year olds sometimes make decisions that you might not make as an adult. I know its been said before that there is a major change from HS to college running. He feels like he is making the the right decision, and he is a different situation. While most people "peak" in hs its because they don't move onto the next level and just let go of sports, this kid has a huge amount of talent. He has years to develop, and this kid will be a force later on if things go right. Is 2012 a stretch? Yes it is, but when I was 18 I said that I was going to be a rock star...nothing wrong with stretching or reaching for major goals.

People can have their own opinion but I no need to really hate on this kid. Look at the US talent coming up for triathlon...he is probably the new wave of it.

Its a tricky question. If he gets endorsement money from NIKE (not likely them, now) he is pretty much done NCAA wide, although Galen Rupp was allowed to take money and pay it back to regain eligability.

Indeed, given the close ties that Nike has with the program at U of O ( I believe that Nike co-founder Phil Knight has a say in what goes on with the program at U of O in some way, and possibly a financial backer as well), I am sure that Nike may be out as a potential sponsor for him in triathlon. But with all due respect, Nike has not done a lot in triathlon for a while now and it's clearly not a priority for them.

But in terms of NCAA eligibility it may be moot - unless he wants to run for the school program at the U of C in C-Springs. If he's going to be full-on with triathlon, I am not sure of the good of that for someone like LV, with 5-star run credentials already. The run-and-race-with-the-varsity-XC-team gig, I believe is a better option for the runner who still needs to develop top-end run speed and strength.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

I'd run in those shoes! Nike Vz, Asics 'Bicas, whatever - as long as they make 'em in a 15.

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Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team

Ryan Sissons did not win the YOG- it was Aaron Barclay- who has not made any ripples on the ITU scene since. There is a huge difference between junior racing and the pointy end of the WCS races. The physical nature of a WCS swim will certainly be a shock the first time if LV gets a start- you just can't prepare for that kind of abuse and it takes more than a few of those same experiences to know how to handle it- much less stick with the group and make it to the bike with the group.

In addition, Phil Knight was a middle distance runner under Bill Bowerman at Oregon in the late 50s. He ran something like a 4:10 mile.

Verzbicas is staying in college. He made a decision on what college to attend and what sport to participate in during college (well, he made these decisions twice now, this his 2nd time. Poor timing if you as me but that's another discussion). He has a scholarship to both schools and opportunities in both sports. It's a decision on where to go to school but mostly what sport to do in college, with a few different elements (one place you're part of a team, the other you're doing basically an individual sport).
As a former college runner turned triathlete late in life, I have mixed feelings. I'm now 27. If I would have learned to really swim before nearly age 25, that would have helped a TON for my triathlon success. However, college running for a great program is an incredible experience. Now, LV has more talent than me by far in both sports, so I'll leave the decision up to him.

There are other athletes choosing the college tri team over the track team. It's more common than we think. Now, I think those kids are dumb if they are great runners, especially since tri isn't a scholarship NCAA sport. But, this is the first time when tri really can be considered a scholarship sport to do while in college. This changes things.

As far as talk about making the Olympics, I think 2016 is possible for LV. But when I heard he was referring to next year....wow, good luck with that. That's a very big long shot but heck, can't blame a kid for dreaming big.

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Ryan Borger - Denver, CO: Realtor. Former pro triathlete/coach. Cancer survivor. podiumproperties.com

Crap, if 27 is "late in life" then I must be writing this from "the other side" and I never saw the white light.

Not directed at you but...why is it assumed that it will be a good thing when (if?) triathlon becomes an NCAA sport?

tri will never be an NCAA sport...

Man do I hope you're right....not that I'll see it, but my school is a student body of 1,000 people, and 75% of our team already runs, swims, or rows, as well as one wide receiver.

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IG: idking90

No, some of us are willing to throw this ADULT softball questions in maybe the lamest interview I've ever read. Seriously, to not ask him why he ditched his Oregon teammates??? All ST had to do was ask him, and there would be no reason to give him the benefit of the doubt. Yes, we are interested in knowing, but you aren't interested in finding out. And you are being a big baby by taking offense to those who question you. Take your page and go home?

GB,

As I pointed out previously, I have mixed feelings about the sudden split with U of O and the ramifications for the team. But it's done. We can't change the past.

Why not turn this around now and look at it as a HUGE positive for the sport of triathlon in the U.S. Read Dan's article just posted up on the front page. If you really understand what's going on there, then you get this.

As I said, the U.S. as a country should be doing WAY better at elite level triathlon competition, at all levels, in all formats and at all distances . . . but it's not. It lags behind many other smaller countries with far less resources and miniscule talent pools compared to what the U.S. has. LV's move and what he does could be a real game-changer for triathlon in the U.S.. Why not look at it in that light?

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

an Olympic medal in triathlon is about as meaningful as a gold in the Modern Pentathlon.

In what countries?

You know that when Pakistan is eliminated before the medal round in Field Hockey, team members need to hire security for their houses at home so that disgruntled fans don't vandalize them! FIY, they take their Field Hockey very seriously in Pakistan. Ditto for Badminton in Malaysia - it's the national sport!!

I get your point, but this varies from country to country and depends on among other things, how much media coverage a sport gets in a country. In Canada, the mens triathlon race at the Beijing Olympic Games had the biggest TV viewership numbers of any sports event from the Olympic Games by a long shot!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Thats just because they were so confused that people were doing something outside that wasn't on snow or ice :)

Because I'm not willing to give him a pass and pat on the back like Dan and ST is. Not only did he completely screw over his teammates, he also took a scholarship away from another adult that probably would have given a body part to run for Oregon. Don't you think just about every good HS distance runner in this country would kill to run there? And LV pissed it away.

Face it, he took the easy way out. He ran 40-45 miles a week and expected to compete at D1 on talent alone. And he got his butt handed to him. In my opinion, he completely underestimated just how good these D1 runners are, and it appears to me many of his supporters are taking the exact same approach to his tri hopes. I hope he gets his butt handed to him repeatedly this year by some mid-level pros. I really do. 40-45 miles a week this past summer? Seriously? My HS daughter runs more than that. Anyone who runs competitively knows that 120 miles a week cycling helps your running exactly 0%. Amazingly talented, but not much for character, and I'm not sure he knows how to work hard. We'll see.

I find this whole discussion about as insightful as the "Lance Armstrong will run an Olympic Trials qualifier in his first marathon" threads that dominated this board a couple of years ago.

Bottom line, this ADULT punked his team. They are sitting home because he bailed on them. That's a fact. And I bet it doesn't bother him one bit. I fail to see how this is good for tri. Sorry.

it takes 2 to tango. oregon knew exactly what it was getting into when it recruited LV and operates a program that, at best, operates in the grey area. you really shouldn't lose any sleep feeling sorry for the poor ducks in this regard as it was a pleasing to see them get trounced at regionals.

also, did you bother to even look at the regionals results? my guess is that you did not otherwise you wouldn't be blaming him for the fact that they aren't going to terre haute next week. it's not like adding him and taking the 8th guy off their team would have made a big enough difference to get them there.

he also took a scholarship away from another adult that probably would have given a body part to run for Oregon. Don't you think just about every good HS distance runner in this country would kill to run there? And LV pissed it away.

Indeed. This is the Oregon Ducks we are talking about. You don't just turn your back on a legendary running program like that. That's why real runners are apoplectic about this. It's added significantly to the profile of it all. I am guessing had it been another non-descript, low profile, Div 1 school with no distance running history, that level of incredulity amongst the running population would be significantly diminished.

Face it, he took the easy way out. He ran 40-45 miles a week and expected to compete at D1 on talent alone. And he got his butt handed to him. In my opinion, he completely underestimated just how good these D1 runners are, and it appears to me many of his supporters are taking the exact same approach to his tri hopes.

We're talking about the same kid here right? The one that broke 4 minutes for the mile, ran 8:29 for two miles and beat all the top runners in the nation two years running at the XC Nationals? He had two off races for his first two college races and you are writing him off completely as a runner?

With regards to his tri hopes, there is work to be done, and it's still a long way to go, but I am encouraged by two things:

1. The precedent the this has set for triathlon in the U.S. ( few seem to understand that this is a key issue)

2. Whether we like it or not, world class triathlon competition when the field is deep and competitive, will come down to the run. LV's got amazing run talent. Something to build on and if he can work his way into it and be in the hunt over the final few K's of the run in a triathlon, I see him being very successful!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Actually, Oregon would've made it in to NCAAs as an at-large team based upon their 10 wins. And it makes no sense to say that Oregon should've foreseen this. LV came off what I think was the best year for a high school runner in America. He made a commitment to Oregon. And Fleck is right, he let down the most storied collegiate running program in the world.

Fleck is also right that this is good news for the sport of triathlon. LV is an incredible talent, whether it is in triathlon or running. I think he'll have success at the next level (although probably not in 2012). Triathlon should be happy that LV has returned to this sport...just not in the way that he did.

After reading the article about LV stepfather coaching at the Elite Tri Academy, I had one question. Didn't LV parents encourage him to stay at Oregon? If this is the case and his stepfather encouraged him to stay, isn't it strange that others in the Elite Tri Academy encouraged him to leave. Seems like a weird situation. I apologize if this is not factual...just gave it a quick read through this morning.