Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Let's talk chainring coatings: PEEK, Atomic, hard anodized & PTFE, TiN, other?
Quote | Reply
1:Is drivetrain coating rubbish or is there more to this that should be explored?
2:If you were to get your race day gears coated (thinking IP at track nationals), what coating would you pick?

Excuse the amateur google research below but...
Coating - Friction Coefficient (google estimates)
Diamond Like Coating (DLC) ~ .1-.2
Titanium Nitride (TiN) ~ .45-.55
PEEK ~ .25-.35
PTFE ~ .08-1
Hard Ano & PTFE ~ .15-.2
Atomic??

Kappstein ProLine Elite
Pyramid Cycle Design - PEEK - static coefficient of friction ~.35-.4
Atomic High Performance - Atomic mystery
EAI Gold Medal Cog - TiN
KMC chains - DLC
Last edited by: Ohio_Roadie: Mar 4, 19 13:59
Quote Reply
Re: Let's talk chainring coatings: PEEK, Atomic, hard anodized & PTFE, TiN, other? [Ohio_Roadie] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
TiN is great at holding a hard edge and for durability. That's why it's used for tools a lot. It's also Gold - if it was a dull dark color it wouldn't be half as popular.

There are better coatings to reduce friction. Some form of DLC would be my first pick. A multilayer DLC/Nitride coating would combine both.

For 4K IP durability isn't important. PTFE-infused (10% maybe) Nickel would be my first choice. I'm guessing the PEEK has some lubricity additive as well.
Quote Reply
Re: Let's talk chainring coatings: PEEK, Atomic, hard anodized & PTFE, TiN, other? [Ohio_Roadie] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Not rubbish, and I'll be racing you in IP (though probably not challenging you since I'm using it as practice for geezer nationals).

What I did is convert my track bike to 3/32, then picked up the Premier Bike treated Wipperman chain. I use Squirt wax during training, then for race-day I'll dip it in my homebrew PTFE/MOS2/paraffin solution.

This is partly based on a conversation I had with a tester at CeramicSpeed who said that for hour record type stuff, they were seeing 3/32 as slightly more efficient then the 1/8 drivetrains they were testing. Also corroborated a bit here on the Wiggins' hour record chain.

Also 3/32 is lighter and more aero, so it's win-win-win (even if all the 'wins' are very small).

I'm not going to bother getting my rings or cogs treated. Bridge too far for me, but I'm just a geezer racer. I might if I was a HUUB guy doing real elite races or something.

The change was cost-effective for me because I picked up some dude's entire track 144BCD 3/32 gear/cog set on eBay for a great price. The Premier Bike chain is also cost-effective because it lasts much longer than some of those treatments you list.

Edit: Also since I top out at 1500W on a standing kilo start (which I do for fun and to practice my pursuit start), I think I'm perfectly safe on a 3/32 chain. Works for Greipel, probably fine for a spindly masters guy.
Last edited by: trail: Mar 4, 19 13:28
Quote Reply
Re: Let's talk chainring coatings: PEEK, Atomic, hard anodized & PTFE, TiN, other? [trail] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
The smoothing treatment Premier use on their chains works. I've used a very similar treatment on parts for engines and measured its effects on surfaces. Definitely helps reduce friction.

Not sure how they manage to apply it to the whole chain though. So many small parts. Would expect it needs to be applied to the parts before assembly to be effective - which is probably not practical.
Quote Reply
Re: Let's talk chainring coatings: PEEK, Atomic, hard anodized & PTFE, TiN, other? [trail] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
trail wrote:
Not rubbish, and I'll be racing you in IP (though probably not challenging you since I'm using it as practice for geezer nationals).

What I did is convert my track bike to 3/32, then picked up the Premier Bike treated Wipperman chain. I use Squirt wax during training, then for race-day I'll dip it in my homebrew PTFE/MOS2/paraffin solution.

This is partly based on a conversation I had with a tester at CeramicSpeed who said that for hour record type stuff, they were seeing 3/32 as slightly more efficient then the 1/8 drivetrains they were testing. Also corroborated a bit here on the Wiggins' hour record chain.

Also 3/32 is lighter and more aero, so it's win-win-win (even if all the 'wins' are very small).

I'm not going to bother getting my rings or cogs treated. Bridge too far for me, but I'm just a geezer racer. I might if I was a HUUB guy doing real elite races or something.

The change was cost-effective for me because I picked up some dude's entire track 144BCD 3/32 gear/cog set on eBay for a great price. The Premier Bike chain is also cost-effective because it lasts much longer than some of those treatments you list.

Edit: Also since I top out at 1500W on a standing kilo start (which I do for fun and to practice my pursuit start), I think I'm perfectly safe on a 3/32 chain. Works for Greipel, probably fine for a spindly masters guy.

Not to give away too many secrets but I will be using Kappstein's 11 speed (11/128) rings and cogs with a PremierBike chain. I'm only around 1200 watts max on a good day, so I'm not worried about snapping the chain on the start line.
Quote Reply
Re: Let's talk chainring coatings: PEEK, Atomic, hard anodized & PTFE, TiN, other? [carlosflanders] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
carlosflanders wrote:
TiN is great at holding a hard edge and for durability. That's why it's used for tools a lot. It's also Gold - if it was a dull dark color it wouldn't be half as popular.

There are better coatings to reduce friction. Some form of DLC would be my first pick. A multilayer DLC/Nitride coating would combine both.

For 4K IP durability isn't important. PTFE-infused (10% maybe) Nickel would be my first choice. I'm guessing the PEEK has some lubricity additive as well.

Just looked at Electroless Nickel PTFE marketing material claims Coefficient of Friction of less than 0.10. Looks like I need to check out vendors that are willing to coat a couple chainrings and cogs. Thanks!
Quote Reply
Re: Let's talk chainring coatings: PEEK, Atomic, hard anodized & PTFE, TiN, other? [Ohio_Roadie] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I'd have a look at ICE Friction Tech stuff too. I am sponsored by them, so a little biased, but Michael is really into his work and delivers a quality product that has been thoroughly vetted. I don't know if he advertises or sells the coated chainrings and cassettes on the site (mostly promotes the chains), but I'm sure he'd respond if you reached out.

https://www.icefriction.com/

http://www.benhoffmanracing.com
Quote Reply
Re: Let's talk chainring coatings: PEEK, Atomic, hard anodized & PTFE, TiN, other? [TheHoff] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
TheHoff wrote:
I'd have a look at ICE Friction Tech stuff too. I am sponsored by them, so a little biased, but Michael is really into his work and delivers a quality product that has been thoroughly vetted. I don't know if he advertises or sells the coated chainrings and cassettes on the site (mostly promotes the chains), but I'm sure he'd respond if you reached out.

https://www.icefriction.com/

I've never met him but I've only heard good things about ICE Friction Tech and Michael. I believe SLF prefers his ICE'd chains too. For chains and lube, I'm biased towards PremierBike as they are great products and Dan was willing to sponsorship for my GF's UCI team about this time last year. I will probably use the PemierBike Wippermann Connex chain for these races.
Quote Reply
Re: Let's talk chainring coatings: PEEK, Atomic, hard anodized & PTFE, TiN, other? [Ohio_Roadie] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Should be quite a few vendors who can do this. Cost might be of the same order as the chainrings though. PTFE is good up to nearly 400C, quite robust. Keep the percentage in the 10-20% range - coating can get quite rough with higher percent. Check that the temperature they use won't affect the hardening treatment on your components.
Quote Reply
Re: Let's talk chainring coatings: PEEK, Atomic, hard anodized & PTFE, TiN, other? [carlosflanders] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks, I'll double check that for sure. Some of the places that I have checked out have switched to medical devices only, or most simply don't respond to calls or email.

The Nickel PTFE vendor that I just checked out offers 13-27% PTFE, would you say lower (in this range) is better for this application?
Quote Reply
Re: Let's talk chainring coatings: PEEK, Atomic, hard anodized & PTFE, TiN, other? [Ohio_Roadie] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Somewhere in the lower half of that range. Get a lot of porosity and structural problems when you hit 18-20%. Might not be noticeable on chainrings but significant problem for the heavy duty parts I've coated before.
Quote Reply