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Legal Question Re: Bike Sale
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I sold a bike to a guy last Thursday and I need advice. He came to my place, rode the bike around, and asked me questions about the bike for about an hour. He expressed concerns that the bike may be too small and decided to wait before purchasing. After talking for a little longer, he decides that he wants to buy it so I wouldn't sell it to someone else. He pays me and takes the bike. He keeps the bike until this past Tuesday and contacts me saying that he wants his money back because the bike is too small. I tell him that I am reluctant to refund his money and he threatens me with a lawsuit unless I comply. So far, he still has the bike (I assume) and I still have the money.

So......what are my rights? I certainly would refund his money if the bike was not mechanically sound, but he wants a refund because he decided he needs a larger frame. I feel terrible that he feels he made a bad purchase, but should I have to pay for his mistake? Thanks.
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Re: Legal Question Re: Bike Sale [Tri Slow Poke] [ In reply to ]
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What is he going to sue you for?

Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.
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Re: Legal Question Re: Bike Sale [DavHamm] [ In reply to ]
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He wants to return the bike to me and he wants his money back.
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Re: Legal Question Re: Bike Sale [Tri Slow Poke] [ In reply to ]
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You don't have to refund his money. You never promised that the bike would fit him and he had a chance to test it out and decide for himself whether it fit. It's his responsibility to find another buyer, not yours.
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Re: Legal Question Re: Bike Sale [ike] [ In reply to ]
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No, I didn't promise him that it would fit. As evidence by some of the stupid questions I've asked on this board, I'm not qualified to fit anyone!
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Re: Legal Question Re: Bike Sale [ike] [ In reply to ]
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Tell him to get real! Make him understand that if he brings you to court, he will lose and after he looses, you'll counter sue him for court fees, time away from work and damaged reputation. Do not refund his money. He'll stop bothering you.

On the other hand, is it a titanflex? If so sell it to me. :)
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Re: Legal Question Re: Bike Sale [NYSLIM] [ In reply to ]
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Hey Slim,

I think I will take your advise and send him one last email letting him know my intentions to countersue. This sucks!!! Why doesn't he just resale it or part it out and buy a frame that fits?

No, it's not a Titanflex. I wouldn't sell if to you anyway!! I'm still mad that you're leaving the "Fuji Aloha Mafia" on ST. LOL!!
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Re: Legal Question Re: Bike Sale [Tri Slow Poke] [ In reply to ]
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He came to my place

Refund his money, he sounds desperate. I could understand the "hey man, I really made a stupid mistake and hoping I could return the bike".

I listed an old bed frame on Craigslist for cheap. Within minutes, I had 50 offers and took the 1st one. I was pretty darn nervous before they came. So, I took the bed apart and set it up in the driveway. I didn't need strangers seeing all my stuff inside.....or in my garage.

This all started about a year ago when a freaky cable install guy asked me about a book on my desk.....
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Re: Legal Question Re: Bike Sale [Tri Slow Poke] [ In reply to ]
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LOL! I still have my Aloha's!
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Re: Legal Question Re: Bike Sale [Tri Slow Poke] [ In reply to ]
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Just be sure this dude isn't crazy. He does know where you live. You might want to explain to him that if he contacts you again, you are calling the police for an order of protection.
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Re: Legal Question Re: Bike Sale [Tri Slow Poke] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
He wants to return the bike to me and he wants his money back.

Again, what is he suing you for? Let me rephrase, under what legal issue regarding the sale does he think you violated that would give him legal right to sue? Did the reciept say something about a return policy, and you are now not obeying it? Did you right as is no returns on the receipt? (If not it will be his word vs yours). In small claims court you may never be sure how those will turn out. If there was no receipt deny selling him the bike and he would then have to prove there was a sale, and that you agreed to give him some sort of return policy.

So what is in writing on this transaction.

Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.
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Re: Legal Question Re: Bike Sale [Diesel] [ In reply to ]
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I understand a mistake. I would have given him the benefit of the doubt if he called me the next day. I would have refunded his money if he had contacted me after two days. However, I can't afford (financially, time-wise, etc.) to hold his cash indefinately without using it for other things.

He knows where I live (yikes!), but he doesn't know my apt. number. We met in the lobby. I hate to think of the worst, but I'm going to be on my guard. Lesson learned: Don't talk to strangers......unless I'm posting on SlowTwitch!
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Re: Legal Question Re: Bike Sale [DavHamm] [ In reply to ]
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Nothing is in writing. I posted the add, he came by, paid with cash, and left. No receipt.
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Re: Legal Question Re: Bike Sale [Tri Slow Poke] [ In reply to ]
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Based on the story he would have nothing to sue you for. Would not worry about him suing you. People love to threaten lawsuits but hardly ever actually bring one. Further, the small amount of money involved would not make it worth it. If you do get sued or want more specific information pm me. Notwithstanding the foregoing, NOTHING IN THIS POST IS INTENDED TO BE LEGAL ADVICE AND IS FOR ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY :)
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Re: Legal Question Re: Bike Sale [Chris G] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks. I'll keep you posted.
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Re: Legal Question Re: Bike Sale [NYSLIM] [ In reply to ]
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I actually have a confession: I sold my Aloha. Fortunately, I sold it to a guy I know and he loves it! I must admit that I'm starting to miss it. I especially enjoyed going by athletes who paid much more for their rides (Especially Litespeeds. I LOVED passing Litespeeds....) I'm starting to have a little seller's remorse over it! I might run out a grab another one.
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Re: Legal Question Re: Bike Sale [Tri Slow Poke] [ In reply to ]
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Tell the guy you sold it to that you want your bike back. If he hesitates, threaten to sue him.


<If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough>
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Re: Legal Question Re: Bike Sale [Tri Slow Poke] [ In reply to ]
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Simple, just tell him that you would refund his money, but now he is returning a more used bike, and you are not willing to pay him what he paid. Call it a restocking fee, or a pain in the ass fee.

or better still, tell him that you already used the money to pay off your massive credi card bill and no longer have the cash funds. you are not a reverse pawn sho, nor are you a retail outlet with any obligation to take the return. This is like trying to bring a car back for being the wrong color, or not being peppy enough. You in no way misrepresented the bike and therefore have no reason to accept the return.

Besides it sound like the guy is a jerk.

This is your life, and it's ending one minute at a time. - Fight Club
Industry Brat.
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Re: Legal Question Re: Bike Sale [bigskyTi] [ In reply to ]
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".....or better still, tell him that you already used the money to pay off your massive credi card bill and no longer have the cash funds."

That's EXACTLY what I did! Thanks. I'm starting to feel a little better about the situation.
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Re: Legal Question Re: Bike Sale [Tri Slow Poke] [ In reply to ]
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Anyone can sue anyone for anything. Now, whether someone will win or not, that is up to the person getting sued as they have to defend themselves. There are a few lawyers on this board that might chime in on this.

Let the guy know that he did not have to buy the bike and he knew that it was sold as is. A lot of people threaten things, but never make it around to doing what they say also.

Also, counter suing sounds like a good idea, but unlikely you would win. If he files paperwork with the courts and you end up winning, count your losses. Well, ask your attorney, but I have yet to have one of my attorneys tell me to counter sue. I have been sued for some stupid crap too.

Reverend Dr. Jay
Lake of the Pines Triathlon fastest bike course record holder - Golden State Super Sprint fastest tri course record holder - Wildflower Long Course slowest run course record holder (4:46:32)


"If you have a body, you are an athlete." -Bill Bowerman
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Re: Legal Question Re: Bike Sale [Tri Slow Poke] [ In reply to ]
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He's probably going to win if he sues. The problem you have is there's nothing in writing where it says, "sold as is" or similar language...this is your biggest mistake. It's going to be "he said, she said..." He could just say that you told him it would fit and you will say you didn't tell him that. He's going to say you said there was a 30 day trial period and you're going to say there isn't. Also, no meeting of the mind and therefore, contract is void.

This is assuming he's smart and goes this route. I'd only fight his suit for principle sake but if it's just for the sale, the time and cost is not worth it IMHO.

Get everything in writing next time.
Last edited by: auto208562: Nov 23, 06 22:48
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Re: Legal Question Re: Bike Sale [Tri Slow Poke] [ In reply to ]
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this sounds like a typical, human error type of thing that has the potential to go pretty wrong in many ways...lawsuits over a used bike sale? countersue? give him his money back and chalk it up to dealing with weirdos, you don't need the hassle and it obviously sounds like the guy isn't 100% cool, but might have made an honest mistake....in the big picture, you'd lose pts with st peter if you didn't try to accomodate a fellow human in this situation....nope, you might not see it as 'winning' your arguement, but wtf, aren't you better than him?
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Re: Legal Question Re: Bike Sale [Kiri] [ In reply to ]
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Give the money back. He may be crazy and smash your house up, he knows where you live. Tell him you'll give him 80% of the money back for the inconvenience/re-stocking fee. Better to sell to someone else, than to regret it, an have some psycho threatening you.

Next time, meet the person somewhere................


http://theworldthroumyeyes.tumblr.com/
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Re: Legal Question Re: Bike Sale [Tri Slow Poke] [ In reply to ]
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You are right, you shouldn't have to pay for his mistake. Caveat emptor, right? However, not only is it unclear that you would win a lawsuit like this (as someone else said, there was potentially no "meeting of the minds"), you have to consider your annoyance factor (to you) and what a hassle this has become. so, even though you seemingly didn't do anything wrong, it is probably the best idea to refund him 75% (ish) of his purchase price (after you are convinced that the bike is in similar shape to how you sold it to him).

then, sell the bike to a different guy and get it in writing. (as if, no refunds, cash sale, include pics and serial number with full bike description, etc.)

good luck.
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Re: Legal Question Re: Bike Sale [auto208562] [ In reply to ]
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I disagree I don't think he would win unless you are or held yourself out to be an expert. If your just some guy selling something then the buyer has no basis to rely on your opinion even if you gave it to him (which you are saying you didn't). I wish I could remember exactly what the law is but it has something to do with expert advice. That being said the guy knows where you live so that would be my overriding fear.
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