It's more difficult for some people than others. In all probability, you need someone giving you guidance at the pool. I recommend joining your local masters club. Of course you could also find a coach somewhere, and that ain't a bad idea either. Thing is, in the master's club these things tend to all come together.

thanks for the reply. I live over 1 hour from any masters classes. no way i can fit it in. I train alone 100% of the time unfortunately.

this is something I've been interested in as well. check out dave with findingfreestyle. he really focuses a lot on kick timing. I've had some success with one of his 12 week plans.

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TEAM F3 Undurance

This question never got answered, which is strange for ST.

I watched my wife swim for the first time in years (she's an adult on set swimmer) and noticed her kick is disconnected from her stroke. As someone who has been swimming since pre-k I've never had to learn that timing. I asked some swim buddies and no one knew of an actual drill to correct timing. A google search turns up lots of videos that show the proper timing but no drills.

So, is kick timing something you have to brute force develop, or is there a drill?

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"...the street finds its own uses for things"

I really don’t know, I vaguely remember doing something related to kick timing way way back when. I know we worked on timing for fly, but I don’t really remember what we did fur free. Maybe incorporate timing into a 6kick switch drill? It’s so long ago that I really don’t remember.

Finding Freestyle is definitely the guy on this forum who is most likely to have an answer.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

My coach gave me a drill for that a few months ago.

Swim with one fin and one paddle. On opposite sides. My coach gave me one of those small arena elite finger paddles. Just enough to heighten awareness. He told me to focus on down-kick with fin at same time as entry with paddle. 100 left, 100 right, 100 swim. Repeat.

Best drill I have done is 50's:
50 kick two beat
50 kick four beat
50 kick six beat

repeat.

This will help your body understand the different rhythms of kicking.

Two beat feels wierd.
Four beat most people do wrong as 12, 12 instead of 121, 2
Six beat is too much leg and uses too much oxygen for triathlon

My (unknowledgeable) view is this is actually the hardest part of AOS. As an AOS who has managed to drag my sorry arse to sub 60 swims over the past few years (wetsuit, sea I should add) the leg kick timing is the problem that I absolutely cannot seem to fix.
Whenever I get coaching the different bits of my stroke are 'broadly' right, but putting them together in perfect synchronicity is the barrier holding me back. A wetsuit in races hides this sin considerably.

I thought you'd never ask. I think someone already mentioned that kick timing is a big issue for adult onsets, and I completely agree. Overall timing....hands / feet / rotation / breathing is without a doubt the biggest AOS limiter, and kick timing is probably the most critical part of that mix.

The problem is that for kids, it is not so tough. Maglischo mentions it briefly in his books, characterizing it as "seldom a problem", and moves on. For adults it is almost always a problem. It's a mental plasticity difference.

So I am going to offer you essentially 50% of my 12 week program in a nutshell.

First, simply learn to turn the legs off. IOW, pull. Without a buoy if possible. Just let the legs dangle, sink if they must, but don't hold them rigid. Don't care how it looks or feels, I just want you to learn control.

Next, turn one of them back on. Swim with a one leg kick, Any rhythm, any timing, just flail away with one leg while silencing the other. Again, control is the point.

Next, reduce that one leg kick to one beat per stroke cycle. Still put it wherever. Don't worry about timing, just kick with one leg, once per stroke cycle (2 strokes).

Finally, put that one leg / one beat kick at the right time. This is still somewhat "forcing it", but if you go through those steps to develop awareness and control, it should eventually come together. And when you get it in the right place, it feels right. A propulsive boost will often be apparent. Essentially, regardless of rhythm (2 4 or 6 beat) a strong downward kick should occur when the same side arm is finishing the pull.

Here is a kick timing video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tA8YVwIAvLc

I have a 12 week course which teaches this over about 5 weeks. It's good to take your time. I shouldn't sell stuff here but the link is in my sig line and it costs $19 so basically free.

I really (really) suck at kicking, without fins it'll take me ~75s for 25yd. Improves a lot with fins, but I'm still very slow.

What I can't figure out is how does kicking generate propulsion? Is it the top side of the foot pushing the water back?

Someone pointed out that my legs are pretty rigid when I kick (no bend in the knee), I was under the impression that was good...

 
Is it the top side of the foot pushing the water back

Pretty much this, which is why ankle flexibility is so important.

Someone pointed out that my legs are pretty rigid when I kick (no bend in the knee), I was under the impression that was good.

Not if you want to kick well. You need to bend your knees to kick well, but bend them in a manner that results in propulsion.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

I have been learning this through trail and error in the last few weeks. I started adding 300 swim with fins, and 300 kick-board with fins to my off days. I've also added 4x50 kick (no fins) with board to my cool down on my hard days. The fins help remind me to let my feet "flop" instead of pointing like a gymnast.

I think the 4x50 may be more valuable for kicking. I'm just going to have to do a lot more of it before it "just works". I find that my times go like this: 1:17/1:14/1:12/1:09. Every time, I start WAY slow and make significant gains with each repeat. I start out with that stiff leg flexing at the hip only. Each repeat something gets a little looser, and more whip-ish. Ankles on #2, then knees on #3, then on #4 its better timing of each joint and a little more flop in the feet. I also find that some pidgeon toes seems to help. But, I can't hold that position for very long.

I'm sure more thatn 4x50 would be even better....but, kicking wears me out. I can feel the effects the next day in my running.

New swimmer. My heart rate goes higher during one 50M length of kicking than it does after 200M of swimming or pulling. I've thus concluded I should kick at little as possible and two-beat kick. I'm pretty sure my kick is doing absolutely nothing though, other than maybe getting my feet higher in the water. I have absolutely no idea when I kick. I have no idea if my timing is right or not. Time to ask someone to watch me swim, I guess.

https://www.usms.org/fitness-and-training/articles-and-videos/articles/learning-how-to-kick-so-you-dont-have-to

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#swimmingmatters
Laugh hard. Run fast. Be kind.
The Doctor (#12)

I've concluded exactly the opposite. I assume that my regular swim kick is a lot more like that first 50 @ 1:17, versus my last 50 at 1:09. If proper technique can drop 8 seconds per 50 while JUST kicking, I can only imagine that a well timed propulsive kick will ALSO shave measurable time.

I have the timing down (based on the fin/paddle drill I posted above). But, clearly my technique needs work to add forward propulsion. I'm sure it won't drop 8 seconds per 50, but I'd take 2 if I could get it. I'm 3 seconds away from a personal goal, so...

Here's what I did - go really slow at first. Took a lot of time to re-wire rhythm from the 2/4 of everything else we do. Musicians, drummers will understand what I mean.



I've got these PT paddles in my hands and fins.


It's a lot like run stride timing too, which is way easier.

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