Again - Pinched under the bead for a month with no issue then explodes without warning?

Again: a shredded hole indicates that the tube exited the tire/rim "container" and expanded until it blew. It's pretty clear from your description that is what occurred, and not due to a puncture. Why that exit occurred is not known, but the choices are pretty narrow: the tube slipped under the bead or the tube slipped through a hole in the tire. When you said "most of the way around," did you really mean that (like more than half of the circumference of the wheel)?

It seems reasonable that "topping it off" after it had been on a while was sufficient to cause a pinched tube to finally escape: the tire bead may have become a bit looser, and you finally got enough pressure in the tube to get it to expand and blow.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

Yes, more than half the circumference of the wheel. It sounds like what you are saying is a minor installation error can result in a tube blowing out catastrophically any time even after 100's of miles. If that's the case then I'm going back to butyl.

I just realized I rode IM Lake placid on that tube including the 50 mph+ descent into keene :o




What is the myth here?

In this case I don't buy the pinched tube argument either -- if the tube was pinched I would expect it to blow pretty early on.

Still, the fact is that latex stretches much more than butyl, making it less likely to pinch flat or puncture and offering lower rolling resistance to boot. Of course, latex stretching more also means it'll blow through a much smaller hole than butyl...

I had one fail this summer. It failed between rides at the seam of the valve stem to tube junction or whatever you'd call that. It was nice I wasn't riding when it failed.

I've probably got 10K miles on latex tubes in the last couple years. I've pinch flatted 3 times. Once it destroyed a rim so none of those were the fault of the tube. I also flatted on chipseal when a tiny rock worked it's way through the tire. In all those miles never a spontaneous blow out. I always check for tube under the bead when installing.

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24 Hour World TT Champs-American record holder
Fat Bike Worlds - Race Director
Insta: chris.s.apex

A few thoughts:

- I have seen quite a few post's on here (and some local accounts) concerning Flo's and blowouts/flats and i suspect there might be some rough surfaces or finishing issues that cause this. I am sure the Flo mafia will try and shut this down but i have noticed around 10-12 separate accounts of this exact issue.

- My theory is that if it does not blow right away or within 10-20 minutes it is not the tube at fault but the wheel or something that cause a pinch flat.

- GP 4000's are the only tires i have gotten flats on while racing. I have always ridden Vittoria for road racing but decided to try the 4000's this spring and got three flats, i will never ride them again. One was a puncture, one a pinch flat from some really rough road, the last was a mystery.

- I have seen a few accounts of issues with the Vittoria tubes and they were all around a similar time, i wounder if there was a bad batch? I rode them all year and never had an issue at all, but i also run lower pressure (90-95).

- Ride tubulars, after blowing a clincher during a road race this year i am 100% sold on the benefit of tubulars for safety. My tire blew during a corner of a decent when i hit a slight pot hole and its a miracle that i stayed upright and others around me were attentive.

Yes. At 98-100 psi, it might not be enough to lift the bead. But then I pumped it up to 115 psi to see how much pressure it would hold overnight and middle of the night my wife and I hear a weird noise from the basement. The next morning I find out what the noise was.

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TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com

I used to think the same thing but we would both be mistaken. Seriously, it can and does happen. I found out the hard way when I ate pavement the day before a race..

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...post=1914519#1914519


Verdict was: I installed the tube badly. But along with that was the lesson learnd It is much easier to install a latex tube badly than it is a butyl tube... for the same reasons that makes latex faster. You cannot be as cavalier as you would be with butyl. But it can and happen to Butyl tubes too, even after 100s of miles. Check out this post from the same thread

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...post=1915351#1915351

Again - Pinched under the bead for a month with no issue then explodes without warning?

Unfortunately that is quite possible. I've heard of people discovering that their latex tube was pinched and they'd been riding on it for hundreds of miles.

I hope I'm not jinxing myself, but I don't feel like I do anything that special. > 40k miles using latex tubes with many gratuitous tire swaps. Many different rims and tires.

Powder the tire and tube.
Put a little air in the tube.
Install the first tire bead.
Stick the valve in, then the spot opposite the valve, making sure to split the difference of any excess. Even if the tube seems a little long, I never have any distortions when it's installed like this.
Push the tube/tire up so the tube is on the rim. This is important.
Make sure it is not twisted or doing anything else weird.
Push the valve away from the rim slightly, and start the second bead in that spot.
Work the bead around both sides with your hands, making sure it is in the center of the rim, and pulling it down, ie stretching it.
If you need to use a lever for the last bit, go ahead. I use Pedros Milk levers. Make sure the lever is tight against the rim when you work it in. I manage to never damage a tube.
I'm lazy so the only place I check for a pinched tube is the last place I installed the bead. It's never been pinched... ever.
Push or pull the valve down tight against the rim as you inflate.
Done.

Slightly off topic....., I realize you like heavy wheels ;) but why have both velo plugs and tape? Pick one or other me thinks.

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Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling

My time theory is pretty much useless but after airing up thousands of tires on year while working at a shop if its an install error it tends to happen pretty fast. Also if there is an abrasion or finishing issue it might take extended time for that to puncture/wear through the tube. We had this issue with some Zipps that needed to be sanded down after puncturing several tubes. Also had the same issue on a pair of reynolds before at our shop.

I can say with 100% confidence that on my road racing team two guys purchased Flo's recently who know what the heck they are doing and both had several instances of flats on their first few weeks (one using latex) despite very careful attention. In fact one guy got three flats in a row on the same ride and there was nothing in his tire at all, trust me we all were working on this problem on the side of the road. In the end he suspected that there was a slight rough edge or two and he used some velox+electrical tape and everything is great now. The other rider ended up doing the same thing and he has been fine since as well.

I've had this with latex tubes, butyl tubes, and bad rims. The tubes were user error. The bad rims had a piece of the hook missing(!) I didn't find that problem immediately.


Sounds like the tube got pinched.


Conti tires are "soft". That makes them easier to blow off. They're not the only tires that are "soft".


I've had a (butyl tube) tire blow of the front wheel at 70 km/h. Yes, it's dangerous and slippery to ride downhill on a rim with no tire.

Heavyweight tubes and tires are safer. Lightweight butyl tubes rupture like crazy. Latex tubes are prone to user error.

Tubeless-ready rims tend to have a very tight tire bead <-> rim hook interface, making them a lot safer for blowouts. There's different rim hook designs.

I'll also add that I think the rim hook on wider carbon rims does not grab the bead as well as aluminum narrow rims. Add to that getting some baby powder between the rim and bead...and you make a blow off easier I think. Worse is some chain grease gets in there. I almost wonder if it's worth wiping the rim with alcohol before installation of a new tire and tube.

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TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com

This is still where I'm at. So tempted to try clinchers, less expensive tires, easier to swap for new tires on race day, lower rolling resistance, etc.
But I just can't get past the higher risk of flats (and possible crashes due to flats) with clinchers. :(
No flat tires on my tubulars in training or racing in 3+ years...

Were any of these flats of the "tube was shredded" variety as described by the OP?

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"Go yell at an M&M"

Tubulars also have potential install errors. If it hasn't been glued right you can roll the tire on a corner.

Very very uncommon these days. An unglued tubular, pumped up to pressure, is pretty hard to roll off the rim.

The only time I've had a tire/tube cause an accident in a ride or race (nearing 200k miles now) was when I rolled a tubular in a corner. No problem ever with clinchers.

Don't forget that the heat generated from braking can cause significant pressure changes in the tube. It can also change the flexibility of the tire so it absolutely makes sense that you could have a blow out after hundreds of miles if you reach the right combination of heat and pressure changes that allows the blowout to happen. The key is to be extra vigilant on the tire install and pump/deflate the tire multiple times during the install to ensure the tube is correctly positioned inside the tire.

I was trying to take every precaution I could to be sure I didn't have any issues (we see how well that worked). I was careful installing the tube and also carefully inspected the bead after inflating and saw no signs of a pinched tube. Other than the inflating/deflating several times what do you do to determine if you have the tube trapped under the bead.

I may give latex one more try in the spring and be extra, extra careful installing it and see what happens.

I should add the front has had a latex tube in it all season (I mistakenly said butyl) with no issues and the Flo wheels have an aluminum rim (for the poster who said carbon rims don't hold the bead as well)

What about this from the michelin website:
Do you guys not use latex on carbon wheels?

Recommendations of use of LATEX Inner Tubes:
"Recommendations for use enabling you to take full advantage of the characteristics and high performance of MICHELIN latex inner tubes"
- Every time a tyre is changed or fitted, we recommend fitting a new latex inner tube.
- Each time a tyre is changed or fitted with a MICHELIN Latex inner tube, we recommend the use of a new MICHELIN rim tape.
- Do not use MICHELIN latex inner tubes with carbon fibre rims
- As the Latex inner tube is a very technical product, MICHELIN advise against repairing it.

They left out
-Every MICHELIN time a MICHELIN tyre is changed, please send MICHELIN money.

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float , hammer , and jog

Since the other 3 "recommendations" are laughable, I'm go to guess that the carbon prohibition makes no sense either. Zipp did some testing and verified that heat wasn't a specific issue with latex, since the rim tape would melt first.

Lightweight writes in their manual not to use Latex tubes for their carbon clincher.

Seems like a good idea to follow the instructions of the manufacturer.