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Lanzarote, France or Austria IM?
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Hello,
Wondering if anyone has raced or spectated the Canary Islands, France or Klagenfurt races, particularly if you're from the US.

Am looking for an early season full, would be my fifth, and these three stuck out as cool options. Would be looking at probably a mid to high 11 hour race, fwiw. Average swimmer, piss poor cyclist, not a terrible runner.

Traveling from the Boston area, wondering about logistics as well in addition to the race/venue.

Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
CR
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Re: Lanzarote, France or Austria IM? [RIVTDC] [ In reply to ]
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I've spectacled Lanza and biked the island.
Very pretty, and very nice roads for cycling. Nice sea swim too. The biking is with a lot of climbing and it will be windy, or very windy (discs are highly adviced against, and most athletes take a wheel with low rims as their front wheel). The run is along the boulevard, first a big loop and then 2 shorter ones. On the shorter ones there is quite a crowd, on extended bit on the first not so much. It is advertised at the toughest ironman in the world, mostly because of the biking. The climbs on Lanza aren't that steep, but there are some long long climbs on the course. If your cycling is bad because you're a bad climber, I wouldn't chose Lanza. If your climbing is just as good as the rest of your biking, Lanza could make a nice holiday trip and race.

I understand Nice has a considerable amount of climbing as well.
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Re: Lanzarote, France or Austria IM? [RIVTDC] [ In reply to ]
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Lanzarote is very windy and hilly, the run is hot. Registration is generally possible until quite near to the date of the race.

Austria is generally sold out quickly, as it is now already. Registration could be still possible as a package with Nirvana. The bike is generally acknowledged as fast or "easy".

The Nice bike seems to be a mountain stage.
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Re: Lanzarote, France or Austria IM? [RIVTDC] [ In reply to ]
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All of these races will be good.
I think you really should ask what you want to do AFTER the race.
Lanzarote has the least amount of options, but hanging out on a island can be pretty cool if that is your thing.
France. Do I need to say more?
Klagenfurt would be my choice. Go north to Graz, Vienna or go south to Ljubljana and Zagreb and then down the Croatian coast. Budapest is nice too. Or north through Austria to Munich. So many good options.
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Re: Lanzarote, France or Austria IM? [RIVTDC] [ In reply to ]
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I have done Lanzarote six times and Austria once. That should tell you which is my preference! Not done France but its on my list.

Lanzarote is a hard slow course and a real challenge. Great island full of family type resorts, good support for the race and a great place to relax once the race is over. Sea swim is never as bad as it sounds, I have always done well at this swim and I am a 1:15ish swimmer for benchmark. Bike can be brutal if its windy, and very hard if its not. Hilly, hot - the island is famous for its wind - and the course is very open with no respite. The run is on hard concrete most of the way on the seafront in the middle of the day. Its a very hard run off the bike even if its virtually flat.

Austria is a surprisingly fast course, can be hot or cold that time of year and less in the way of a holiday venue after the race. Again great support locally for this race and the swim is surprisingly easy with the last 800m being up a canal which is fun. The bike is undulating on great tarmac with long fast flowing descents. It can be a PB bike course if you can get up the little hills that are there efficiently. The run is fairly easy, mainly flat with lots of support. Drafting can be a big annoyance at Austria.

If your bike is your weak link - I would suggest Austria every time. Lanzarote will be a killer course if you are a weak biker. Austria will also give you the lowest overall finishing time if that is important to you. If you want a challenge and to know just how good you are against others - Lanzarote every time. Very little drafting - hard bike leaves you to understand exactly how fit./fast you are on the run. Great way to compare yourself against others but you will always get a slower finishing time on this course.

I believe France is like Lanzarote on the bike for hills but not as hot. Cannot comment on the race atmosphere though.

If you choose Lanza PM me I know some great places to stay - and also where not to stay ha ha!

He who understands the WHY, will understand the HOW.
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Re: Lanzarote, France or Austria IM? [earthling] [ In reply to ]
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Earthling sums it up pretty well, but I would qualify this with a warning that June can be very hot in Nice. The bike course has a lot of climbing but its not as hard as Lanza and wind is unlikely to be a factor.
Both sea swims.
Lanza run is a bit more undulating, Nice is pretty flat 4 laps down to the airport and back, as I said, potential to be very hot.

Deceptively slow.
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Re: Lanzarote, France or Austria IM? [RIVTDC] [ In reply to ]
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I'm not sure about Austria but Lanzarote is noted and statistically the hardest IM course in the circuit, even compared to Kona. France isn't too far behind, even though the run is flat it is usually quite hot. Given your notes, I would NOT pick Nice. Even though the bike course is probably the most beautiful, scenic course (and one loop!) on the circuit, it has a 12 miles long Hors Categorie climb in the first half that will break a poor cyclist. I'm pretty sure Lanzarote won't be easy either. Given that, if those are your 3 choices, seems Austria is the lesser of the 3 evils even without looking at the course profile...

Oh and btw, when I did Nice, I was the same as you with regards to average/poor/not too terrible. I think I did maybe 7:12 on the bike, but while I suffered tremendously, I absolutely loved the course due to the scenery. Just make sure you practice both climbing and descending in preparation for it.

808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo
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Re: Lanzarote, France or Austria IM? [RIVTDC] [ In reply to ]
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I've done Austria. Really pretty race and a fast course. Parts of it felt like stage of the Tour with tons of spectators lining a hill shouting, "Hup, Hup, Bravo." Hardest part was not training too much before the race because it was so scenic and the roads were so nice for cycling. I was living near NYC at time and it was pretty easy - flew to Frankfurt and then short flight from there to Klagenfort.
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Re: Lanzarote, France or Austria IM? [hadukla] [ In reply to ]
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hadukla wrote:
I'm not sure about Austria but Lanzarote is noted and statistically the hardest IM course in the circuit, even compared to Kona. France isn't too far behind, even though the run is flat it is usually quite hot. Given your notes, I would NOT pick Nice. Even though the bike course is probably the most beautiful, scenic course (and one loop!) on the circuit, it has a 12 miles long Hors Categorie climb in the first half that will break a poor cyclist. I'm pretty sure Lanzarote won't be easy either. Given that, if those are your 3 choices, seems Austria is the lesser of the 3 evils even without looking at the course profile...

Actually, since IM Wales was introduced, Lanzarote is "merely" the second hardest course on the Ironman circuit ... statistically speaking of course. https://www.trirating.com/course-ratings/
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Re: Lanzarote, France or Austria IM? [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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HuffNPuff wrote:
hadukla wrote:
I'm not sure about Austria but Lanzarote is noted and statistically the hardest IM course in the circuit, even compared to Kona. France isn't too far behind, even though the run is flat it is usually quite hot. Given your notes, I would NOT pick Nice. Even though the bike course is probably the most beautiful, scenic course (and one loop!) on the circuit, it has a 12 miles long Hors Categorie climb in the first half that will break a poor cyclist. I'm pretty sure Lanzarote won't be easy either. Given that, if those are your 3 choices, seems Austria is the lesser of the 3 evils even without looking at the course profile...


Actually, since IM Wales was introduced, Lanzarote is "merely" the second hardest course on the Ironman circuit ... statistically speaking of course. https://www.trirating.com/course-ratings/

Oh wow... thanks for noting. I have to imagine it is an absolutely brutal profile since it has to make up for the heat factor in lanzarote...

808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo
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Re: Lanzarote, France or Austria IM? [hadukla] [ In reply to ]
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I've done all three. Lanza is by far the most difficult and Austria the easiest, though still harder than the US races I've done in terms of climbing (Boulder, Wisconsin, Lou). France is between Lanza and Austria. All three venues are amazing in different ways and would recommend them in a heartbeat. One thing to look into in advance: flights to Lanza. I flew from Chicago and had overnight layovers both directions in Dublin, which sucked big time.

After Lanza, no bike course will scare you, which is a nice side-effect.
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Re: Lanzarote, France or Austria IM? [hadukla] [ In reply to ]
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hadukla wrote:
HuffNPuff wrote:
hadukla wrote:
I'm not sure about Austria but Lanzarote is noted and statistically the hardest IM course in the circuit, even compared to Kona. France isn't too far behind, even though the run is flat it is usually quite hot. Given your notes, I would NOT pick Nice. Even though the bike course is probably the most beautiful, scenic course (and one loop!) on the circuit, it has a 12 miles long Hors Categorie climb in the first half that will break a poor cyclist. I'm pretty sure Lanzarote won't be easy either. Given that, if those are your 3 choices, seems Austria is the lesser of the 3 evils even without looking at the course profile...


Actually, since IM Wales was introduced, Lanzarote is "merely" the second hardest course on the Ironman circuit ... statistically speaking of course. https://www.trirating.com/course-ratings/


Oh wow... thanks for noting. I have to imagine it is an absolutely brutal profile since it has to make up for the heat factor in lanzarote...

Can confirm.. that whole f'ing course feels like it's uphill.
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Re: Lanzarote, France or Austria IM? [WelshinPhilly] [ In reply to ]
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Wales has uphill in the run as well, so that might make up for the weather difference. And it could of course be rainy and cold there. Overall it's a hilly course. Doing it again next year, but Lanza and Klagenfurt are also on the list of races that sound like fun.
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Re: Lanzarote, France or Austria IM? [BigBoyND] [ In reply to ]
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BigBoyND wrote:
After Lanza, no bike course will scare you, which is a nice side-effect.

Embrunman.
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Re: Lanzarote, France or Austria IM? [NordicSkier] [ In reply to ]
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NordicSkier wrote:
BigBoyND wrote:
After Lanza, no bike course will scare you, which is a nice side-effect.


Embrunman.

Knew I shoouldn't have used a superlative. I've done 14 IM's on 13 courses and that is still the only one that I wouldn't feel confident entering.
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Re: Lanzarote, France or Austria IM? [BigBoyND] [ In reply to ]
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BigBoyND wrote:
NordicSkier wrote:
BigBoyND wrote:
After Lanza, no bike course will scare you, which is a nice side-effect.


Embrunman.


Knew I shoouldn't have used a superlative. I've done 14 IM's on 13 courses and that is still the only one that I wouldn't feel confident entering.

I've done Alpe D'Huez triathlon. It has 3200m of climbing in 120km. It cracked me worse than any IM I've done.
A lot of these new extreme triathlons have ridiculous bike course. Embrunman was probably the original extreme triathlon... I think it has close to 5000m of ascent. Uggh.
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Re: Lanzarote, France or Austria IM? [RIVTDC] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for help everybody. No decisions yet, but this is definitely helpful.
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Re: Lanzarote, France or Austria IM? [NordicSkier] [ In reply to ]
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NordicSkier wrote:
BigBoyND wrote:
NordicSkier wrote:
BigBoyND wrote:
After Lanza, no bike course will scare you, which is a nice side-effect.


Embrunman.


Knew I shoouldn't have used a superlative. I've done 14 IM's on 13 courses and that is still the only one that I wouldn't feel confident entering.


I've done Alpe D'Huez triathlon. It has 3200m of climbing in 120km. It cracked me worse than any IM I've done.
A lot of these new extreme triathlons have ridiculous bike course. Embrunman was probably the original extreme triathlon... I think it has close to 5000m of ascent. Uggh.

No. The organisers advertise the race with 5000m of ascent on the bike but there really is 3500m. If you want 5000m of ascent on the bike in France, you have to switch from the Alps to the Pyrenees and race the Altriman, a less-known but superb extreme iron distance tri.
To be complete, there are no "hors categorie" climbs on the Nice bike course. The main climb is long but nowhere near steep enough to earn that label.
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Re: Lanzarote, France or Austria IM? [RIVTDC] [ In reply to ]
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I would answer you, in the same way than the rest:
- Swim course: Lanzarote is normally and easy swim WITH MASSIVE START. I enjoyed it a lot. With swimsuit. Nice is the more difficult swim, the water is hotter, and it could be without swimsuit and it could have "waves". Austria is a lake, also could be without swimsuit, but it is calm water.
- Bike course: Lanzarote is not only the amount of climbing meters, also the road is not "easy to roll", and it is between windy, too windy and f**@ng windy!. But the landscape is magic, it is like cycling in the moon, you have also different zones, very different one to others... it is a funny course. Nice is a mountain road, very beauty too. Austria is a fast course.
- Run course: three are easy to run, I would see that lanzarote temperature is hot.. but not so much as it could be in Nice or Austria. In Lanzarote only the wind is a surprise, temperature is very stable. In Nice you normally will find hot... and in Austria you don't know.

- Austria is sold out, you will have to pay Nirvana fees (if there is still places). Lanzarote you could join when you want. And in NIce almost the same.

- Lanzarote is a Island, you could also visit other Canary Islands: La Palma is also a beauty paradise.. but you have also El Hierro (to diving or snorkel), Fuerteventura... it would be more a nature tourismus let say. But if you flight by Madrid or Barcelona in the way back, you could also have cultural visits. Austria and France, you could do also cultural visits.

- France with Spain are top3 world toruistic leaders, that mean you have plenty of options to visit.

- Lanzarote is the cheapest place to stay, plenty of options of Hotels and Condos, easy logistic, very comfortable for participants and spectators. Nice and Austria are much more complicate (Austria doesn't have an airport even close, and to go from Hotels to start you will need a car). Nice is expensive, is luxury destination).

In your case I will plan the complete travel.. and I would choose the most complete option, three races are good options, I would say to do three!!!

Lanzarote (in my opinion) is harder but more special, I would say that if you are not afraid of though courses and you will accept that it will take 30-60minutes longer.. take this option. You will enjoy and remember for long.

If you will enjoy more a "tour de france" bike course, and to stay in a Top destination, and stay and visit the south coast of France... you will take the Nice.

And Austria, if you will enjoy one of the fastest races in the Ironman calendar. And your family will enjoy the "Sissi Empire" (Vien, Prague, Budapest... )
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Re: Lanzarote, France or Austria IM? [tof] [ In reply to ]
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tof wrote:
NordicSkier wrote:
BigBoyND wrote:
NordicSkier wrote:
BigBoyND wrote:
After Lanza, no bike course will scare you, which is a nice side-effect.


Embrunman.


Knew I shoouldn't have used a superlative. I've done 14 IM's on 13 courses and that is still the only one that I wouldn't feel confident entering.


I've done Alpe D'Huez triathlon. It has 3200m of climbing in 120km. It cracked me worse than any IM I've done.
A lot of these new extreme triathlons have ridiculous bike course. Embrunman was probably the original extreme triathlon... I think it has close to 5000m of ascent. Uggh.


No. The organisers advertise the race with 5000m of ascent on the bike but there really is 3500m. If you want 5000m of ascent on the bike in France, you have to switch from the Alps to the Pyrenees and race the Altriman, a less-known but superb extreme iron distance tri.
To be complete, there are no "hors categorie" climbs on the Nice bike course. The main climb is long but nowhere near steep enough to earn that label.

No. Embrunman is definitely over 4200m. I've seen enough GPS files. Yes, Altriman has more.
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Re: Lanzarote, France or Austria IM? [NordicSkier] [ In reply to ]
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NordicSkier wrote:
tof wrote:
NordicSkier wrote:
BigBoyND wrote:
NordicSkier wrote:
BigBoyND wrote:
After Lanza, no bike course will scare you, which is a nice side-effect.


Embrunman.


Knew I shoouldn't have used a superlative. I've done 14 IM's on 13 courses and that is still the only one that I wouldn't feel confident entering.


I've done Alpe D'Huez triathlon. It has 3200m of climbing in 120km. It cracked me worse than any IM I've done.
A lot of these new extreme triathlons have ridiculous bike course. Embrunman was probably the original extreme triathlon... I think it has close to 5000m of ascent. Uggh.


No. The organisers advertise the race with 5000m of ascent on the bike but there really is 3500m. If you want 5000m of ascent on the bike in France, you have to switch from the Alps to the Pyrenees and race the Altriman, a less-known but superb extreme iron distance tri.
To be complete, there are no "hors categorie" climbs on the Nice bike course. The main climb is long but nowhere near steep enough to earn that label.


No. Embrunman is definitely over 4200m. I've seen enough GPS files. Yes, Altriman has more.

You might want to discuss this topic in the forum here. That's the equivalent to Slowtwitch in France (where I live). Overall climbing is overestimated by GPS watches that have no embedded barometric altimeter. Embrunman is 300/400m for the run and 3550m for the bike. 3800 for the most enthusiastic watches.
Your 3200m for Alpe d'Huez is correct.
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Re: Lanzarote, France or Austria IM? [tof] [ In reply to ]
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True story... At the time when not everybody had a GPS, Embrun was advertised as having 3500m of D+... then came the time of GPS and D+ was magically upwarded to 5000m... so 3500m it is... but if you want to compare Embrun to any other race, you probably should take 5000, as D+ for Lanza, Nice, Alpes d'Huez etc. etc are aaall upward biased too... no?
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Re: Lanzarote, France or Austria IM? [RIVTDC] [ In reply to ]
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I did Austria and enjoyed it, although my performance wasn't great.
The lake is fantastic. Like swimming in spring water. The cycle route has changed in the last year or two i think but the previous route was good. It was a tougher cycle than I expected having always heard it was a fast route, but maybe that was just the day i was having. The run is very flat and quite pleasant through the town and along the lake with lots of spectators (pre-Covid anyway!). Certainly a nice option.
I've done a half distance in Lanzarote and also cycled a few times there and Tenerife. The Canaries are probably more likely to deliver a windy cycle and some tough climbs, so if you're a poor cyclist and want it easy....nah!
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Re: Lanzarote, France or Austria IM? [Ai_1] [ In reply to ]
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I can only comment on Austria, which I did in 2005. The biggest challenge is not overdoing it the week before the race if you arrive early. It is so gorgeous and such a great place to run, bike, and swim, that it is hard to stop yourself from doing way too much of that when you should be tapering.
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Re: Lanzarote, France or Austria IM? [RIVTDC] [ In reply to ]
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I've raced Klagenfurt. Probably the most scenic and therefore enjoyable race I have done.
Among my favorite memories: using a mountain peak for sighting during the swim and running through a biergarten with Austrians coaxing us to jump up and ring a bell.
I've heard good things about Lanzaroate. It is a very challenging course.
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