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Re: Lance claims unfair treatment [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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I don't believe he's been "treated unfairly."

This is just funny...


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Re: Lance claims unfair treatment [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
pick6 wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
Ben, Dan,

I think it is totally irrelevant what Lance is motivated by. The rest of us can't do anything with the motivations of any human (well, if we are in charge of them, we can channel the motivation for a fruitful outcome, but none of us are in charge of Lance). What is important with him or anyone is the actions he/they take. Motivation is only an abstract catalyst inside someone's brain. Their actions are what the rest of the world experiences. I think we are in agreement on what actions he needs to take moving forward to help sport and clean the mess up. Trying to figure out his motivations are a waste of time. They don't really affect us. His actions do.

Dev


My point is his actions thus far don't prove anything has changed with him, and that there's no factual basis to defend Dan's opinion.


I agree, there have been no material actions to change the future YET. That's all we all want to see. The truth is fine and it can some out when it does. We just want actions to change the future. I don't really care what his personal motivations are (well, I do, but as I can't control his motivations, there is no point losing sleep over it...heck, I can't even influence what my son is motivated by....he is his own man and derives his motivations from things that make him click...)

The truth is the ONLY thing that matters. Without the truth, you can have no change. His actions all revolve around how much truth he'll reveal; I'm willing to believe for now that he's holding back stuff that he thinks is the most valuable for him to get the best deal. If he passes on the option to speak to USADA and instead looks to talk to UCI, that will tell us a lot. I dont believe for a second he wants truth; he wants only reconciliation and he's only willing to give enough truth to get that.
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Re: Lance claims unfair treatment [pick6] [ In reply to ]
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We can have all the truth we want, but there have to be some actions that follow that to change anything. You and I don't need to know the truth although it would be nice. Some people in the sport and governing bodies do so that they can start the change process. Unless you are getting involved, it is somewhat irrelevant other than it making you feel better (which is fine, but that's not material to changing the sport for the better). Let's see some actions...from Lance from the UCI, from the rest of the postal crew who are really doing nothing. Actually I take that back. Michael Barry is doing something, here in Canada so that other kids don't end up having to face the same choice as him. What is Levi doing? What is George doing? What is Lance doing? For now I just see a big goose egg. I'm willing to give them some time to implement some kind of action plan.
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Re: Lance claims unfair treatment [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
We can have all the truth we want, but there have to be some actions that follow that to change anything. You and I don't need to know the truth although it would be nice. Some people in the sport and governing bodies do so that they can start the change process. Unless you are getting involved, it is somewhat irrelevant other than it making you feel better (which is fine, but that's not material to changing the sport for the better). Let's see some actions...from Lance from the UCI, from the rest of the postal crew who are really doing nothing. Actually I take that back. Michael Barry is doing something, here in Canada so that other kids don't end up having to face the same choice as him. What is Levi doing? What is George doing? What is Lance doing? For now I just see a big goose egg. I'm willing to give them some time to implement some kind of action plan.

Im not talking about public truth, though I think that transparency would be required for that person to return to racing. I specifically talked about to authorities such as USADA. Vaughters, VDV, and DZ have been doing something as well as Michael Barry. I agree, Levi, lance, and george have barely even talked the talk let alone walk the walk. Vaughters has made sure he's got a clean development team (though due to funding that appears to be going away) VDV and DZ have been speaking out, though right now during the suspensions they're doing the right thing and just staying away. I will be interested to see what Tommy D does upon his return. he's the one garmin guy involved in this who hasn't done much IMO and has often said the wrong thing. David Millar, though not part of the postal mess, as much as he said some dumb shit before he got caught, especially to floyd, he's on the WADA AC, and he's been putting tough questions to UCI. That Vaughters gives these reformed guys a place to ride and that the other formal posties on his team both race under that set of rules and support him says they're doing stuff in the pro ranks to make it better.
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Re: Lance claims unfair treatment [TerramarMan] [ In reply to ]
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I agree, david, did a nice job of describing the cast of characters in this drama. Tygarts hyperfocus on LA reminds me of Captain Ahab's pursuit of Moby-Dick. It's not good for his health. IMHO.


Last edited by: TriBeer: Feb 1, 13 8:27
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Re: Lance claims unfair treatment [pick6] [ In reply to ]
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Your last paragraph is dead on. And if it's only partial truth it is really no truth at all.
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Re: Lance claims unfair treatment [monty] [ In reply to ]
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Well said-also, I've always wondered why she was in the room while a medical history was being taken and/or why she repeated confidential information/
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Re: Lance claims unfair treatment [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Dan you really seem to side with Lance on everything I read. I'm aware you "know him" so I can understand that.

I personally cannot see why anyone would have a problem with Lance getting the "death penalty." He's unquestionably been involved in one of the most sophisticated drug scandals in the history of sport, has taken millions that he didn't deserve (due to the cheating), and crushed lives of those in his way which is the worst in my opinion! I just don't get how ANYONE can possibly side with him on any issue...period.

That said....lol....a small part of me wouldn't mind seeing him compete in Kona...lol....but then again I know any sort of performance he puts forth is either drug enduced from the past or present or both!

Apex Cycling - Team Manager
Insta: chris.s.apex
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Re: Lance claims unfair treatment [cmscat50] [ In reply to ]
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". . ."death penalty." (cmscat50)

Are you serious?

It's this type of rhetoric that distorts the issue.
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Re: Lance claims unfair treatment [Steve-oH!] [ In reply to ]
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What a cold horrible human he is. He hurt so many people beyong his own lying about PEDs. And now he just wants sympathy and consideration to further his own selfish desires...

Lance just needs to go. Away. Now.

My body does rise up and says "I think we've done all we can for today." To which I reply, "No."
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Re: Lance claims unfair treatment [TriBeer] [ In reply to ]
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You do realized that in the context of sports, death penalty does not mean the same as the judical definition, right?

What he is stating (i.e., death penalty) isn't rhetoric. It is the current reality for Lance (i.e., he is banned from the sport). Look up SMU to see what the death penalty involves when it comes to NCAA sports.

TriBeer wrote:
". . ."death penalty." (cmscat50)

Are you serious?

It's this type of rhetoric that distorts the issue.


__________________________________________________________________________
My marathon PR is "under three, high twos. I had a two hour and fifty-something."
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Re: Lance claims unfair treatment [TriBeer] [ In reply to ]
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Tribeer,

You are so amuzing. Now you cannot longer claim that Lance is innocent but you hang on to the witchhunt theme apparently - for how long?
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Re: Lance claims unfair treatment [frenchfried] [ In reply to ]
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frenchfried wrote:
Well said-also, I've always wondered why she was in the room while a medical history was being taken and/or why she repeated confidential information/
She was a friend of Lance's visiting him in his hospital room. When the doc came in they offered to leave but Lance said it was OK to stay. LA evidently didn't expect her to talk about his conversation with the doctor to others. She didn't feel the need to keep the contents of that conversation private.
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Re: Lance claims unfair treatment [gregf83] [ In reply to ]
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Pretty sure she gave up the info in a deposition, so no real choice. Frankly I'm amazed a Dr any Dr would take a patirent history with a group of friends in the room.

Styrrell
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Re: Lance claims unfair treatment [gregf83] [ In reply to ]
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gregf83 wrote:
frenchfried wrote:
Well said-also, I've always wondered why she was in the room while a medical history was being taken and/or why she repeated confidential information/
She was a friend of Lance's visiting him in his hospital room. When the doc came in they offered to leave but Lance said it was OK to stay. LA evidently didn't expect her to talk about his conversation with the doctor to others. She didn't feel the need to keep the contents of that conversation private.

Actually, she spilled the beans while being deposed during the SCA hearings and if she hadn't tell the truth she would have committed perjury. So there you go, one more person who only spoke up when their back was against the wall...
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Re: Lance claims unfair treatment [vo3 max] [ In reply to ]
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vo3 max wrote:
gregf83 wrote:
frenchfried wrote:
Well said-also, I've always wondered why she was in the room while a medical history was being taken and/or why she repeated confidential information/
She was a friend of Lance's visiting him in his hospital room. When the doc came in they offered to leave but Lance said it was OK to stay. LA evidently didn't expect her to talk about his conversation with the doctor to others. She didn't feel the need to keep the contents of that conversation private.


Actually, she spilled the beans while being deposed during the SCA hearings and if she hadn't tell the truth she would have committed perjury. So there you go, one more person who only spoke up when their back was against the wall...
That appears to be a commonly held misbelief. Why do you think she was deposed? Do you think the prosecutors went on a fishing expedition and interviewed everyone who might have ever had a conversation with Lance and/or his doctor?

The reason she was required to testify in the trial was because much earlier she had talked about the private conversation to her friends and others and eventually that news became public, perhaps with the aid of David Walsh.

Apparently she was extremely anti-doping and wasn't happy that LA had been doping. I don't think she knew her hubby was doping at that time.
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Re: Lance claims unfair treatment [zoom] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you. I learned something new. :)
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Re: Lance claims unfair treatment [TriBeer] [ In reply to ]
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Those were Lance's words not mine....that's why I used the quotation marks.

Apex Cycling - Team Manager
Insta: chris.s.apex
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Re: Lance claims unfair treatment [andreasjs] [ In reply to ]
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I'm truly concerned for Tygart. He does not look healthy and he comes across as a zealot. I wish he would tone it down a bit. He loses some of his credibility with the things he says and his actions. Like david's young daughter said, "he doesn't look nice ." Sorry, but she is right.

Tygart's goal is to clean up sports and not just go after one person.

Note: I'm glad I amuse you though. I do try. :)
Last edited by: TriBeer: Feb 1, 13 11:40
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Re: Lance claims unfair treatment [cmscat50] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you for the explanation. I learn something everyday.
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Re: Lance claims unfair treatment [gregf83] [ In reply to ]
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gregf83 wrote:
frenchfried wrote:
Well said-also, I've always wondered why she was in the room while a medical history was being taken and/or why she repeated confidential information/
She was a friend of Lance's visiting him in his hospital room. When the doc came in they offered to leave but Lance said it was OK to stay. LA evidently didn't expect her to talk about his conversation with the doctor to others. She didn't feel the need to keep the contents of that conversation private.
More accurate could be, she cannot keep that little secret, especially after Lance had talked so openly about it.
She could have speculated and be concerned by Lance's cancer : might it be caused by his doping? And what about Frankie?

So we can imagine she has talked around her, with innocence. Later the boomerang came back for Betzy and Lance.

Difficult to keep a secret in that condition, that is Lance' s second mistake.
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Re: Lance claims unfair treatment [gregf83] [ In reply to ]
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gregf83 wrote:
That appears to be a commonly held misbelief. Why do you think she was deposed? Do you think the prosecutors went on a fishing expedition and interviewed everyone who might have ever had a conversation with Lance and/or his doctor?

The reason she was required to testify in the trial was because much earlier she had talked about the private conversation to her friends and others and eventually that news became public, perhaps with the aid of David Walsh.

Apparently she was extremely anti-doping and wasn't happy that LA had been doping. I don't think she knew her hubby was doping at that time.


This is accurate. Frankie lied to her at the time. The minute they stepped out of the hospital room she said "If you're doing that shit the wedding is off" to Frankie, and he lied. He had for the past year plus, been fighting being part of the system but went along to that point because Lance had made it clear that guys who werent going along were getting canned.
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Re: Lance claims unfair treatment [pick6] [ In reply to ]
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He had for the past year plus, been fighting being part of the system but went along to that point because Lance had made it clear that guys who werent going along were getting canned. //

I don't think Lance deserves all the blame for Frankie dropping out of cycling. Lance had control over his team, there were 25 other teams out there to ride for. The real problem for Frankie was that in order to be good enough to ride on "any" team, he was going to have to most likely dope. It was the peleton that canned him really. IF he could have ridden clean and been good enough, he could have rode on another team. To put his whole career demise on Lance only seems a little harsh to me. Lance just sent the same message that every other team was sending out to each and every rider, either blatant or implied..
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Re: Lance claims unfair treatment [monty] [ In reply to ]
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OK, but how many of those other pro teams are based in the US, i.e., within Tygart's bailiwick? So again, whoever was the 'bad cop' on Telekom, Rabo, Mapei, etc, isn't USADA's problem. Lance was That Guy on Postal (along w/ JB, who also was/is charged similarly to LA, not as a simple end-user like the other riders.) So, this whole "unfair witch hunt" meme is BS... LA was the Don, par for the course.
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Re: Lance claims unfair treatment [OneGoodLeg] [ In reply to ]
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OK, but how many of those other pro teams are based in the US, i.e., within Tygart's bailiwick?//

WHat does that have to do with whether Frakie could have gotten a job on any of the other teams? I'm not getting your point. Lance made sure he did not ride on his team, but it was a free market out there. IF he was good enough he could have gone to dozens of other teams, unless you think Lance controled all the teams? Now that would be some serious conspiracy shit...
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