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Re: Lance claims unfair treatment [ike] [ In reply to ]
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ike wrote:
If you agree to build me a house for $300k and the contract specifies that no drug users will be in the construction crew and you build me a great house and I discover later that there was a doper on the crew, what do you owe me? Do I get the house for free? That is crazy. My injury is nowhere close to the full contract price.

Same with Lance. Only a tiny fraction of the USPS money was used for dope. The rest was used to go cycling, exactly what USPS contracted for. There is a reasonable argument for returning the money used in doping. There is no reasonable argument to return the whole thing. USPS is not entitled to the free labor of the cycling team for all those years. It got the benefit of that bargain and should not now be asking for all the money back.

The law is complex, but this is not.


You dont know how much money was used to dope, and neither do I. We do know that lance had guys on the team not take bonuses so they could buy more drugs. So, if they were not paying several bonuses per year how much of that was USPS money? USPS money was supposed to be the primary source of rider salary. the feds have a lot of those financials, not all of them, of course because you dont write "drug deal" in your budget when you go buy drugs. But we know salary/bonus money was being diverted to drugs.

Im not saying USPS will get full value back, Im saying there are reasons contracts include morals clauses in sports. Dont be surprised if he has to settle most of these lawsuits for a lot more than youre expecting. Did USPS get a lot of good back then? Well now they're getting a hell of a lot of bad. You rarely hear just Lance armstrong, you hear Lance Armstrong and his postal service team.
Last edited by: pick6: Feb 5, 13 17:10
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Re: Lance claims unfair treatment [pick6] [ In reply to ]
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pick6 wrote:
"We" wouldnt have doped in the first place. Of course, you've never considered it from that point of view.

Very good, but in the real world this was the reality of most of the peloton, and certainly the teams competing at the GC level. That was the context of what Lance was dealing with. So was he just going to pack up the team and go home because Betsy and Oreilly decided to talk? People need to have a little perspective.
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Re: Lance claims unfair treatment [CensoredCyclist] [ In reply to ]
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CensoredCyclist wrote:
pick6 wrote:
"We" wouldnt have doped in the first place. Of course, you've never considered it from that point of view.


Very good, but in the real world this was the reality of most of the peloton, and certainly the teams competing at the GC level. That was the context of what Lance was dealing with. So was he just going to pack up the team and go home because Betsy and Oreilly decided to talk? People need to have a little perspective.


No. People need to have more backbone and moral fortitude, like Betsy, Like Oreilly. He chose to dope. Unlike the team working for him, no one forced him. He's never made that claim. There was plenty of success to be had back in the US. People talk about all the money, but imagine Lance for a second, clean. He was always a little better than his 82 VO2Max, even before the serious drugs. He had a fight in him that we've seen be his undoing. Imagine, then instead of doping if he'd raised the profile of US racing for all those years by racing here. Where would we be now? Do you think Philadelphia would have been shuttered? Would Battenkill now be a Gran Fondo? probably not. The thing you don't understand is Lance never had to win the TdF to do great things, it's just what he chose.

I talk about this alternate reality, because you have always assumed this was the only way things could have gone for lance. The perspective people need to have is that winning at all costs isnt really winning and he's seeing that now. He wonders why Floyd won't answer the phone; he wonders why just because Frankie said he sounded contrite doesnt mean they're going to forgive him anytime soon.
Last edited by: pick6: Feb 5, 13 17:17
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Re: Lance claims unfair treatment [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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I agree with many of your posts, but your take on Lance I find disappointing.

If Lance was truly sorry for his actions, would he not be willing to hand back all that dirty money to charity with perhaps some of this money going to the people who's lives he caused trama to? The guy still flies his private jet, has multiple homes and is worth over $100M - all dirty money from his actions.

If Lance was truly sorry for his actions, he would not even think about bringing up the topic of his "right" to compete again. He should be happy with people just be willing to say hello to him.

If Lance was truly sorry for his actions, he would not challenge the lawsuit to pay back to money to the newspaper and insurance company.

If Lance was truly sorry for his actions, he would see it as his priority to work with the USADA rather than saying his schedule is busy and the meeting cannot be attended before Feb 6. He was given PLENTY of notice to change his schedule to accommodate something you would think would be of utmost priority.

I would love to rob a bank if I knew I could keep most of the money with no criminal charges.

Friends and supporters of Lance truly need to wake up. Justice is far from being served here and I hope the prick (because there is no better word to describe your friend) suffers in a lonesome state for many years until he may finally decide to show remorse and make amends with the people he has hurt in a proper way.

________________
Adrian in Vancouver
Last edited by: AJHull: Feb 5, 13 17:21
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Re: Lance claims unfair treatment [pick6] [ In reply to ]
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pick6 wrote:
Wrong. He waived doctor patient confidentiality when he let her stay in the room. He knows this. It's why he won't admit it happened, because then the doctor will likely be sanctioned for falsifying medical records.

Firstly, this would not be the case nowadays as I understand it. The Hippa rules would stop people like Betsy from passing on private information to third parties. But I never stated it in legal terms. Most people consider the privacy of someone's conversations with a doctor to be a moral issue. If we were priviledged enough to be at the bedside of someone who has just had brain surgery and was partly sedated, we wouldn't dream of passing on that info.
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Re: Lance claims unfair treatment [pick6] [ In reply to ]
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"Dont be surprised if he has to settle most of these lawsuits for a lot more than youre expecting."

Isn't that the definition of a surprise?

Anyhow, yes, you're right that the lawsuits could take a turn against Lance. I was just arguing what should happen, not what will happen. The law in this area is murky and Lance certainly has not won himself a lot friends lately.
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Re: Lance claims unfair treatment [pick6] [ In reply to ]
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pick6 wrote:
No. People need to have more backbone and moral fortitude, like Betsy, Like Oreilly. He chose to dope. Unlike the team working for him, no one forced him. He's never made that claim. There was plenty of success to be had back in the US. People talk about all the money, but imagine Lance for a second, clean. He was always a little better than his 82 VO2Max, even before the serious drugs. He had a fight in him that we've seen be his undoing. Imagine, then instead of doping if he'd raised the profile of US racing for all those years by racing here. Where would we be now? Do you think Philadelphia would have been shuttered? Would Battenkill now be a Gran Fondo? probably not. The thing you don't understand is Lance never had to win the TdF to do great things, it's just what he chose.

I talk about this alternate reality, because you have always assumed this was the only way things could have gone for lance. The perspective people need to have is that winning at all costs isnt really winning and he's seeing that now. He wonders why Floyd won't answer the phone; he wonders why just because Frankie said he sounded contrite doesnt mean they're going to forgive him anytime soon.

As stated, anyone who wanted to be a on top team in the top race of the era had to dope. Many riders doped before they rode with Armstrong. The rest continued to dope after they left, some at higher levels. Nobody was forced.

You're seriously trying to spin it that Armstrong is responsible for the sponsorship crush? People like me were warning for years the effect on the sport would be if the likes of Floyd, Betsy and their supporters got their way. Sure these things probably would have come out some time down the line, in a much more calm way - no criminal investigations or wins being taken away. But it didn't have to be like this. I just hope those that prayed for it are happy.
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Re: Lance claims unfair treatment [CensoredCyclist] [ In reply to ]
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CensoredCyclist wrote:
pick6 wrote:
Wrong. He waived doctor patient confidentiality when he let her stay in the room. He knows this. It's why he won't admit it happened, because then the doctor will likely be sanctioned for falsifying medical records.


Firstly, this would not be the case nowadays as I understand it. The Hippa rules would stop people like Betsy from passing on private information to third parties. But I never stated it in legal terms. Most people consider the privacy of someone's conversations with a doctor to be a moral issue. If we were priviledged enough to be at the bedside of someone who has just had brain surgery and was partly sedated, we wouldn't dream of passing on that info.

You dont know he was sedated. In fact, Lance no longer makes that argument, so lets see what he says when he finally talks about it, because on Oprah he dodged the question. Further, you don't understand HIPAA very well, but Im not surprised. Even under today's law she's done nothing illegal. The fact that you're putting Lance's admission of illegal and immoral acts as less important than Betsy talking about what he said....
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Re: Lance claims unfair treatment [CensoredCyclist] [ In reply to ]
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CensoredCyclist wrote:
pick6 wrote:
No. People need to have more backbone and moral fortitude, like Betsy, Like Oreilly. He chose to dope. Unlike the team working for him, no one forced him. He's never made that claim. There was plenty of success to be had back in the US. People talk about all the money, but imagine Lance for a second, clean. He was always a little better than his 82 VO2Max, even before the serious drugs. He had a fight in him that we've seen be his undoing. Imagine, then instead of doping if he'd raised the profile of US racing for all those years by racing here. Where would we be now? Do you think Philadelphia would have been shuttered? Would Battenkill now be a Gran Fondo? probably not. The thing you don't understand is Lance never had to win the TdF to do great things, it's just what he chose.

I talk about this alternate reality, because you have always assumed this was the only way things could have gone for lance. The perspective people need to have is that winning at all costs isnt really winning and he's seeing that now. He wonders why Floyd won't answer the phone; he wonders why just because Frankie said he sounded contrite doesnt mean they're going to forgive him anytime soon.


As stated, anyone who wanted to be a on top team in the top race of the era had to dope. Many riders doped before they rode with Armstrong. The rest continued to dope after they left, some at higher levels. Nobody was forced.

You're seriously trying to spin it that Armstrong is responsible for the sponsorship crush? People like me were warning for years the effect on the sport would be if the likes of Floyd, Betsy and their supporters got their way. Sure these things probably would have come out some time down the line, in a much more calm way - no criminal investigations or wins being taken away. But it didn't have to be like this. I just hope those that prayed for it are happy.

Yes, Im absolutely saying the reaction to doping among the top level of US teams and riders, and the most marketable athlete affiliated with the sport becoming mainstream is what caused all this. Of course, it's a natural reaction . This is the kind of thing that needs to happen to force cycling to clean up it's act. You'd much rather they all go along doping and that Lance didn't do anything wrong... I'm done with you. I knew better when I started answering you. Someday, when you finally get it, you're going to feel really stupid.
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Re: Lance claims unfair treatment [CensoredCyclist] [ In reply to ]
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CensoredCyclist wrote:
Interesting post, Slowman. But I'd like to take issue with the idea Betsy or Oreilly were great victims here. It was a private conversation with a doctor. He would have asked them to leave had he not been on heavy pain killers after surgery, clouding his judgment. Yet she went home and immediately called all her friends and told them about it. She later refused to help out when Lance was being screwed out of millions by an insurance company. I think Armstrong had every right to be angry with her. Even today she has no conscience about all the people Armstrong is trying to protect from possible criminal charges over SCA - good friends, top doctors. Not only does she view this trivial issue of what happened at the hospital as more important than the career of a great champion, she also believes none of these good people matter. That shows complete narcissism.

I think a huge part of it is the guilt she feels for effectively ending Frankie's career by refusing to allow him to dope, knowing he wasn't good enough to survive in the peloton without it. Armstrong tried to get Frankie to come back after he retired, but instead Betsy forced him to wear a wire whilst meeting his agent. Horrible stuff. For years she consistently tried to out Lance but noone else in his team, which drove even Hincapie nuts as we saw from his email in the affidavits. It was straight forward bullying.
Oh please. For starters, Tailwind Sports (did Armstrong ever own any of that?) were screwing an insurance company by making a fraudulent claim (maybe they didn't realise it at the time, but that seems unlikely). Fundamentally, if you cheat, your "career" is at risk - those are the stakes you agree to play with, as do those who agree to cheat with you (such as the doctors). At any time, anyone can decide they're out of it and maybe the rest of the house of cards will fall. If Armstrong wants to protect his fellow criminals, that's up to him, but no-one else is obliged to play ball.

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Frankie seems like a fairly honorable and simple man, but you have to ask how Armstrong ever allowed such low quality people into his inner circle. For that Armstrong does share part of the blame.
Yeah, a conscience is such a low thing to have.

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Now Oreilly. She is a more likable figure - she had a good relationship with Lance and he was only ever kind to her. This almost makes it worse that she would betray the team. She sold her story to the book and could have potentially brought down the team - all the great staff and riders within it. That was a very nasty thing to do. Armstrong's hints that they had to fire her for inappropriate behavior are really the least one could expect as blow back. I'm amazed that people believe she expected to do that without any consequences. What do you think was going to happen?
O'Reilly didn't want any active part in the doping but got pressured into it. She talked. Anything beyond getting sacked is too much, and Armstrong went way beyond that.

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Armstrong's attempts to apologise, even though he has the moral highground, should be seen as an act of great grace. Personally I would have liked to see him give a much stronger defence of his actions. I think they were afraid of the media spinning it as more bullying.
That was an apology? The only thing he regrets is getting found out. He's admitted to some but not all of the stuff that everyone already knows beyond all reasonable doubt, and arrogantly wants it all forgotten and left in the past so he can have another go at being the same old asshole, hopefully getting away with it second time around.
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Re: Lance claims unfair treatment [sdmike] [ In reply to ]
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sdmike wrote:
packetloss wrote:
Do you guys really think this all starts with the riders? Lets forget about Lance for a minute. Do you think Joe Cyclist joins a pro team and decides he needs to up his game and starts looking for doping doctors and setting up a doping regiment? I think not. More likely it's the team, coaches and directors that introduce the riders to the program and impose it on them.


I'm not saying that the riders are completely innocent victims, but going after the riders, even one such as Lance, isn't the right way to do it and doesn't get to the heart of the problem. They are just replacable resources for the team.


Exactly. Guys like Manaol Saiz and Johan Bruyneel, the doctors and even Omerta poster boy Jim Ochowicz need to be held accountable for allowing things to go on so long.


I was offline from the internet and missed all the entertainment with this thread exploding.

How is Eddy B getting off the hook from all of this with respect to doping in US cycling:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Borysewicz


Eddie B is the kingpin who brought Eastern European doping practices to US cycling, blood doped the guys for the 1984 Olympics and "discovered" Lance while running Subaru Montgomery. This team in later incarnations morphed into US Postal and then Disco. If there was an Omerta poster boy in the US, is it not Eddie B?


Other than that, pick6 can carry on with his LA obsession. I agree, the the real culprits are team management, pressurizing young boys into a doping culture. Just a few days ago we were talking about Brett Sutton staying away from teenage athletes.....I'd like to see many of these guys off limits from young riders so that young guys like the LA in the late 80's and early 90's are not introduced to cycling with doping being a basic aspect like air in the tires and water in the bottles. Is LA to blame of having this mindset, or is there an entire generation of management that not only pushed it at Subaru Montgomery, but at Reynolds, Banesto, Panasonic,Kelme, Telekom, CSC, Mapei, Klas, and so on.


Sure, LA was the king of his generation but a bigger step now that he is down to get at this entire layer of management who had a very strong incentive to dope to win. As you said, riders are/were/will always be, a replaceable commodity. Our memories of today's champion gets erased as soon as we have a new champion tomorrow. No doubt, Contador will be back and everyone will forget Wiggins.
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Re: Lance claims unfair treatment [dontswimdontrun] [ In reply to ]
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Those close to the sport understand he didn't "cheat" anyone. The insurance company was doing what insurance companies always do - find any loophole they could to renage on a deal. That Betsy chose to stand by the insurance company when $7 million was at stake for a friend - a friend who she knew had earned every penny - was unforgivable in my view.
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Re: Lance claims unfair treatment [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:



Other than that, pick6 can carry on with his LA obsession. I agree, the the real culprits are team management, pressurizing young boys into a doping culture. Just a few days ago we were talking about Brett Sutton staying away from teenage athletes.....I'd like to see many of these guys off limits from young riders so that young guys like the LA in the late 80's and early 90's are not introduced to cycling with doping being a basic aspect like air in the tires and water in the bottles. Is LA to blame of having this mindset, or is there an entire generation of management that not only pushed it at Subaru Montgomery, but at Reynolds, Banesto, Panasonic,Kelme, Telekom, CSC, Mapei, Klas, and so on.


Sure, LA was the king of his generation but a bigger step now that he is down to get at this entire layer of management who had a very strong incentive to dope to win. As you said, riders are/were/will always be, a replaceable commodity. Our memories of today's champion gets erased as soon as we have a new champion tomorrow. No doubt, Contador will be back and everyone will forget Wiggins.


LA was the management on his team. I dont have an LA obsession, but as long as we have lance "truthers" defending him like Censored Cyclist, there's going to be little political cover for going after the money men and leaders. The problem is Lance still stands in the way of what happens next. His "admission" his "apology" neither of which delivers what he knows, that USAC and UCI colluded to help him perpetrate a fraud, and that both are equally culpable. But until he admits that under oath to USADA or WADA, we get no where. So while I don't disagree this needs to go further, you're not seeing it really can't yet.
Last edited by: pick6: Feb 5, 13 18:35
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Re: Lance claims unfair treatment [AJHull] [ In reply to ]
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AJHull wrote:
I would love to rob a bank if I knew I could keep most of the money with no criminal charges.

But you could only keep the money if you said sorry. And it had to be sincere. Really, really sincere.


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Re: Lance claims unfair treatment [pick6] [ In reply to ]
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Kinda jumped in on the last couple of pages and not sure how long the beef with Censored has been going on but I don't think his points are necessary invalid. Although the "They should have all shut their mouth" stuff is kinda off base.

I do have to disagree with you on a couple of points (as always). :-)

"Imagine, then instead of doping if he'd raised the profile of US racing for all those years by racing here. Where would we be now? Do you think Philadelphia would have been shuttered? Would Battenkill now be a Gran Fondo? probably not. The thing you don't understand is Lance never had to win the TdF to do great things, it's just what he chose."

I think you underestimate the ultimate lack of interest in cycling that existed in America in '99 and now. Who's the hottest domestic pro today? Dunno. Who's the hottest domestic pro that had cancer at some point. Dunno. Don't care. Nobody cares about the domestic scene except for those who are already interested in the domestic scene. Who's the hottest pitcher in the AAA's? Whose the heaviest hitter in the the AA's? Who's the highest scorer in the CBL or the summer league? Nobody cares except for scouts.


"Hi, I'm Lance Armstrong and I've won the Tour of Utah 5 times. Please donate to cancer". Not so much.


Cycling would have been the same now as then with maybe some marginal gains. TdF stages on NBC. Nope. ToC stage winners announced on ESPN. Nope. Nada. Zero.


But an American cancer survivor winning 7 TdF titles (back to back). Shazam!!!!! Media gold. And don't forget it. Despite all the belly aching that goes on in forums. LA did for cycling (not just American cycling) what no other cyclist in history has done. (Hold the smarmy comments). Mainstream America. The biggest TV market in the world. How much did NBC pay ASO to broadcast live?


And LA didn't "force" anyone to do anything. Big boys make their own decisions as evidenced by the sad fact that many very talented individuals left cycling during that era due to their inability to compete without crossing the line.

LA's stature didn't really have much to do with the investigation, per se, his riding for the U.S. Government did. As I have stated in other posts, without the Feds, USADA would have had jack. I am glad this came out as I think it is going to play out in an ultimately beneficial way for cycling (UCI getting busted, etc.) and as you have intimated may be a launch pad for other sports to have better regulation.

Backbone and moral fortitude are good for people but... that's a bit black and white. As goes the philosophic conundrum. Your wife is dying from a disease that can be cured with a single medication. You do not have the money to purchase the medication and no one will give you the medication or donate the money for the medication but you have the ability to break into the pharmacy and steal the medication to save you wife's life. Of course theft is against the law.


Life is not always about moral fortitude. It's about making choices. Sometimes you make the wrong choices. Sometimes you apologize. Sometimes you don't.


Looks like LA is... we'll see.



Edit: Read some more posts. Points not valid by Censored... The painkiller BS, the LA is more noble BS. Agree, might just be a troll.

Edit: But that doesn't invalidate my points. ;-)










Last edited by: ironpsych: Feb 5, 13 18:52
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Re: Lance claims unfair treatment [pick6] [ In reply to ]
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Ben, I really don't have much interest in arguing the LA points. I'm just saying that LA is a creation of the environment he grew up in (just like all children are). Yes he grew up, became a man, and became "management" and did what management did while he was growing up as a young cyclist. I'd just like to see various team managers being taken to task. Bjaarne Riis was known as Mr.60% when he beat Miguel Indurain at the 1996 tour. Remember that 40K stage on the snow covered roads to Sestriere where he totally buried Indurain. Then magically when he was running team CSC, he'd take journeymen riders and make champions out of them. Tyler goes to CSC in 2003, breaks a collarbone and magically rides to 4th at the Tour under Riis.

Then next year, Tyler goes over to Phonak and Iban Mayo from Euskatel totally buried an already doped Lance on the Mont Ventoux at the 2004 Dauphine ITT. Do you think it was magic that they guys were buring the doped out King of his time, or do you think that these riders had some help from their team management?

Just in case you don't remember that day, here are the results from Bedouin to Mont Venoux. This was one of the most Epic ITT hillclimbs from that generation....note the Phonak dominance with Tyler, Sevilla, Landaluze, Guttierez, Pereiro, Dessel all the top 20. That's totally wild....and Tyler was smoking the doped chicken Rassmussen by 3 minutes on VENTOUX.

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/...4/?id=results/stage4

1 Iban Mayo (Spa) Euskaltel-Euskadi 55.51.49 (23.202 km/h) 2 Tyler Hamilton (USA) Phonak Hearing Systems 0.35.26 3 Oscar Sevilla (Spa) Phonak Hearing Systems 1.03.09 4 Juan Miguel Mercado (Spa) Quick.Step-Davitamon 1.48.44 5 Lance Armstrong (USA) US Postal presented by Berry Floor 1.57.89 6 Inigo Landaluze (Spa) Euskaltel-Euskadi 2.22.75 7 José Gutierrez (Spa) Phonak Hearing Systems 2.44.09 8 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Rabobank 3.21.18 9 Michael Rasmussen (Den) Rabobank 3.33.38 10 Stéphane Goubert (Fra) Ag2R Prevoyance 3.35.81 11 Oscar Pereiro (Spa) Phonak Hearing Systems 3.55.55 12 David Moncoutie (Fra) Cofidis, le credit par Telephone 3.59.03 13 Cyril Dessel (Fra) Phonak Hearing Systems 4.03.20 14 Floyd Landis (USA) US Postal presented by Berry Floor 4.09.14 15 José Azevedo (Por) US Postal presented by Berry Floor 4.18.24 16 Christophe Moreau (Fra) Credit Agricole 4.37.09 17 Michael Rogers (Aus) Quick.Step-Davitamon 4.44.95 18 Carlos Sastre (Spa) Team CSC 5.08.52 19 Sandy Casar (Fra) FDJeux.com 5.29.49 20 Victor Hugo Pena (Col) US Postal presented by Berry Floor 5.29.88....so yeah, now that we have Lance can we get to some of the other management that were making the dope game happen?
Last edited by: devashish_paul: Feb 5, 13 18:45
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Re: Lance claims unfair treatment [pick6] [ In reply to ]
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pick6 wrote:
I dont have an LA obsession, but as long as we have lance "truthers" defending him like Censored Cyclist, there's going to be little political cover for going after the money men and leaders. The problem is Lance still stands in the way of what happens next. His "admission" his "apology" neither of which delivers what he knows, that USAC and UCI colluded to help him perpetrate a fraud, and that both are equally culpable. But until he admits that under oath to USADA or WADA, we get no where. So while I don't disagree this needs to go further, you're not seeing it really can't yet.

On the contrary, Lance is leading the way forward by asking everybody to be truthful about the extent of doping from all eras of the sport. He has backed TRC strongly. It's WADA and co who now stand in the way, pretending the code is like holy texts that they can't break to have an amesty even if it meant cleaning up the sport.

What should happen now is CCN should make Lance the chairman of the group - that would give them real weight.
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Re: Lance claims unfair treatment [ironpsych] [ In reply to ]
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ironpsych wrote:
Edit: Read some more posts. Points not valid by Censored... The painkiller BS, the LA is more noble BS.


Why are people hung up on the pain killer point? It was a few days AFTER surgery. They'd chopped off his nut, removed his skull and cut out part of his stomach. He hasn't told me he was on pain killers, but it seems highly likely. That could relax you enough to believe you were in a room with close friends.

Rest of your post was very good though. People use this black and white judgmental mentality that doesn't meet any reatity based criteria.
Last edited by: CensoredCyclist: Feb 5, 13 19:09
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Re: Lance claims unfair treatment [CensoredCyclist] [ In reply to ]
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"Edit: Read some more posts. Points not valid by Censored... The painkiller BS, the LA is more noble BS."

Hey, why did you leave the rest of that line off when you quoted me?

I think it was... "Agree, might just be a troll."

:-)
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Re: Lance claims unfair treatment [ironpsych] [ In reply to ]
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Ignore the troll...ignore the troll...

He is one of the worst trolls on twitter. Disappointing he has shown up here.
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Re: Lance claims unfair treatment [NAB777] [ In reply to ]
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NAB777 wrote:
Ignore the troll...ignore the troll...

He is one of the worst trolls on twitter. Disappointing he has shown up here.

Yup. He calls himself CensoredCyclist because he has been banned from numerous cycling sites for trolling just like he is doing here. THe usual method I have seen is posting distortions of fact to rile people up then pouring gasoline on the resulting fire with one lie after another.
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Re: Lance claims unfair treatment [NAB777] [ In reply to ]
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NAB777 wrote:
Ignore the troll...ignore the troll...

He is one of the worst trolls on twitter. Disappointing he has shown up here.

A troll with a wonky moral compass no less...
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Re: Lance claims unfair treatment [NAB777] [ In reply to ]
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NAB777 wrote:
Ignore the troll...ignore the troll...

He is one of the worst trolls on twitter. Disappointing he has shown up here.


Yes this Lance stuff is divisive, I get it. But you should be tolerant of differing opinions.

The only forum I've been banned from is Cycling news, dude.

Precisely.

Now kindly make a point on the subject and not disrupt the thread.
Last edited by: CensoredCyclist: Feb 5, 13 20:18
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Re: Lance claims unfair treatment [Steve-oH!] [ In reply to ]
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Armstrong is now under criminal investigation.

http://abcnews.go.com/m/story?id=18415386
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Re: Lance claims unfair treatment [AmaDablam] [ In reply to ]
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AmaDablam wrote:
Armstrong is now under criminal investigation.http://abcnews.go.com/m/story?id=18415386


You beat me to it. ;)

It seems he's out of the woods on all the real hard stuff that could send him to jail, but is still being pursued on the incident with Tyler.

Would Tyler even want him prosecuted for that in this new time of TRC?

I'd be kinda embarrassed on behalf of the feds if they did bother to file charges. Doubt they'd even get a conviction either. Armstrong may not quite come across well on the TV to some people, but in person he is very, very good. The jury would love him.

What a waste of time.
Last edited by: CensoredCyclist: Feb 5, 13 20:45
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