Go aero all the way..112miles is a lng way to go worrying about weight (even if it is a hilly course). The gains you'll make being aero will far outweigh the gains from going light. Be comfortable..but be aero.

Check out Gordo's web site for a good description of the course. http://www.byrn.org/gtips/imlp.htm

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Most of the uphills are in the 4 to 5% range. There is nothing of any length that is worse than that, although you may think otherwise on the second lap.

I have done aero in the past on this course, but I am thinking of going light this year. The reality is that I can not stay in an aero position for six plus hours. It is not that I am uncomfortable in the aero position, it is just that I can't stay in any position for that long. It is the hills that kill me on this course, so I have decided to try to deal with that this time around. I hope to hit the course at least 15 pounds lighter between the bike and the rider.

I will bring my disc to Lake Placid, but I don't think I will use it unless conditions are very good. That is my $.02 from the back of the pack.

gordo's tips are spot on. great advice... IF the weather conditions are typical. in 03 the Hed H3 trispokes were a liability. the wind made its way through the tree cover and was whipping us around. again, this was atypical weather, but food for thought as race day approaches. i'd bring your ksyriums just in case.

the ascents are rather mild, but they are long. there's just one potential out-of-the-saddle ascent at left turn in Jay (i think its in Jay). other than that, you can hold your aero position and get settled in. i'd stay with the tri geometry as you won't really need to brake much except on the descent out of placid.

it's a beautiful course... you'll love it out there.

As a first timer at LP last year, I can't speak for year's past, but the wind in '03 was....fierce and steady. The head wind back into town on the long climbs was memorable, especially the second loop.

One thing you can prepare for mentally in advance of the race is to expect rain. I know it's rained the last two years (maybe all?) and you just have to tell yourself its coming and deal with it.

As for the bike set up, I'd sold my tri bike and earlier in the year and trained exclusively on my road bike (w/areo bars). I bought a Guru myself, but it was to new to try and break in a week before an IM so I raced the roadie w/aero wheels. Turned out well for me, but now have the itch to try it again on the Cron'Alu.

Great race, great town...enjoy,

Dietrying

I've done this course all 5 years and I do agree with the others to ride steep and aero as much as possible, but pay attention to lighten up your bikes. Your legs will thank you on the run. . If you are small, you won't want anything resembling a disk or trispoke in the back or anything super deep on the front wheel as the wind gusts on the 8 mi descents into Keene can be deadly especially at 50+ mph. There are no steep grades that require a true roadie geometry. Out of 5 years, we've had rain on the course during 4. July in the Adirondacks typically mean late day thundershowers, either late in the bike or on the run, so you may as well accept the fact. The only year without rain was year 1 and that was cause the race was mid Aug, so slightly different weather patterns.

No rain in 2000...Just a MASSIVE THREAT of rain for most of the day.

I use Road Geometry for all my Tris, but I've been racing bicycles for 20 years so I'm fairly adapted.

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http://wattieink.com/elite-team/
Raising funds to help wounded veterans and racing RAAM 2013 with http://team4mil.org/
"If you are gonna charge... CHARGE HARD!"

Well, defininitely 3 out of 5 years, although I distinctly recall some light rain in 2000 too. Or maybe it was just the sweat induced by my meltdown :-)

OK, you've pegged my confusion meter. I realize that a lot of this is based on opinion, experience, and the specific course, but most of the threads on this topic that I've read on this forum seem to indicate a consensus that for most people most of the time, you should have aero front/disc rear. Now you are saying that for IMLP, this is not the case, at least for smaller riders.

Your logic makes sense to me, as I have gotten blown around quite a lot on my current wheels(Bontrager Select) which aren't very aero at all, when the conditions get windy.

I guess I'm just confused, since I have been pondering(Jonesin' for, really) a set of nice wheels for a while, but if I wouldn't be using them at Lake Placid, there would really be no reason to buy them when I can save my money and maybe put it toward a new bike this winter.

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If I were racing IMUSA, I'd race with a 404 front and a Disc. I raced twin 404s in 2000 with no problems.

I'm 5'10" and weigh 145 lbs. I'm an experienced road cyclist with no problems cornering/descending.

With that said, I think Dev is displaying conservatism based on his years of experience indicating that many triathletes haven't fully refined their cycling skills. If your skills are less-refined, the winds during the descent to Keene can be intimidating resulting in dangerous riding or the use of brakes on the descent (which would negate the need for a disc).

If you are really wanting wheels and have some doubts, I'd highly suggest using a pair of 404 tubulars at IMUSA. They are very light and very aero (good enough for Peter and Lori in Kona).

Cheers,

Jonathan C. Puskas

http://www.bamcoach.com

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http://wattieink.com/elite-team/
Raising funds to help wounded veterans and racing RAAM 2013 with http://team4mil.org/
"If you are gonna charge... CHARGE HARD!"

Art, praise the Lord, you are finally seeing the light! How long has this discussion been going on on this websight? Four years? For the rest of you I'll say what I've always said. In LP you will go downhill as fast as you are willing to go no matter which wheels you bring. Your problem wil be that you will be going uphill the rest of the time. LP is in the mountains, choose the lightest wheels you can get. Zipp 404's are probably the perfect choice for this or any other mountain course. Aero and light. Do you really think you need a disc if you are already going 50mph on the road to Keene? Do you think it will be fun to drag that disc back up Mama Bear, Baby Bear, and Papa Bear on the second lap? I don't. PS. the old LP half IM used to go the other way around the course. It must have been brutal!

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''Sweeney - you can both crush your AG *and* cruise in dead last!! 😂 '' Murphy's Law

Praise the Lord. I have seen the light. Salvation is mine. Glory glory, halleluhu.

I got pushed around -[retty well last year with my disc. Actually, that was the least of my equipment problems, but it got my attention. I just picked up some 303's. I am definitely going to use that on the front. We will see about the back. The disc wheel adds less than a pound, but any handling problems would negate any aero benefit.

We live and learn.

Definitely ride whichever bike is more comfortable. Based on your name ("newbie") I'm guessing this is your first ironman and it that's the case I don't expect you'll be out for a sub-10 hour race. Comfort and enjoyment are Priority 1...and, er, 2...I guess...

After years of aero bikes I rode my road bike last year (no aerobars or nothing) and I couldn't have been happier. To me the optimum setup is a road bike with shorty aerobars (I use Ovaltech Slam bars and I like them a lot) and trispoke wheels.

If you're in the hunt for a sub-10 race a disc might make sense, otherwise don't bother.

Cheers,
Doug Fuller

Puskas is correct, I too have gone with double deep rim wheels (Zipp 440 front, Hed CX rear, 8 year old set of race wheels that still work fine). This set up should be fine for any rider. I have been out in much windier training days at LP than we have had on any race day with buddies with dual trispokes much larger than me (like 180 lbs) getting blown all over the course on the descent to Keene as they get hammered by sudden gusts on the "Cascade Screamer" as some call it. A larger rider could easily go with front 404 rear trispoke. Personally, I'd go with dual 303's if I had some spare cash, but that's just me. As another reader said, why haul all that mass up hill. If I could, I'd also lose 10 lbs for this course, but at 5'6", 140, losing any weight is not much of an option, so I have to lose weight off the bike. Ideally though, I'd stay 140 and gain 4 inches of height for some extra leverage on the bike :-)

Thanks to everyone for all your input, it will be very helpful. Gordo's write up on the course was awesome as well as all of the tips you guys gave. FYI I'm a bigger rider 6'3" 185lb's and this will be my second Ironman. My first was CDA last year in the ridiculous heat where I proceeded to melt but finished. My race will completely depend on my bike split which is why I was asking the question. My average int'l bike split is 1:00 on the button having broken it a couple of times and ridden around 1:01 a few times. My Half Ironman splits really depend on the course with the slowest being 2:41 and the fastest being 2:26. All that being said I really need to milk the bike and swim for every second because my Marathon will end up around 4hrs depending on the weather.....I don't do well in the heat which is why I'm going to LP. Anyway, thanks again and any more tips would be very much appreciated.

Are there people who do the whole downhill to Keene without braking? WOW! that is some confidence in your handling. I know that 2 years ago that was my least favorite part of the course. I liked climbing back into town better than that descent. I live in a flat area, compensating for my home terain to get ready for uphills can be accomodated for by getting as fit and as strong as possible. However there is no substitute for the handling skills required for a long high speed descent. I guess it boils down to specificity.

Florida gives me the ability to ride year round but is vertically deficient. I guess I could go to California and get to ride year round with hills but then I would have to pay State Income tax again.

Yeah bud, all the way to Keene, no braking. You spend all that energy going up, you don't want to convert it into heat in your brakepads. Stuff your face with food at the big yellow downhill sign near the top, stick your nose to your stem, elbows in, hands on top of bars or holding aero pads, tuck your knees in (left foot down on right turns, right foot down on left turns) and let it rip all the way down, munching away on your food the whole time like a camel getting ready for a desert crossing :-). This is the only way to do Keene...and pass all those braking dudes on the left.

I am 5'10" and about 160-165 and rode a Hed Jet2000 front and DEEP in the back last year and could feel a bit of a push on the back down Keene in the rain but nothing too bad. I would be more concerned with what will be good for the other 100 miles of the course than on the 12 miles of decending! I would go light for all the long, but not too steep, climbs.

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Banger

devashish paul,

Are you going to be there this year too? If so what kind of swimmer are you? I am an ~60 min swimmer I am wondering if you will be passing me or if you will already be down the hill before I get there.

In 2002 more people passed me on the downhill than I thought was even possible. Part of my fear of that downhill is my lack of experience at high speed descents and partly not knowing how close people flying past me on the downhill would be.

I guess I sould do some more group rides to be used to the handling around big groups even though triathlon is a "time trial". The speed of others passing you and passing others at that high of a speed is something I need to consider.

A tri bike only for elite, otherwise a road bike. I've finished IMLP 4 times (bike split pr 5:57) and used a standard road setup. This is a picture of the coarse before the Keene decent...

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I was, now I will tri again!
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Any time is a good time.
God Bless you my friend.

Just what kind of actual speeds do top bike handlers achieve on the LP bike course. I'd like to know your actual speeds, not what you have heard of or seen others do. Also, this is not a bragging rights question. I'd also like to hear about IM Canada speeds for the back side of Richter Pass and Yellow Lake. I think I read that there is a section (Richter?) that required riders do deliberately reduce speed during a portion of the downhill. True?

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Behold the turtle! He makes progess only when he sticks his neck out. (James Bryant Conant)
GET OFF THE F*%KING WALL!!!!!!! (Doug Stern)
Brevity is the soul of wit. (William Shakespeare)

I came upon the decent one year (2001) at about 1:45 into the race and saw one guy that went down face first. The side of his face kinda looked like raw hamburger and there was an ambulance getting a strecher out. His race was over. I think he had a bad case of gold fever before the race that contrtibuted to his accident. I often wonder what that guy looks like today and if he still has an ear.

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I was, now I will tri again!
...
Any time is a good time.
God Bless you my friend.

I am trying to figure out the same thing about IMLP. At IMC (4 times) I have never used my brakes until the dismount. The back side of Richter is not that bad at all. The back side of Yellow Lake is much longer and therefore faster. I hit 50 mph+. Note, I am quite comfortable descending b/c I have to do it all the time where I live and my P3 is so solid that I can stay on the aero bars. Many folks do have to brake on Yellow Lake, and they may be smarter than me. This is just my experience.

good Luck!

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David
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