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Lack of Swim Fitness??
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I was reading through the recent swim thread regarding the single biggest thing that improved people's swim times and I wanted to get some feedback on a similar question. I have been swimming for almost three years now since I got into triathlons. I swim with a local masters group, but, unfortunately, due to time constraints I can only get to the pool about 2 times a week during the winter and then during the summer I stretch that to include 3 swim sessions usually one pool and two open water. Currently, I avg about 1:55-2:00/100 yards 2:00-2:05/100 meters.

Now I know this question will be hard to answer without a video, but I am in the process of getting one but just haven't had a chance to get the goPro in the water yet. Anyways, I have noticed that in my warm up sets I am almost always around 1:40 to 1:45/100 yards and then that pace drops off as I get deeper into the sets and the longer intervals. Then today I had a decent swim where we did 25's and, although I wasn't "sprinting" the 25's I was pushing it pretty hard and really focusing on pulling harder than usual and trying to keep up the pace. Attached are my garmin splits for the session.

Clearly it looks like I have the ability to swim faster and my warmup sets always seem to indicate that I can go faster, so my question is, is this indicative of a swim fitness issue? I know I have tons of areas to improve my technique, but I am assuming that my technique isn't horrible if I can put up some faster times. Or is this impossible to answer without video? If you think fitness has a lot to do with it is there anything that you find helps maintain technique as you fatigue?

Thanks in advance for the feedback.




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Re: Lack of Swim Fitness?? [cdoug55] [ In reply to ]
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Certainly could be - most triathletes are not “fit” in swimming-terms. A typical competitive swimmer of high school age will put up 20k-30k yards a week quite easily on 5-8 sessions per week. Not only is swim fitness dependent on distance travelled but frequency in the pool

My point is you clearly have some speed - and with a lot more consistency, call it 4-5 sessions a week for a month, you’d start seeing these 50s translate to 100s and 200s.
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Re: Lack of Swim Fitness?? [cdoug55] [ In reply to ]
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Swimming 3 sessions a week I can at best maintain my current swim fitness. If you want to make any significant progress, do a focus phase of 5-6 swims / week for 3-4 weeks and then maintain a 4x schedule with one of those being a lighter / recovery pull buoy + paddles type of thing and the rest hard interval stuff with a masters team. Skip the fluff such as kick sets, drills and crap like that and just do freestyle hard :)

What's your CdA?
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Re: Lack of Swim Fitness?? [cdoug55] [ In reply to ]
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I would go stoke for stroke with you if we swam that workout together. Best I can tell from my own experience is I don't swim enough to get faster. 2x2000ish is all I can take in the pool weekly.

My all-out 25 is 18.5 when I'm in shape but there's zero chance I can interval that without serious rest so I end up with you in the 21/22 range. 25/27 is my comfortably uncomfortable 25 pace when I go 200-300.

When I'm in shape, I can repeat high 1:30's 8-10 times on 15-20 seconds rest.

I just don't swim enough to go faster.
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Re: Lack of Swim Fitness?? [cdoug55] [ In reply to ]
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So looking at these times I would say the gaps you're seeing are relatively normal. Your 25s are "faster" whereas your longer distances are a slower average pace per 100. Basically for shorter distances you can go faster and for longer distances you slow down. This is true for everyone, whether you are able to swim 1:20/100 comfortably or 1:50/100 - everyones times slow down over the longer distance. It is also likely that your form breaks down over time. Doing all the things mentioned above in terms of consistency, swimming harder sets, doing some drills, etc will all contribute to faster times in the pool.
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Re: Lack of Swim Fitness?? [cdoug55] [ In reply to ]
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A. You gotta swim more. As everyone has said 2x isn't enough to get better. I go backwards on 2x. 3x holds steady, 4x+ to improve. I don't like to be out of the water for more than a day when I'm trying to get faster.

B. Swimming faster and shorter works. Do more of that. You should tune into the usrpt swim thread that's on this forum right now. I do 30x25 (15s) @ 18ish seconds per 25. I also do 50s and 100s in a similar fashion.

https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...;;page=unread#unread

C. On days you can't get to the pool you can use stretch chords. I keep it simple... Again 30x (20, 45, or 90s) to simulate 25s, 50s, or 100s on 20s rest. I set a metronome at 60bpm to set my stroke rate.

D. When I want an easy day, I swim short repeats...ususally 50s at a fast 100s pace with extra rest. Don't slow down.... That just reinforces slow habits. I also do lots of kicking on easy days. I'm currently seeing good results from this emphasis. I'm working up to adding about 500-750 yards of kicking to each session.
Last edited by: Tom_hampton: Feb 21, 19 18:46
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Re: Lack of Swim Fitness?? [cdoug55] [ In reply to ]
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I'd say if your quick 25's are at around 1'30"/100y pace then the 1'50"/100y is a realistic pace so you're not far off.. Not every swim practice has to have a quick average pace, I go easy on everything unless my coach prescribes certain times or paces.

Everyone's times drop off the longer you go, that could be due to your swim fitness or it could be that the shorter intervals just allow you to muscle through them with relatively not as good form and allow you to recover quick enough to do a couple of them. While if you do 200's, you'd not make the 2nd interval maybe..
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Re: Lack of Swim Fitness?? [cdoug55] [ In reply to ]
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I’m ignoring the paces on the 25’s, the fact that the warmup is faster than your main sets in more indicative to me. I’d say that yes, there is a swim fitness issue if your warmup is the fastest part of your practice. Likely what’s going on is that you start getting sloppy technically as soon as you start getting tired.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: Lack of Swim Fitness?? [cdoug55] [ In reply to ]
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I agree with most that to get faster or maintain your speed for longer distances, you need to swim more but will also add that you need to build those hard 25’s to 50’s then to 100’s and so forth. I swim twice per week and am still able to get faster and maintain my speed for distance. My last workout was the following:

500wu
100 kick
5x100 on the 1:30
100 kick
4x100 on the 1:30
100 kick
3x100 on the 1:30
100 kick
2x100 on the 1:30
100 kick
100 on the 1:30
100 kick

We will also make them 25’s or 50’s or 200’s. You need to get with a group of people that are faster than you and will push you. I know you said you are time limited so swimming 5/6 days per doesn’t sound like an option but I would advise against that anyway. It’s a perfect recipe for injury. Stay away from paddles as well unless you are under the direct supervision of a coach and you use them on a limited basis. Stick with the kick board and most importantly a pull buoy. Body position is key for fast swimming. It’s like they say, smooth is fast.

FWIW, I’m a FOP swimmer in most of my races. The longer the better for me. I need the swim to be competitive in my races as I’m typically a slower runner than much of my competition.

Team Zoot
Last edited by: jeepguy2358: Feb 22, 19 5:38
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Re: Lack of Swim Fitness?? [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks to the OP for posting this question as I am in this same boat with the issue/times. Thanks as well to all for the feedback.
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Re: Lack of Swim Fitness?? [Tri_Joeri] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks everyone for the responses and advice. Pretty much what I knew that I need to swim a lot more to see real improvements. It was helpful to here though that if my 25 times are like that then 1:50s are pretty much on point for longer intervals.

Also, thanks for the suggestions on workouts to help bring my speed up through the increasing interval distances. I am going to work on getting a video up so I can get some real feedback on stroke. Thanks again.
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Re: Lack of Swim Fitness?? [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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Exactly what I figured. The good thing I have noticed is that my pace has been coming down slowly throughout the other sets so hopefully I am improving.

Any suggestions on mental cues to think about when swimming longer intervals to help maintain form despite fatigue?
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Re: Lack of Swim Fitness?? [cdoug55] [ In reply to ]
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cdoug55, when you get the vid posted and we can see your technique, it might be easier to suggest mental cues. I only focus on one thing during a swim set or session. If I try and focus on more than one thing, I don't get as much out of that workout. For example, during a long interval, remembering to recover as far in front of me as possible before starting the catch phase. Or maybe I want to work on early vertical forearm to ensure I'm getting the proper pull, I will do that for an entire swim session, or I might decide on day where the kick will be my focus. Long story short, for me, I can only focus on one thing at a time and I choose what that will be before the session or the set. Good luck.
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