I hear you and I agree. I wouldn't even take the slot, if it was won through a drawn lottery.

You can take the entry and tell your non-tri friends you “earned” it by being such an awesome triathlete. You also get to take a really cool vacation. I can’t see the downside except some guy you don’t even know criticizing you on slowtwitch

I hear what you are saying, but I think you fail to understand the definition of a "lottery".

Yea... I am guessing you would.

All this talk about "I would not take the slot..." "The point of going is to go by qualifying..." All a bunch of BS. John and Judy Collins always wanted to have a way for "the normal" triathlete to be able to race in Kona. That has always been the great thing about Kona, an ability for a few non-qualifying triathletes to be able to compete in the race.

It is easy for people sitting behind a keyboard to talk about "Not Taking a Slot". I do not believe it for 1 second.

If someone gets an slot via Lottery, sponsors exemption, charity, etc. they should go, have a great time, race and enjoy the experience. Oh, they should also not give a crap about what some "keyboard hater" has to say.

This is probably one of the few things discussed more than lionel over the history of ST. And I've only been here for 2 years, I just know the search function.

The Collins' said they want a way for the 'average joe' to have a shot at Kona and this manifestation keeps appearing in new forms each year since the Florida judgement. Now WTC keeps using this in new ways to try and drum up registration numbers. They're going to keep doing this so why complain about each new manifestation? If you don't want to race with average joes in Kona, don't go to Kona.

And btw, this average joe thing I think, should be separated from the 'buy your way in' like XC and charity slots. Charity slots that Boston also has. Oh and Boston's corporate sponsors get entries too.

---

808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

I would love to have the satisfaction of earning a million dollars overnight but I'm pretty sure if I won the megaball I would still cash in my ticket.

LOL. You don't know me. I've done 7IMs and I've never once entered any lottery for Kona. When I read that I was auto entered by virtue of signing up for one next year, I was more disappointed then anything, I'd rather see those spots stay/be added in the qualification system.

ahhhhh, see you understand what a lottery is.

I couldn't agree more.

The below comments are not directed at the above poster but more general in nature.

And spare me the "I-worked-so-hard-so-I-deserve-my-slot-and-you-lottery-winners-don't routine." Save it. Many of you worked hard and "earned" that slot. And, you should be proud. I'm not taking anything away from you. But, you were also given at least some genetic lottery gifts that others on the planet do not posses and they will not qualify no matter how hard they work. For some of you, qualifying for Kona probably wasn't "that" difficult because you have even greater genetic gifts. At my size, I am gentically pre-disposed against being able to qualify for Kona. Is that an excuse? Maybe, but its also suported by the genetic makeup of those who do typically qualify. My size also genetically predisposed me toward success for many years in rowing. Did I work my ass off as a rower? Yes. Do I feel I earn the victories I had? Of course. But, I'm also extremely honest with myself that I hit the lottery before ever stepping into a boat. I just decided to cash my ticket. The rowers that suck didn't water down my experience one bit and some slow triathlete out on the Queen K taking 16:5__ to complete the Kona course Kona shouldn't impact your experience one bit either. If you don’t want to cash your lottery ticket, don’t, but let those who do want to cash theirs in enjoy it.

I agree. I'm not judging people who use lottery or charity spot, I just don't understand their motivation. Kona and Boston are the pinnacles of achievements for amateur athletes from all corners of the world. People spend years trying to qualify.

Why exactly is it good to have 'average joes' to race along people, who achieved qualification?

And what goes in the mind of those 'joes' when they race along people, who worked hard to be there? Doesn't the fact that they didn't achieve it diminish their fun somehow?

lottery
noun, plural lot·ter·ies.

1. a gambling game or method of raising money, as for some public charitable purpose, in which a large number of tickets are sold and a drawing is held for certain prizes.
2. any scheme for the distribution of prizes by chance.
3. any happening or process that is or appears to be determined by chance:

Again, I think you are missing the point/definition of "lottery".

Right or wrong, for the vast majority of society, wealth is considered the pinnacle of success. I don't expect Mary and Bob to throw away their winning lottery ticket (or child who inherits wealth to give it all away) because they didn't "earn" it and continue to live in poverty because they don't "deserve" to live alongside those who purpotedly "earned" it..

I raced on a Legacy slot a few years ago, honestly one of the highlights of my life. I am extremely grateful for the opportunity. The satisfaction of qualifying would be great but I don't feel how I got there diminished the experience at all. It's part of the tradition of the race and it's those traditions that make it special.

I could not care less what anyone on this, or any random internet forum thinks. I wouldn't take a slot received in this way. I would not begrudge anybody who chooses to do so. However I, personally, want to earn my slot through a qualification. I race for personal satisfaction and improvement. I want the personal validation that I rose to the top and earned it through results.

My understanding is the race kinda sucks anyway. Everyone I know who has been there says that. So I see no reason to go race it just because someone handed me a slot. There are other places I would prefer someone "gives" me a slot to. Kona, to me, represents an achievement. I want to earn that achievement.

And again, I would never criticize anyone for taking a lottery slot. To them, perhaps Kona is just another race. And that's totally cool, but it means something else *to me*.

Also I wouldn't take a Legacy slot even though I am creeping up on earning one that way. I am fast enough that I will eventually KQ at a race. I'll let someone else take that Legacy slot who may not have that ability.

Since I started racing Ironman in ‘82 when Kona was the only Ironman, I get the lottery. The evolved into a true World Championship, but was not intended to be so excluslve.
I doubt I will ever get back to race there, just not quite fast enough, but would gladly take a “lottery” slot.
You may not appreciate the history of the challenge of given us by John Collins followed by Valerie Silk, but many of us do.

---

Team Zoot So Cal

I really would like to play in an NBA Finals game, but I am average height, can’t jump and otherwise am genetically predetermined to be an incapable of achieving what others have in that sport. Can I enter a lottery to play a few minutes?

The legacy program is the way the non genetically gifted can get into the race. One way or the other, athletes should have to earn it.

I guess there is a point at which you can raise enough charity money to justify that route.

Kona should be a privilege, not a right, despite whatever sacred declarations the Collins made years ago.

More slots should go to qualifiers. The people getting screwed here are the men and women in the smaller 25-39 AGs that get only a few slots per IM, despite filling most of the top overall positions.

I think what bothers people, and I see their point, is it's called the IM World Championship. WTC can do whatever they want - they always have and will continue to do so - and if they want to give charity spots, legacy spots, lottery spots that's their prerogative and no one should begrudge any person for taking a spot that's been offered. But maybe WTC should stop marketing it as the World Championship. So basically, I'm saying you're point is spot on, no one should think less of you for wanting to get in via lottery, and I think people's problem is directed moreso at WTC.

It's hard but in no other way does it suck. I'm not sure who you've been talking to but it is far and away the best race I've ever done. There is a reason ebay slots sell for $40,000.

I get the lottery.. And I never said it shouldn't exist, it's just not how I would ever want to go.

Drawing.

A lottery is, by definition under Florida law, only legal if run by the state.

It's a drawing.

And no, it doesn't diminish anything. It just honors the Silk legacy.

To the person who was talking about different iterations - there has been a drawing for those who register for WTC events around this time of year, and then there's the Foundation fundraiser (the exception under FL law for 501(c)(3)s for games of chance for a prize of consideration, and even then you need a way to enter for free to be safe).

---

----------------------------------
Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

WTC calls is IM World Championship because that's what it is. May be at some point it was a race that accepted everybody, but it isn't so now.

US is not a collection of British colonies anymore, that is why it doesn't have any senators from the Empire :)

But I'm joking. If people are happy to race for charity or lottery, it's great. I don't have to have the same opinion to be happy for them.

poor analogy because you would be impacting the game by your participation...the lottery winners have zero impact on the WC status. But, I don't think too many people would turn down the right to play in the Masters if offered a random lottery chance to do so because they didn't earn it.

Who said its a "right" instead of a privilege? Those who "earned" it don't have the "right" to be there either. Its a privilege for anyone.

Do you feel better now?

I haven't been, but yes, there have been many posts on ST that if you strip away the Championship title and all the hoopla that goes with it so that Kona was just another IM on the circuit, that it would not be an attractive venue. Again, I don't know if that's true or not, but I've heard that many times.