Kona Tire Choice

Oct 2, 19 13:18

Post #1 of 28 (2883 views)

I've been searching the internet and forum and found some good links on comparison on the question below but hoping to get a bit of 'specific' information for experience on the big island.

What set of tires should I bring to Kona? I'll be using PD 78/24's (front and back) and latex tubes.

set of GP 4000s @ 23mm
set of GP 4000s II @ 25mm
GP Attack @ 23mm/ Force @ 25mm

I'm leaning towards the 4000s II as the internets seem to indicate those have a lower rolling resistance but with all of these we seem to be splitting hairs so maybe it just doesn't matter. Can certainly mix and match if it makes the most sense.

No comment on the wheel choice, thats what I'm rolling with. All sets are in good shape and have about the same usage (+/- 300 race only miles).

Advise appreciated. Thank you!

________________________________________________________
Taylor Rogers

2024: IM Hamburg

Re: Kona Tire Choice [xcrogers] [ In reply to ]

Oct 2, 19 13:37

Post #2 of 28 (2852 views)

xcrogers wrote:

I've been searching the internet and forum and found some good links on comparison on the question below but hoping to get a bit of 'specific' information for experience on the big island.

What set of tires should I bring to Kona? I'll be using PD 78/24's (front and back) and latex tubes.

set of GP 4000s @ 23mm
set of GP 4000s II @ 25mm
GP Attack @ 23mm/ Force @ 25mm

I'm leaning towards the 4000s II as the internets seem to indicate those have a lower rolling resistance but with all of these we seem to be splitting hairs so maybe it just doesn't matter. Can certainly mix and match if it makes the most sense.

No comment on the wheel choice, thats what I'm rolling with. All sets are in good shape and have about the same usage (+/- 300 race only miles).

Advise appreciated. Thank you!

Tom A tested the older versions of the Attack/Force and both sizes of GP4000's here: http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

The Force rolls much better than the GP4000 so it would probably be best choice for rear. I don't think I've seen the Attack v3 (23c) tested for rolling resistance. Probably very similar to GP4000

Re: Kona Tire Choice [xcrogers] [ In reply to ]

Oct 2, 19 13:58

Post #3 of 28 (2823 views)

What's the internal and external width of those wheels?

I'd probably go with a 23C GP5000 instead of any of the options you listed, unless it has a narrow internal and wide external width, in which case 25c *might* be the right answer.

When you leave off the II on the 23C GP4000s is that really what you mean? That's an old tire.

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

Last edited by: RowToTri: Oct 2, 19 13:59

Re: Kona Tire Choice [xcrogers] [ In reply to ]

Oct 2, 19 14:04

Post #4 of 28 (2797 views)

Continental GP5000 23mm.

Re: Kona Tire Choice [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]

Oct 2, 19 14:04

Post #5 of 28 (2794 views)

From PD's specs:

Rim Width (Outside): 24.5mm
Rim Width (Inside): 17mm

Yes, the GP 4000s @ 23mm are not the ''II''

I'd prefer to not buy another set of tires that hang around my bike room 99.9% of the year....

________________________________________________________
Taylor Rogers

2024: IM Hamburg

Re: Kona Tire Choice [xcrogers] [ In reply to ]

Oct 2, 19 14:24

Post #6 of 28 (2760 views)

xcrogers wrote:

From PD's specs:

Rim Width (Outside): 24.5mm
Rim Width (Inside): 17mm

Yes, the GP 4000s @ 23mm are not the ''II''

I'd prefer to not buy another set of tires that hang around my bike room 99.9% of the year....

Ok... well the 25c 4000sII requires around 3 watts less than the 23c 4000s. However with that wheel you really want a 23c tire to maintain flow attachment, otherwise you will have an increase in aero drag. I do not know quantitatively how much. Are all of the tires available to you in good condition? Edit - while I do not know how much the drag will increase, I think it will be more than 3 watts. Especially at the high yaw angles Kona is known for. Probably a lot more than 3 watts. So I would go with the 23c 4000s if it is in good condition.

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

Last edited by: RowToTri: Oct 2, 19 14:29

Re: Kona Tire Choice [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]

Oct 2, 19 14:47

Post #7 of 28 (2720 views)

Thank you. Yes, generally all are in good condition with low miles.

However, just re checked the tires and one of the 23's does have a single cut in it, and while it doesn't go through the tire i would imagine it impacts the rolling once inflated (plus well, don't want to start with a tire that is bad...) I could use one 23mm GP 4000 at the front and a 25 GP 4000 II at the rear or use the 23mm attack at the front with the 23mm GP 4000 at the rear..

________________________________________________________
Taylor Rogers

2024: IM Hamburg

Re: Kona Tire Choice [xcrogers] [ In reply to ]

Oct 2, 19 14:49

Post #8 of 28 (2713 views)

The benefit you will get from whatever giant Kona draft pack you end up in will exceed whatever minor wattage difference you get from your tire choice. Don't worry about the tires, as long as you don't ride Gatorskins.

***

Re: Kona Tire Choice [xcrogers] [ In reply to ]

Oct 2, 19 14:50

Post #9 of 28 (2712 views)

Are you not considering the GP5000?

Re: Kona Tire Choice [jimatbeyond] [ In reply to ]

Oct 2, 19 14:51

Post #10 of 28 (2706 views)

Would really like to avoid buying another set of tires that only see the light of day once or twice a year....

________________________________________________________
Taylor Rogers

2024: IM Hamburg

Re: Kona Tire Choice [xcrogers] [ In reply to ]

Oct 2, 19 14:55

Post #11 of 28 (2700 views)

Why can't you just train on them after Kona also? It's a great tire, significantly better than your current options on a few fronts. It'd be a little crazy in my opinion to give up so many watts, especially when you're Kona level, for an old tire like the 4000s.

Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors

Re: Kona Tire Choice [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]

Oct 2, 19 14:59

Post #12 of 28 (2691 views)

I train outside 2-3 times a year and when I do, I use set of aluminum rims with gatorskins. Race wheels/tires are only used on race day, and I only race 2-3 times a year.

________________________________________________________
Taylor Rogers

2024: IM Hamburg

Re: Kona Tire Choice [xcrogers] [ In reply to ]

Oct 2, 19 15:00

Post #13 of 28 (2687 views)

I would use all of my race tires for training after the race.

Then buy a new pair before the next race.

Re: Kona Tire Choice [xcrogers] [ In reply to ]

Oct 2, 19 15:04

Post #14 of 28 (2679 views)

xcrogers wrote:

I train outside 2-3 times a year and when I do, I use set of aluminum rims with gatorskins. Race wheels/tires are only used on race day, and I only race 2-3 times a year.

Would you consider buying a single 23mm 5000, mounting it on the front, and then running your 25mm 4000sii on the back. That would minimize your losses and only require one tire purchase. Anything to avoid running a 4000s would seem wise. Otherwise personally I'd run the 23mm attack rather than the 23mm 4000.

Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors

Re: Kona Tire Choice [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]

Oct 2, 19 15:16

Post #15 of 28 (2665 views)

I am/would with the growing consensus (or at least my perception) that running the old 4000 is not wise but using a 23 mm tire is what I want with the wheels I’m using.

I’ll stop by a shop and see what my options are. If I do go and purchase a new tire/set is the 5000 my best ‘all purpose’ racer?

________________________________________________________
Taylor Rogers

2024: IM Hamburg

Re: Kona Tire Choice [xcrogers] [ In reply to ]

Oct 2, 19 15:40

Post #16 of 28 (2624 views)

Its all about the run anyways, just dont flat.... #gators

2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz

Re: Kona Tire Choice [xcrogers] [ In reply to ]

Oct 2, 19 15:42

Post #17 of 28 (2622 views)

There's no reason to go to a shop.

Buy a GP5000 tire from probikekit for $39.

Re: Kona Tire Choice [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]

Oct 2, 19 17:19

Post #18 of 28 (2557 views)

RowtoTri

Can you please help me with a related but different question?

What front wheel should I use for Kona? Coming from Taiwan, prefer to bring only 1 wheel with me. I have a Zipp 404 or 808 front wheel. Will be riding 808 for the rear. All wheels are firecrest, rim brake, latex tube, GP 5000 tires. 23on the front and 25 rear.

I've done Kona 2015 and 2017, power is 210AP and I'm 73kg and familiar and comfortable riding in gusty coastal winds as I ride the coast in Taiwan for 90% of my training. Which front wheel would you pack?

Darren

RowToTri wrote:

xcrogers wrote:

From PD's specs:

Rim Width (Outside): 24.5mm
Rim Width (Inside): 17mm

Yes, the GP 4000s @ 23mm are not the ''II''

I'd prefer to not buy another set of tires that hang around my bike room 99.9% of the year....

Ok... well the 25c 4000sII requires around 3 watts less than the 23c 4000s. However with that wheel you really want a 23c tire to maintain flow attachment, otherwise you will have an increase in aero drag. I do not know quantitatively how much. Are all of the tires available to you in good condition? Edit - while I do not know how much the drag will increase, I think it will be more than 3 watts. Especially at the high yaw angles Kona is known for. Probably a lot more than 3 watts. So I would go with the 23c 4000s if it is in good condition.

Re: Kona Tire Choice [SummitAK] [ In reply to ]

Oct 2, 19 17:32

Post #19 of 28 (2546 views)

SummitAK wrote:

I don't think I've seen the Attack v3 (23c) tested for rolling resistance. Probably very similar to GP4000

Better.

Force 25 is a heavy tire and lasts a long time. Doubt it has low Crr.

Re: Kona Tire Choice [rruff] [ In reply to ]

Oct 2, 19 17:55

Post #20 of 28 (2520 views)

rruff wrote:

SummitAK wrote:

I don't think I've seen the Attack v3 (23c) tested for rolling resistance. Probably very similar to GP4000

Better.

Force 25 is a heavy tire and lasts a long time. Doubt it has low Crr.

Hmm. I've never seen them test slower than the 4000SII. Both Tom A and BRR have tested them. Unless something went seriously backwards with the latest version I'd take the test results over a guess based on tire weight.

Re: Kona Tire Choice [Darren325] [ In reply to ]

Oct 2, 19 19:19

Post #21 of 28 (2464 views)

404.

Re: Kona Tire Choice [SummitAK] [ In reply to ]

Oct 2, 19 19:22

Post #22 of 28 (2454 views)

You'd assume test results on the old version even though the new Force is ~30g heavier? And the new Attack is lighter than the old one, even though it is quite a bit larger. The three I have are all <170g. Conti has actually made it so that the new Force/Attack have closer to the same longevity, instead of going through 3 Force before you wore out 1 Attack.

I didn't say the Force 25 was slower than the GP4000, but I'd bet it's slower than the Force 24 or GP5000. I consider them training tires though, not racing tires. If you don't want to risk running fragile tires, I'd suggest a GPTT on the back and an Attack on the front.

Re: Kona Tire Choice [rruff] [ In reply to ]

Oct 2, 19 20:43

Post #23 of 28 (2397 views)

rruff wrote:

You'd assume test results on the old version even though the new Force is ~30g heavier? And the new Attack is lighter than the old one, even though it is quite a bit larger. The three I have are all <170g. Conti has actually made it so that the new Force/Attack have closer to the same longevity, instead of going through 3 Force before you wore out 1 Attack.

I didn't say the Force 25 was slower than the GP4000, but I'd bet it's slower than the Force 24 or GP5000. I consider them training tires though, not racing tires. If you don't want to risk running fragile tires, I'd suggest a GPTT on the back and an Attack on the front.

It was listed as 15g heavier and the variance in tires can run close to that. It doesn’t matter because really you replied to my post about the Force rolling better than the GP4000s2. If you weren’t saying the GP4000s2 rolls better than the Force then there was no reason for your reply. The Force 24c and GP5000 weren’t part of the discussion, The OP listed the 4 tire choices he has in hand to chose from and I pointed him to past test results.

I don’t need tire advice on my end. I didn’t have good luck with the previous version of the attack or force and haven’t used them since. Depending on the scenario, I use the newer, old version GP SS in front and GP TT or Corsa Speed in the back for racing.

Re: Kona Tire Choice [Darren325] [ In reply to ]

Oct 2, 19 21:29

Post #24 of 28 (2361 views)

I'd probably go with the 404 because the aero advantage of the 808 is small, and I would want to know for sure that even if things get really gusty that I will feel comfortable at 40+ miles per hour down Hawi in the aero bars. If you feel like Kona can't throw anything at you that would make you uncomfortable on the 808, then you can go with that and be a little faster.

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

Re: Kona Tire Choice [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]

Oct 3, 19 0:56

Post #25 of 28 (2280 views)

RowToTri wrote:

I'd probably go with the 404 because the aero advantage of the 808 is small, and I would want to know for sure that even if things get really gusty that I will feel comfortable at 40+ miles per hour down Hawi in the aero bars. If you feel like Kona can't throw anything at you that would make you uncomfortable on the 808, then you can go with that and be a little faster.

Thank you so much! I am packing the 404.

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