https://www.facebook.com/.../?type=3&theater

A picture can help (this one from Euro championship, but you can find pictures with same shoes from Nice race).

In one of his last videos Sebastian said that there was something new to come from NB soon... it looks like this is the one... maybe a new shoe with carbon plate for long distance?

 
NB recently launched the 5280, with carbon plate, for short range. It is officially targeted at the mile, but I have seen some athletes using it for Super Sprint Tri (2.5km run), I think it was during WTS mixed relay.

This one might be the long range version (5k/10k - marathon) ?

You had me at carbon, but these really helped an uber biker outrun a brownlee

This was posted in Emily Sisson's Instagram stories. Supposedly called the "Fuel Cell Racer". Looks to the be same one that Kienle had on.

Yes, indeed, it seems to be these ones.

FuelCell Racer ?

They seem to have more stack than the FuelCell Rebel and Propel. Because of a carbon plate, like in FuelCell 5280 ?

It does feel like anyone not contracted to Nike / Hoka and now NB are at a disadvantage. How long until Adidas join the carbon plate party?

If these come in wide like the Rebel than I am really excited. The Rebel is a fun shoe and fits great!

I agree with this, wide width numbers (2E at least) would be awesome and it would be the first shoe of this range in wide sizes on the market which would be a great commercial strategy I suppose.

Saucony athletes have been racing in a carbon-plated shoe since New York City Marathon in '18. Linsey Corbin included.

Skechers also distributed to athletes some proto of its carbon plate version (Elite Speed, I think), last spring. There were some photos and reviews, with their black/white zebra camouflage. Sales were planned for fall (now).

But Cody Beals and Lionel Sanders are apparently sticking to their Razor 3 Hyper.

And I had see no recent sign of this shoe (or missed it). Some more tuning needed ?

Just replying to thread in general...

What is the difference between the carbon plate in all these new shoes and the carbon plates that have been in the Zoot shoes for years?

I bought the Zoot Ultra TT 5.0 back in 2013 or 2014 and it had a carbon plate in the sole. I still run in the 7.0, which also has the carbon plate.
https://www.shoebacca.com/...LSzsDqYaAizYEALw_wcB

I've never used the Zoot Ultra Race but it looks like the 4.0 from five or six years ago also has the carbon plate.
https://www.shoebacca.com/...zr7sXIEaAoXtEALw_wcB

I know these older Zoot shoes don't have the fancy foams that Nike, NB, and others are touting. But, the carbon plate is there. If I run in these Zoot shoes, have I already gained my 4 percent?

Actually, I've been racing almost exclusively in Skechers' carbon plate prototype with the zebra camo since IMChoo last year. I'm a big fan of the Razor 3 Hyper as well, but I've never raced in those. Lionel seems to prefer that model for racing. The production version of the carbon plate shoe was originally supposed to release this fall, but last I heard, it's been delayed until early 2020. Skechers hasn't made any efficiency gain claims for this shoe, but I can say that it has a distinctive feel, which I really like. I'm planning to wear them in Kona.

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CodyBeals.com | Instagram | TikTok
ASICS | Ventum | Martin's | HED | VARLO | Shimano | 4iiii | Keystone Communications

Thanks for the info, Cody, and great to hear from you.

I saw you raced in the carbon version earlier but though you were on the Razor3 recently. My mistake.
Congratulations for your previous races and win. I'm sure you will have a great race in Kona.

According to you, how is the carbon plated model compared to the Razor 3, in term of cushion ?

Also, from your rides on Strava, your SCx seems impressive, below 0,19 according to my calculations.

Thanks! I've been training mostly in the Razor 3, but still racing in the prototype. The Razor feels more cushioned and flexible. The Razor is also a little heavier (~198 vs 185 grams for my size 10). Both share the same "Hyper Burst" midsole material, which looks and feels quite different than any other midsole construction I've seen.

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CodyBeals.com | Instagram | TikTok
ASICS | Ventum | Martin's | HED | VARLO | Shimano | 4iiii | Keystone Communications

 Another picture on Kienle's facebook
https://www.facebook.com/.../?type=3&theater

The carbon plate isn't the reason any of these shoes are fast. Its the foam. We're just on slowtwitch and everyone loves carbon

I don't think that's entirely true. I think it's the combination of the carbon plate with the foam. I think if you only put ZoomX (for example) without the plate it would be too squishy and the shoe would suck. The combination of the super soft foam and the spring of the plate is the key. Just my opinion.

I agree with you.

In the initial research around the Vaporfly, it does appear (even if not formally proved) that the gain was mostly due to the fact the shoe was very cushioned, enabling the athletes to leave their knee with less angle (the more energy you have to absorb, the more angle needed, with cushioned shoes you need less), getting better leg stiffness with less energy (straighter is stiffer), saving energy (the 4% ...).

So it is not even the foam, just the amount of cushion.

But, if you have a lot of soft foam, you need to give it some form.... then the plate is needed. And the shoe will work because of cushion + reasonable form and foot protection ... and ideally some energy restitution (from plate and foam)

Then you look at the details :
a foam light and responsive is better than a foam heavy and unresponsive
a carbon plate is lighter and more responsive than a plastic one.

But most of the gain will be there even with less responsive foam and plastic plate.

There is some truth to that but also just different feeling shoes. We can establish that the Vapor Fly 4% or Nex % is the standard by which all new shoes with a carbon plate will be measured. The midsole on the VP is Pbax which is by far the most alive midsole in running right now. So yes, the combination of the Pbax and the Nike plate makes that shoe very dynamic and frankly fast feeling.

- Reebok - No Carbon plate but they have a few shoes with Pbax so you can test the foam feel without the plate. The Floatride Fast is super punchy but it doe’s have a bottoming out feel that the Vapor Fly 4% doesn’t.

- The Saucony shoe which many Saucony athletes are racing in now has a carbon plate and Pbax as the midsole. Release is sometime next year.

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Dave Jewell
Free Run Speed

The 3 pictures of this post looks like prototypes of different shoes. The sole of the last one, at least, is different to the others.

Yes


The upper being similar, it could be different versions of prototypes / pre.series of the same shoes.

I have seen at least three versions of the Carbon X in pictures before the release, with variations in color, upper stitching, ...
Frequently, several foam durometry, several different outsoles versions, .... are seen on prototypes.

Fuel Cell Racer - same midsole material as Rebel but softer.
Full length Carbon plate
Available in April

The shoe in the picture is still prototype version. His shoe in Kona closer to the shoe out in April

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Dave Jewell
Free Run Speed

I wish any of these manufactures would release a version of their racer in a wide version. I would love to try the 4% but not with these tissue boxes I have for feet.