Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
KQ in 2021
Quote | Reply
I'm looking at 2020 as a development year for myself in tri, with a 2021 goal of qualifying for Kona. I've gotten some great training advice from folks on ST and hoping you all can keep the magic coming. With about 1 1/2 years to improve, where should I focus my efforts? Granted I can't go hard in pursuit of specific areas that whole time, but what are some overarching themes and objectives to keep in mind?

About me:
-43 y/o male with about 6 years in the sport. 5'10" 155lbs. I raced my first Ironman at IMLP this past year and finished 5th in my AG in 10:15. Had trouble getting my nutrition in the last 1/4 of the bike and bonked a bit on the run. Focused on getting nutrition in during the marathon and managed a 3:40. Splits were 1:02/5:25/3:40 with about 6 min total transitions (transitions at IMLP are long!).
-HIM PR of 4:27 also set in 2019, at Tupper Lake Tinman. Splits were 32/2:23/1:29.
-Open marathon PR of 2:54 set in 2019. That was my first open marathon, so I think I could go faster with a more specific/longer block of marathon training. Figured I could run low 3:20's in the Ironman but that fell apart with the nutrition issues.
-AOS swimmer and those IM and HIM swim times are PR's. I swam 2 days/week between 7-8k yards in the lead up to IMLP. Limited my swimming in order to bike more.
-Biking I followed TR mid-volume HIM plan this past season and added my own long rides on the weekend. It probably had more intensity than I needed, but that was what I could fit in.
-Running I followed BarryP plan and ran 6 days/week around 40miles/week with 16 mile long runs being my longest. I have a running background and running is my strongest discipline, but I'm injury prone so I try to limit intensity. I did some tempo workouts leading up the the Ironman, but I think I need weekly tempo workouts to get the most out of my running.
-Married with at 40hr/week job and 3 kids 6, 2, and 9 months. I maxed out at 16 hours/week training in 2019 and that's pretty much the limit.
-Bike is a 2014 Speed Concept. My position could be lower for sure, just haven't devoted the time to fiddling with it yet.

Open to any thoughts or suggestions, thanks!

TLDR- help me get faster at the iron distance over the course of 1.5 years.

"One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time."
Last edited by: splatt: Jan 23, 20 12:58
Quote Reply
Re: KQ in 2021 [splatt] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
This is such a broad question with so many variables. Short answer - you can improve most on the bike, which will help your run off the bike as well. Mostly, get a coach, get a bike fit.
Quote Reply
Re: KQ in 2021 [splatt] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
2:54 pure vs 3:40 IM is a bonk or at best a fade. I would look at this from an execution angle, you are on the bubble with being out 1-2 spots.

Do you have power numbers for the ride? VI, IF etc?

ETA sorry you answered your own question.

Maurice
Last edited by: mauricemaher: Jan 23, 20 15:48
Quote Reply
Re: KQ in 2021 [splatt] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
If it is a real goal get a coach if you can afford it especially if you are injury prone and time poor. You will probably get so many conflicting opinions off the forum here based on the limited information you have supplied and only be more confused. I'm 44 and about 7 years in the sport. When I set the Kona goal I went through a few on the way but found the right coach who got me there and have been a few times now. I like the accountability having a coach brings.

As for nutrition consider Ucan. I have been full circle with it including racing Kona this year not using it with GI issues. I'm going back to it this season and will trial how TO used it at Kona this year and has been discussed in this thread.

https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...string=ucan#p7063814
Quote Reply
Re: KQ in 2021 [splatt] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Nice swim times from an AOS swimmer only doing two days a week. Get stronger on the bike so your run doesn’t suffer as much.

Let food be thy medicine...
Quote Reply
Re: KQ in 2021 [JackStraw13] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I agree with the above poster that the one outlier is your run. You realistically could be around 3:15. That’s not an ability issue, that’s a execution issue if you can run a 2:54 open. Maybe you over biked, maybe you had a high VI, maybe your nutrition was off.

But I also agree that you have a lot to gain on the bike. Get that down to 5 hrs, run a 3:15, and get really lucky. I’m a faster swimmer but was on a similar trajectory as you, and the same age. I KQ’d this year because I’m stubborn, dedicated, perseverant, and lucky. It will take all of those things to achieve your goal.
Quote Reply
Re: KQ in 2021 [splatt] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
You are going to get a heap of advice from people much more experienced than me, but from your stats it looks like the bike is your key limiter at the moment and probably where the main focus needs to be. You swim well relative to the volume you put in but that does not mean you should neglect to focus on that as well, as a good swim will mean you are fresher for the bike, even if the time is actually very similar.
As has been mentioned, bike fit and optimisation are likely to be key, the SC is a fast bike with a good fit so not like you need to upgrade that, you would be better off spending the money on a good bike fit, race wheels and coach.
Quote Reply
Re: KQ in 2021 [splatt] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I'm a slower swimmer, faster biker and quicker IM runner than you, also in the next AG, and hoping to KQ for 2020

Currently around 1:10 swim, 4:50 bike and 3:20 run

My stand alone HM PB is 3:07 - so if your HM PB is 2:54, you should be looking at sub 3:10 if you get your nutrition right and don't over-bike

I am strongest on the bike, therefore I can get a good bike split and leave something for the run, and that is where I think you need to focus. Everyone is different and respond to training and coaching differently. My bike training strategy, which works for me, is pretty simple. I commute to work on my bike at least twice a week, it is 20 miles each way. Even in the winter when it is 17.5 degrees F I am still commuting (Rain and snow are the exception). My ride has more than 1200ft elevation, however, I ride in low Zone 2, aim is always to it 20mph avg while not going above Z2. On top of this I add Zwift races, typically 1 hour or more long, which are at 95%+ FTP. On Saturday I do a 60 mile club ride, this tends to be at a lowish average intensity, with some intervals at 120% of FTP for 10 minutes, overall AP is pretty low, but NP is close to IM intensity, around 82%. At least once a month, I will double the Saturday ride, to get in some longer sessions. Those are my main sessions, I will normally add more zone 2 work on my turbo trainer, and in the summer, will take a long route home, adding an extra 20-30 miles. I ride around 150-180 miles a week, strangely more in the winter as I spend more time on the turbo trainer.

Since I am a strong rider, I am doing IM Lanzarote, as the tough bike course should suit me. You probably need to research what course will likely favour your strengths. One strategy may be to aim to KQ really early, much of your competition, competing in Kona in 2020, will hopefully be tapering or recovering. So possibly this is a 9-10 month journey, not 18 months
Quote Reply
Re: KQ in 2021 [splatt] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I've also got a 2021/2022 KQ goal. I did IMFL in 10:27 (with a cold that set in a couple days before that race that really crushed me on the run) but felt I could have been comfortably under 10 hours healthy.

My general idea this year is to focus on the Oly distance and cultivate more speed/power then stretch out the endurance next year. You don't really mention your race plans for 2020, but what does that look like?
Quote Reply
Re: KQ in 2021 [mattsurf] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks for all of the comments and advice. mattsurf- one of the pieces to the puzzle that your comments speak to is consistency, which I've lacked in past years due to injuries keeping me from riding or running. Also overall volume, which ties into consistency year in and year out.

Everyone else's comments focusing on the bike- thanks for pointing that out. I've put a lot of work into my riding and was feeling pretty good about it, but you've all pointed out the obvious which was not obvious to me- my bike needs more work. I do bike commute 12 miles each way to work, but I'm a fair weather commuter. Maybe it's time to reconsider that in order to add more volume.

I also appreciate the nutrition suggestion to use ucan. I was using carbo pro with electrolytes, but I realized after IMLP that my stomach can only handle a few hours of that before it stops accepting it. I'm going to give that a try. Regarding a coach, I'll definitely keep that option on the table and see what kind of improvements I can make on my own before committing to it for next season.

For reference, here are my bike numbers from IMLP:
FTP- 279
NP- 196
IF- .703
No VI captured by Garmin

For the swim, I've been doing swim focused blocks in the off season to improve technique and fitness as well as 1:1 coaching. I plan to keep doing that and hopefully improve my efficiency to arrive fresh at T1.

"One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time."
Quote Reply
Re: KQ in 2021 [matate99] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I plan to do a few sprints and a few HIM races this season. I would focus on Olys for speed like you are, but there are no Olys in my area. My thinking is similar- build the speed and power then focus on endurance next year.

"One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time."
Quote Reply
Re: KQ in 2021 [splatt] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Based on your history, unless you start training massive hours, you will not make huge additional gains (you will not do 9:30 IMLP), so your goal should not be guaranteeing entry by making top 3 AG, rather squeezing in by being good enough and not having too many stronger people that take a slot.
The most important ingredient is luck which you don't control. It may not happen even in 2021, or it may happen in 2020. There's no telling. You can't control who's showing up to compete, how good of a day they have and if they take Kona slot.

The thing I would focus on is volume and consistency. Don't bother with short distance, you don't need speed in a full IM. You need to be able to hold consistent power/pace for a long time, so focus on that. If you can, try to add as much volume as possible, it will improve your odds.
Also, make sure to nail nutrition. Personally, I don't think you can base it on ucan since you can't get enough calories from it, but its a personal thing. It just needs to work for you.
Quote Reply
Re: KQ in 2021 [dgutstadt] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Why rehearse going slow two years out?

Frequency consistency frequent consistency consistent frequency. Lots of sprints and HIMs. Ride his bike and stop getting hurt.

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
Quote Reply
Re: KQ in 2021 [splatt] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Get a coach

Swim and run.

Become a cyclist.

Process.

Race selection.

The rest is out of your hands. It’s already been determined. Kona slots are received, not taken.

Good luck

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
Quote Reply
Re: KQ in 2021 [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Ad this to the list of never-ending ST debates. Best way to get fast.....build speed first and then add endurance or just build the endurance at the speed you know you need to go for the distance.

I recall a story from my college rowing days about a rower in Philly (maybe 1xPhilly guy on here has heard it too and can recall it better than I!!). I don't recall his name. I wanna say he rowed in the 60s or 70s, but I could be way off. His way to train was to race at the speed he wanted to go for an entire 2000m race. He would race that speed starting at say 500m and then add a little more each week until he could cover the entire distance at the speed he wanted.

Sure, that's a MUCH difference distance than an IM, but the idea is the same and the debate has been around probably for as long as sports have existed. I really don't think there's a right or wrong way to do it.

I think this is probably where a coach comes in who can really dig into your history, strengths, etc. and guide you in the best possible toward your goal. And, as others said, luck will play a part--just hope fewer faster guys show up at the race your choose on the day you choose it.
Quote Reply
Re: KQ in 2021 [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I don’t know... i think there’s a consensus on the right way to do things for this particular OP

<shrugs>

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
Quote Reply
Re: KQ in 2021 [JackStraw13] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
JackStraw13 wrote:
Nice swim times from an AOS swimmer only doing two days a week. Get stronger on the bike so your run doesn’t suffer as much.

That was my first thought as well. I’d be thrilled if I could swim a 63 on two days a week

Matt
Quote Reply
Re: KQ in 2021 [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Really? We must not be reading the same thread. I've read dozens of similar threads with absolutely no consensus whatsoever. I've trained myself both ways in SBR. And other sports. I've read articles. I've talked to others. You are the first person I have ever heard proclaim that there is a "consensus" on the one way to train correctly. I guess everyone else's opinion is just "noise."
Last edited by: DFW_Tri: Jan 24, 20 9:05
Quote Reply
Re: KQ in 2021 [splatt] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
"Married with at 40hr/week job and 3 kids 6, 2, and 9 months"

You are gonna make them suffer... Those days, months, years will never come back. Kona will be there in 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024, ...

Sorry for maybe pointing out something very relevant for me. And I am a 4xqualified to Kona, 3 times before the kids, last one in 2019 with the youngest being 9yo.

Good luck.

STRAVA INSTAGRAM
Quote Reply
Re: KQ in 2021 [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
You’re right, we are not. And that’s the thing... signal and noise and all that.

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
Quote Reply
Re: KQ in 2021 [Chemist] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks guys, I was very happy with my swimming...but the caveat is that the Lake Placid swim course is known to be "fast" or as some might say, "short." Either way I'll take it! Regarding the right way to get there, for me it is to work on speed this year and then bring in more endurance going into next year. As Dr. Triax pointed out, balancing IM training with family and work life is a heavy lift, which is why I'm not doing IM training this year. I recognize the burden it places on family life, and so does my wife! That being said, my wife supports me in pursuing this dream and we've worked out what works for us and for the kids. Mainly that means that all of my workouts are done by 10am on weekends and by 6:30am during the week. My training is mostly invisible to my family because they're asleep. This approach worked well enough for 5th in my AG last year, and with a few tweaks I think it can work for 3 or 4 spots higher in 2021.

"One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time."
Quote Reply
Re: KQ in 2021 [splatt] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
splatt wrote:
Thanks guys, I was very happy with my swimming...but the caveat is that the Lake Placid swim course is known to be "fast" or as some might say, "short." Either way I'll take it! Regarding the right way to get there, for me it is to work on speed this year and then bring in more endurance going into next year. As Dr. Triax pointed out, balancing IM training with family and work life is a heavy lift, which is why I'm not doing IM training this year. I recognize the burden it places on family life, and so does my wife! That being said, my wife supports me in pursuing this dream and we've worked out what works for us and for the kids. Mainly that means that all of my workouts are done by 10am on weekends and by 6:30am during the week. My training is mostly invisible to my family because they're asleep. This approach worked well enough for 5th in my AG last year, and with a few tweaks I think it can work for 3 or 4 spots higher in 2021.

Being more "constructive" here, I think that you should work on a few fronts: make your family be a part of the IM adventure; keep on working-out early in the morning; hire a coach (as said by someone already); and buy a trainer (a good one if possible). A hint: fast a lot.
Regarding training, make sure you are able to swim in 1h or less, otherwise qualifiying it's gonna be VERY hard.

STRAVA INSTAGRAM
Quote Reply
Re: KQ in 2021 [splatt] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Well just looking at the times from IMLP this year, a 10:15 would get you 3rd place (likely a Kona spot) in the 45-49 group. This is the age group you'll be in 2021. Going sub 10 (*depending on who else shows up) would probably win the age group. So you don't need to be much faster, so just work on getting stronger on the bike and execute on the run.
Last edited by: Yosa125: Jan 24, 20 11:41
Quote Reply
Re: KQ in 2021 [splatt] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
What are your 2020 race plans? Why not shoot for this year?

I would cut back running volume, keeping the tempo and long runs, then focus on biking, get your FTP over or as close to 300. Should be a walk in the park to ride about the same or faster and feel fresh and run 20-30 minutes faster. Easy 9:45...
Quote Reply
Re: KQ in 2021 [splatt] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
It seems to me that you don't need to change much. You were maybe 15 minutes from qualifying at Lake Placid and you ran a 3:40 marathon. If you can run a 2:54 stand alone marathon and a 1:29 in a HIM you clearly can shed a lot of time off the run, easily 20 minutes. It's just a matter of figuring out what went wrong on the last run. If it was just nutrition, as you said, I don't think you need to alter your training much. If, on the other hand, you over-cooked on the bike and didn't leave enough for the run, then I'd follow the advice of those recommending you get stronger on the bike. That seems a better route than adding run volume/ intensity since you said you're injury prone.

I have no idea how you swam that fast on so little training, especially since you indicate your background is running. I'm really jealous.

Good luck! Hurry up and qualify before you reach my age group.
Quote Reply

Prev Next