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Re: Just did my first FTP. What now? [fstrnu] [ In reply to ]
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fstrnu wrote:
Etip wrote:
Thanks for all that information. Pretty much cements the fact that I need to get one of the books listed and read up, because I didn't understand almost ANYTHING you just said!!

Sorry 'bout that! I just re-read what I wrote and agree with you! Let me try to be more practical.

Question = What do I do with FTP?

Answer:

1) Use it as a starting place for 4 x 8 intervals with the goal of finding and working at the maximum power that you can produce for all four intervals.

2) Use 115% of it as as a starting place for 4 x 4 intervals with the goal of finding and working at the maximum power that you can produce for all four intervals.

3) Use 75% of it as a starting place for a once-weekly 1 x 90 endurance workout with the goal of finding and working at the power which will produce a cardiac drift of 5-10%.

This is great info- succinct and clear. Thank you!!!
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Re: Just did my first FTP. What now? [fstrnu] [ In reply to ]
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1. I did that last spring on the bike and run and it worked well for me.
2. I did that on my way to 5X5 on the bike and it worked well too.
3. Some may think that's a little high for endurance zone but different things work for different people. I'm more of 55% of Power at VO2max.
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Re: Just did my first FTP. What now? [Etip] [ In reply to ]
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Etip wrote:
This is great info- succinct and clear. Thank you!!!
You're welcome. And thank you too. I'm sure some would see that and not respond but you did so I learned something also about how to communicate :)

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Last edited by: fstrnu: Jan 8, 19 17:11
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Re: Just did my first FTP. What now? [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
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jaretj wrote:
1. I did that last spring on the bike and run and it worked well for me.

2. I did that on my way to 5X5 on the bike and it worked well too.
3. Some may think that's a little high for endurance zone but different things work for different people. I'm more of 55% of Power at VO2max.

Regarding number 3 it's totally different than zone-based and based mainly on a compromise between time and power and also prescriptive for purposes of clarity but the thinking goes like this:
  • If you have only 90 minutes of time to workout then 55% might not be adequate to provide stimulus
  • Ideally, you would be able to ride long enough such that 55% produces a cardiac drift of 5-10%
  • In my case, for example, my target event duration is two hours so...

    • when I can ride two hours I'll ride two hours and, for example, 55% might produce a 5-10% drift...
    • ...but if I only have 90 minutes to ride then I'll up the power to get a decent stimulus...

      • ...and this is the scenario I recommend for a simple plan because I figure two hours is a popular target event duration for many cyclists...

        • ...but many only have 90 minutes to train or can only tolerate 90 minutes indoors and indoor training is my specialty
        • ...but of course those who can ride their full target event duration will want to do that


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Last edited by: fstrnu: Jan 8, 19 17:31
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Re: Just did my first FTP. What now? [fstrnu] [ In reply to ]
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There can be arguments made both ways about what's best to do with 90 minutes of training time. I see your point but I know it's not for everyone.
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Re: Just did my first FTP. What now? [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah I'm not arguing because it's my prescription so there can't be an argument :)

To clarify, though, because I'm curious, are you saying that you would still do 55% for 90 minutes if target event duration was two hours?

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Re: Just did my first FTP. What now? [fstrnu] [ In reply to ]
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The 55% is a minimum needed to stimulate improvement. If the goal is to stimulate improvement in endurance with time in the saddle then there isn't a lot to be gained to go much over that if you have stimulants in other sessions during the week such as threshold and VO2max work.

Now if all you were doing were easy sessions and trying to maximize your abilities with the time provided then 75% or more would probably be a good idea. Then it also depends on if you respond to time or intensity. This blog post got me thinking about this recently:

https://alancouzens.com/...l_int_responder.html
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Re: Just did my first FTP. What now? [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
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jaretj wrote:
The 55% is a minimum needed to stimulate improvement. If the goal is to stimulate improvement in endurance with time in the saddle then there isn't a lot to be gained to go much over that if you have stimulants in other sessions during the week such as threshold and VO2max work.

Now if all you were doing were easy sessions and trying to maximize your abilities with the time provided then 75% or more would probably be a good idea. Then it also depends on if you respond to time or intensity. This blog post got me thinking about this recently:

https://alancouzens.com/...l_int_responder.html

Insert folks who do 80mi paceline rides on weekends to only net 45min above 55%. If that.
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Re: Just did my first FTP. What now? [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
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You guys realize you are mixing systems, right? 55% of pVO2max vs. 75% FTP? Those two intensities are not as far apart from each other as other readers might think. Relating both to FTP (assuming pVO2max = 120% FTP) , you're really talking about 65% vs. 75% (within the width of a brick). Both of those are still within Coggan Level 2 (barely). So, you are really talking about lower z2 vs upper z2.
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Re: Just did my first FTP. What now? [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Yes I believe I stated 55 percent of vo2max. Seen in post 28.
I used the 75 percent like fstrnu used it, as percent threshold.

For me they are about 25 wats difference
Last edited by: jaretj: Jan 9, 19 12:09
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Re: Just did my first FTP. What now? [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
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Ok. I figured that you did. But, the OP (specifically) who just conducted his first ever FTP test....might not pick up on that variation...and presumably has no idea what his pVO2max actually is. Nor how to translate between the two coordinate systems.

Its about 20 watts for me: 145 to 165. But, both are powers that I might target for a z2 ride, depending on which part of the season we are talking. Generally starting in the 145-150 range early in the season, and elevating up to the 160-165 range as summer gets into full swing. But, both powers are roughly in the same general training zone, and will elicit the same general adaptations....with magnitude of adaptation being driven mostly by total accumulated TSS.

I found that article by Alan interesting. There are some things that bug me about it...but, I can't quite put my finger on it, yet. Something makes me feel that everything isn't as separable as it implies. I also thought it was interesting that the lower-right quadrant (volume-but-not-intensity) was completely unpopulated.
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Re: Just did my first FTP. What now? [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, you are right about them being so close and I should have emphasized those differences between VO2max and Threshold percentages.

I've been following the discussion about Alan's blog post on the wattage and cycling physiology groups. There's some high class bitching going on there but some good discussion as well.
Last edited by: jaretj: Jan 9, 19 16:00
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Re: Just did my first FTP. What now? [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Tom_hampton wrote:
You guys realize you are mixing systems, right? 55% of pVO2max vs. 75% FTP? Those two intensities are not as far apart from each other as other readers might think. Relating both to FTP (assuming pVO2max = 120% FTP) , you're really talking about 65% vs. 75% (within the width of a brick). Both of those are still within Coggan Level 2 (barely). So, you are really talking about lower z2 vs upper z2.

Yes, but I was allowing for that because my 75% FTP number is just a starting place so it could go higher if drift is < 5% so jeretj's point may still be valid if I can understand it better. There are benefits into Tempo like fatigue resistance, etc., especially for athletes who are time limited vs recovery limited so I was exploring to see where it goes.

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