Jogging in the Bike Lane

Feb 27, 14 11:25

Post #1 of 58 (10248 views)

I assume most posters here both cycle and run, so this probably won't be too controversial. On the other hand, this is Slowtwitch...

First, I don't really get it. Yes, I understand that asphalt is less hard than concrete, but is there any credible evidence of less incidence of injuries on one than the other. Really, if one is so fragile as to be unable to run on concrete, you probably should be on a trail, a treadmill or taking some time off to recover from whatever the injury is.

Second, a pedestrian in the roadway is violating the law in the jurisdictions where I have looked into it. Most have an ordinance that says a pedestrian is prohibited from using the roadway where a sidewalk is present. A bike lane is part of the roadway. So, breach of law.

However, I can overlook those 2 objections if we can just agree on 2 points:

1. If you run in a bike lane, face traffic. Really, where the hell did you people grow up where you weren't taught, at like 6 years of age, that pedestrians face traffic?
2. When you see a cyclist coming, yield the lane. Either get your ass up on the sidewalk for 10 seconds or (you are facing traffic right), run out in the car lane if you want. But don't just sort of slide over (to the safe side) 6 inches and expect me to swing out into the lane of traffic potentially coming from behind me to clear you.

Yes, I was offended by the young lady he snarled "fuck you" at me this morning as I was commuting in on a busy road at 8:30 and declined to yield the lane for her. A straight shot of road on which she no doubt saw me at least 100 yards in advance.

Re: Jogging in the Bike Lane [mr. mike] [ In reply to ]

Feb 27, 14 11:33

Post #2 of 58 (10226 views)

I agree that runners should yield the lane, it is a bike lane after all.

Personally I run in the lane sometimes because the sidewalks can be very uneven and unpredictable surfaces. They crack a lot and don't get the maintenance they should.

Re: Jogging in the Bike Lane [MattAune] [ In reply to ]

Feb 27, 14 11:37

Post #3 of 58 (10197 views)

I get that. Or sometimes the sidewalk is cluttered with pedestrians walking. But just yield the lane. And I don't mean scooch over and only take part of it. I mean GTFO of it. Not directed at you. Just slowly exhaling my rant.

Re: Jogging in the Bike Lane [mr. mike] [ In reply to ]

Feb 27, 14 11:38

Post #4 of 58 (10190 views)

Yea, about a year and half ago I had a game of chicken with Chrissie Wellington. She was running in bike lane as I was coming at her on my bike. She won the game of chicken as clearly her position was she owned the bike lane. You can do search as it is written up in detail.

Re: Jogging in the Bike Lane [mr. mike] [ In reply to ]

Feb 27, 14 11:44

Post #5 of 58 (10160 views)

Ill jog (soft j) in the bike lane often because it's usually in better shape,less crowded and less likely to be covered in snow as the sidewalk. Always facing traffic and always yielding to bike (i'll just tuck right against the curb or hop up on the grass). For New York

Quote:

Pedestrians are required to use sidewalks where they are provided and safe to use. When sidewalks are not provided, a pedestrian is required to walk on the left side of the roadway facing traffic [Section 1156-b, NYS Vehicle & Traffic Law].

It's a pretty big loophole for me to decide when a sidewalk is safe to use. Any ice or broken sidewalk = unsafe in my book

Last edited by: npage148: Feb 27, 14 11:48

Re: Jogging in the Bike Lane [mr. mike] [ In reply to ]

Feb 27, 14 11:51

Post #6 of 58 (10128 views)

I think you're confusing protocol with common courtesy. I run in the road, the bike lane, wherever...but I GTFO of the way of things that will kill me and people who the road/path/etc. is intended for (in that order).

Re: Jogging in the Bike Lane [mr. mike] [ In reply to ]

Feb 27, 14 11:54

Post #7 of 58 (10110 views)

mr. mike wrote:

I assume most posters here both cycle and run, so this probably won't be too controversial. On the other hand, this is Slowtwitch...

First, I don't really get it. Yes, I understand that asphalt is less hard than concrete, but is there any credible evidence of less incidence of injuries on one than the other. Really, if one is so fragile as to be unable to run on concrete, you probably should be on a trail, a treadmill or taking some time off to recover from whatever the injury is.

Second, a pedestrian in the roadway is violating the law in the jurisdictions where I have looked into it. Most have an ordinance that says a pedestrian is prohibited from using the roadway where a sidewalk is present. A bike lane is part of the roadway. So, breach of law.

However, I can overlook those 2 objections if we can just agree on 2 points:

1. If you run in a bike lane, face traffic. Really, where the hell did you people grow up where you weren't taught, at like 6 years of age, that pedestrians face traffic?
2. When you see a cyclist coming, yield the lane. Either get your ass up on the sidewalk for 10 seconds or (you are facing traffic right), run out in the car lane if you want. But don't just sort of slide over (to the safe side) 6 inches and expect me to swing out into the lane of traffic potentially coming from behind me to clear you.
______

I'm a sidewalk runner by choice, but I have no issue with runners in the bike lane .... easy to see and easy to get around. What irritates me most are bikers going the wrong direction on the bike lane and motorized bikes/ golf carts using bike lanes.

Dave

Yes, I was offended by the young lady he snarled "fuck you" at me this morning as I was commuting in on a busy road at 8:30 and declined to yield the lane for her. A straight shot of road on which she no doubt saw me at least 100 yards in advance.

Re: Jogging in the Bike Lane [mr. mike] [ In reply to ]

Feb 27, 14 12:05

Post #8 of 58 (10067 views)

I jog in it all the time. Just easier to navigate the bike lane than dealing with cluttered sidewalks that are unkept and often have all kinds of gnarly cracks, etc.

I do tend to get out of the way for people using the lane, however. That said, I've had guys get off their bikes and go beserk because I'm not on the sidewalk.

Re: Jogging in the Bike Lane [mr. mike] [ In reply to ]

Feb 27, 14 12:07

Post #9 of 58 (10055 views)

Usually I run in the street so that I'm more visible to cars. Running on a sidewalk that has a lot of driveways is a recipe for getting hit. Likewise, approaching intersections (with stop signs, not lights), I'm much more visible on the road than on the sidewalk.

If the closest part of the street to the sidewalk happens to be a bike lane, that's where I run.

Also, I often run in the direction of traffic, simply because cars entering the road from cross streets and driveways do not look to their right before turning right. When they look to the left (into traffic), they see me.

In short, depending on the specifics of the road, I run in the location and direction that makes me least likely to get hit by a car (or a douchebag cyclist).

On the road I'm usually running 7.5 to 8.5 mph. Which means I sometimes pass people on cruiser/hybrid bikes, especially on hills. We chuckle about it and wish each other a good morning. But when I pass guys on road bikes on steep hills, they're extremely cranky about it. Why is that?

But I digress. When you pass a lady who's on a hybrid going 8 mph, do you yell at her for clogging your bike lane? If not, then why do you care if I'm running in that bike lane at the same speed, going with traffic? If the lady jogger you threatened this morning was on a bike heading the same direction as you, would you have pushed her off the road?

And finally...you have the potential to cause a lot of harm to a pedestrian. It's your responsibility to avoid them, regardless of you not liking the reason that they're in your way. Do you act the same way to cyclists when you're in your car?

Re: Jogging in the Bike Lane [mr. mike] [ In reply to ]

Feb 27, 14 12:16

Post #10 of 58 (10009 views)

I had an incident last summer that really pissed me off. Local high school cross country team was running towards me 3 wide and about 5 deep... taking up the entire brake down lane. I saw them coming from a good half mile away and moved into the road about 3 feet, giving them a lot of space. As I am approaching the squad of runners, one of the smart ass front runners says "Hey asshole, there's an fucking bike lane for a reason, why don't you use it?" ... I was pretty pissed. But it's high school kids so what can do you. As I passed by the school (the school I graduated from mind you) I stopped in. There was a round bellied gentleman standing with a clipboard and timing watch. I asked him if he was the C.C. coach. He said he was. I told him what happened and he replied "So what?" I told him that if I was a part of a team that had conducted in that manner we would have had some pretty hard practices in our future. It was clear not one single fuck was given by this coach. It was very disappointing but I got over it pretty quickly.

If you want to use the road you have to understand people are going to be impatient assholes ...cars, runners, and other bikers. As long as I make it home in one piece I consider it a good day now.

"4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul"

Re: Jogging in the Bike Lane [AlwaysCurious] [ In reply to ]

Feb 27, 14 12:39

Post #11 of 58 (9933 views)

Running on the sidewalk is suicidal. I will take a 0.001% of being killed by a car, over the 100% chance of getting injured on the sidewalk by the thousands of perils on finds there.
Not sure why yielding to bikes would be a problem. They do have right of way and hopefully you are traveling in opposite directions and can see them.

It seems to me that the real contentious issue is the "bike path."
Here are some thoughts:
1) It is not safe to use a bike path for training. I do not care who has right of way. An argument between a baby stroller and a TT bike might initially go well for the cyclist, but expect problems. Also too many sharp turns, narrow bridges and uneven surfaces.
2) It is not convenient to use the bike path for commuting.
3) Thus if you want to go somewhere fast, or on time, on a bike, you belong on the road.
4) On the other hand, if you are just playing around with a bike, your rights do not exceed those of the joggers, and baby strollers. Joggers and walkers might not always jump out of the way and apologize profusely. And runner's might dare to pass you.

Re: Jogging in the Bike Lane [tlc13] [ In reply to ]

Feb 27, 14 12:41

Post #12 of 58 (9924 views)

tlc13 wrote:

Yea, about a year and half ago I had a game of chicken with Chrissie Wellington. She was running in bike lane as I was coming at her on my bike. She won the game of chicken as clearly her position was she owned the bike lane. You can do search as it is written up in detail.

I believe it is written somewhere. Yes- Chrissie does own the bike lane. :) (I've never met her- but I've only heard great things about her as a person. I would be honored to yield to her. She's earned it)

Re: Jogging in the Bike Lane [dirtymangos] [ In reply to ]

Feb 27, 14 12:50

Post #13 of 58 (9891 views)

dirtymangos wrote:

Running on the sidewalk is suicidal. I will take a 0.001% of being killed by a car, over the 100% chance of getting injured on the sidewalk by the thousands of perils on finds there.
Not sure why yielding to bikes would be a problem. They do have right of way and hopefully you are traveling in opposite directions and can see them.

It seems to me that the real contentious issue is the "bike path."
Here are some thoughts:
1) It is not safe to use a bike path for training. I do not care who has right of way. An argument between a baby stroller and a TT bike might initially go well for the cyclist, but expect problems. Also too many sharp turns, narrow bridges and uneven surfaces.
2) It is not convenient to use the bike path for commuting.
3) Thus if you want to go somewhere fast, or on time, on a bike, you belong on the road.
4) On the other hand, if you are just playing around with a bike, your rights do not exceed those of the joggers, and baby strollers. Joggers and walkers might not always jump out of the way and apologize profusely. And runner's might dare to pass you.

Exactly this. Crosswalks and driveway crossings don't exist anymore in the vehicular world and running on the sidewalk is asking to get clipped. But as a runner in the bike lane you should definitely be running against traffic and yielding the lane to the cyclist, those two points should be common sense.

Re: Jogging in the Bike Lane [SurfingLamb] [ In reply to ]

Feb 27, 14 12:53

Post #14 of 58 (9878 views)

SurfingLamb wrote:

I jog in it all the time. Just easier to navigate the bike lane than dealing with cluttered sidewalks that are unkept and often have all kinds of gnarly cracks, etc.

I do tend to get out of the way for people using the lane, however. That said, I've had guys get off their bikes and go beserk because I'm not on the sidewalk.

I run in the bike lane on the esplanade all the time, both against and with traffic (view is better) :) I do go into the parking lane when a bike comes up, and I am pretty conscientious as I'd want the same courtesy, but never had anyone go off on me. Were they wearing an Ironfly kit? Those guys are generally kinda surly :)

ETA - we actually had Torrance PD one morning on the loudspeakers telling four of use "You cannot run in the street, use the sidewalk" I pulled him over and (nicely) asked if that was the law, and could he show me. He fumbled around a bit, but finally found one about pedestrians in bike lanes. I've had several cops drive by while running there and no further incidents.

Last edited by: ChrisM: Feb 27, 14 12:57

Re: Jogging in the Bike Lane [mr. mike] [ In reply to ]

Feb 27, 14 12:58

Post #15 of 58 (9852 views)

The auto driver said, "what are you doing riding your bike in the car lane, thats for cars, you need to GTFO my car lane if you see me coming; and why do you ride in the same direction as me, where the hell did you learn that? Ride opposite direction so you can see when me and my car are using the car lane and you need to get out of my way"

------------------------------------------------------------
some days you're the windshield some days the bug

Re: Jogging in the Bike Lane [AlwaysCurious] [ In reply to ]

Feb 27, 14 12:59

Post #16 of 58 (9850 views)

"When you pass a lady who's on a hybrid going 8 mph, do you yell at her for clogging your bike lane? If not, then why do you care if I'm running in that bike lane at the same speed, going with traffic."
__________________________________

No, I do not yell at the lady on the bike who is doing something in the part of the roadway for which it is designed and which she is legally entitled to do. Neither of those applies to you running thoughtlessly and illegally.

Your examples understandably go to the extreme also. 8 mph is at the extreme slow end of the speed someone will ride a bike (and I specifically didn't say "a cyclist"), and on the high end of the speed at which a jogger will move.

Re: Jogging in the Bike Lane [ChrisM] [ In reply to ]

Feb 27, 14 14:41

Post #17 of 58 (9701 views)

Just curious, what is the CA law about jogging in the bike lane?

and why would you run on the esplanade when you can run on the strand? And what is the ediquette of running on the strand? I stay close to the walk path in Redondo (but in the bike lane), on the pedestrian path in Manhattan (I've heard they give tickets for using the bike path), on the bike path in Dockweiler and on the access road in Playa. I've gotten yelled at by cyclist in Dockweiler.

Re: Jogging in the Bike Lane [torrey] [ In reply to ]

Feb 27, 14 14:52

Post #18 of 58 (9672 views)

torrey wrote:

Just curious, what is the CA law about jogging in the bike lane?

and why would you run on the esplanade when you can run on the strand? And what is the ediquette of running on the strand? I stay close to the walk path in Redondo (but in the bike lane), on the pedestrian path in Manhattan (I've heard they give tickets for using the bike path), on the bike path in Dockweiler and on the access road in Playa. I've gotten yelled at by cyclist in Dockweiler.

We do it all, strand, sidewalk, street, etc. Personally, I prefer running on top on the esplanade rather than on the strand, view is better, can see when there's whales, etc. Strand you have a narrow path shared by walkers, runners, cyclists, skateboarders, skaters, etc. There isn't always a parallel walk /run path (i.e., down near the avenues) but when there is it's often uneven with lots of cracks. No big whoop, i run on the bike portion anyway like you, off to the right, but given the choice I'd go up top. I also prefer the little hills between Knob Hill and the pier, breaks it up a bit than the straight flat shot to the pier.

When I run north from my gym (spectrum) I run on the bike path through hermosa (as there's no choice) then run on the pedestrian path in mahnattan, back to the bike path near hyperion (again, no other choice). I've run on the manhattan bike path, never seen any tickets. Dockweiler, that area between hyperion and imperial where the access road starts, there really isn't any other option other than the bike path is there? I don't run up that far anyway. But we don't use the bike path there either even when we're riding come to think of it, we ride on vista del mar.

Quick google search: Vehicle code 21966. "No pedestrian shall proceed along a bicycle path or lane where there is an adjacent adequate pedestrian facility." So yes, it's against the law. However, that wouldn't cover the strip between the bike lane and the parking spaces on esplanade. Don't believe that's illegal, but it may be. Cops here are pretty lax, unless it's summer and you blow a stop sign, then you pay

Re: Jogging in the Bike Lane [mr. mike] [ In reply to ]

Feb 27, 14 15:34

Post #19 of 58 (9615 views)

mr. mike wrote:

Yes, I was offended by the young lady he snarled "fuck you" at me this morning as I was commuting in on a busy road at 8:30 and declined to yield the lane for her. A straight shot of road on which she no doubt saw me at least 100 yards in advance.

So the irony of us cyclists complaining about how cars ought to respect us and then now, having a huge problem with runners is lost on you here? Reading this, I get that you saw a lady running from at least 100 yards away, zoomed straight at her without moving to the side at all, and then were offended when she snarled "fuck you" in response to almost being hit by a cyclist who apparently didn't think she should have been there.

How about this, from 100 yards out: check your 6, slow down slightly, move over slightly as traffic permits, if it doesn't permit, slow down more, then smile and nod, and say "excuse me". You're a guy commuting to work, not a starving almost-made-it desperate lonely pro racer clawing out the single flat-out interval that will save his season. Chill out and be nice!!

-Eric

Re: Jogging in the Bike Lane [mr. mike] [ In reply to ]

Feb 27, 14 15:49

Post #20 of 58 (9580 views)

It would be totally inappropriate to purposely sweat / snot out, or spill water as you passed such folks... runners, walkers, mums with strollers (meant to be jogging but are being lazy buggers).... That said it can happen accidentally...
Walky / runnists... don't complain if this happens when you are in a bike lane with a clear and safe option to use the foot path...

More importantly IMO both parties will be in a right state if / when, the pedestrian steps in the path of the cyclist.. if I can stove in the rear qtr and tear off the bumper (fender to those for whom the English language is optional) of a corolla (got some cool pics of that mess...), then one can only imagine the state of a pedestrian being hit by 80kgs of bike and rider at 30 to 40+kmh... UGLY.....

None of this will change them though... many are the folk that drive inconsiderately in their cars around riders..

Perhaps if riders are polite to walkers, those same walkers will be polite to riders when they inevitably get in their cars.....???? or not...

Re: Jogging in the Bike Lane [mr. mike] [ In reply to ]

Feb 27, 14 15:51

Post #21 of 58 (9572 views)

When you see a cyclist coming, yield the lane. Either get your ass up on the sidewalk for 10 seconds or (you are facing traffic right), run out in the car lane if you want. But don't just sort of slide over (to the safe side) 6 inches and expect me to swing out into the lane of traffic potentially coming from behind me to clear you.

Sometimes it's not possible or practical to just step up onto the sidewalk. Often there's a verge or parkway between the street and the sidewalk.

And run out in the car lane so that the cyclist can go between the runner (presumably going in the opposite direction) and the curb? That's a recipe for disaster. If I'm running and move to my right (cyclist's left) to get out of the way, I'll bet 9 times ourt of 10 swings out even further into the traffic to still go around me. Or we end up playing a game of chicken. No, I'll move closer to the curb.

Why is this even an issue? It's really quite easy. Spot the runner in the distance, assume he's not going to yield, look over left shoulder to see that it's clear, and then move left to avoid hitting runner. Kind of like what you do when you see broken glass or other debris, parked car, pothole, funnel for sewer drainage, bad asphalt, parallel cracks, etc., in the bike lane. I do this countless times every single ride, and it's never been an issue. Why is cycling so complicated for some people?

Re: Jogging in the Bike Lane [EricTheBiking] [ In reply to ]

Feb 27, 14 16:01

Post #22 of 58 (9554 views)

How about this, from 100 yards out: check your 6, slow down slightly, move over slightly as traffic permits, if it doesn't permit, slow down more, then smile and nod, and say "excuse me". You're a guy commuting to work, not a starving almost-made-it desperate lonely pro racer clawing out the single flat-out interval that will save his season. Chill out and be nice.

This. I usually say "good morning" or a quick wave, especially if she's hot. We're both out exercising and, hopefully, enjoying it.

Re: Jogging in the Bike Lane [AlanShearer] [ In reply to ]

Feb 27, 14 16:33

Post #23 of 58 (9507 views)

But say "fuck you" to the ugly ones.... :-)

Fair enough...

Re: Jogging in the Bike Lane [mr. mike] [ In reply to ]

Feb 27, 14 18:57

Post #24 of 58 (9353 views)

worse than runners in the bike lane are bikes on the sidewalk. i live in a college town with lots of recreational 'cyclists' and bike commuters. during one particular run i had a hard time navigating past an overweight man on a bike who was struggling to pedal up a hill while riding on the sidewalk (with a clearly marked bike lane next to said sidewalk. bikes painted in the lane and everything). i assertively advised he should ride in the bike lane as i passed him. he told me i shouldn't be so rude. i told him he shouldn't ride with his nasty ass crack showing (it was). the joys of living in a college town (though i do enjoy snickering at the walk-of-shame-co-eds during my early morning runs and ogling the shirtless frat boys in the springtime)

Re: Jogging in the Bike Lane [mr. mike] [ In reply to ]

Feb 27, 14 19:49

Post #25 of 58 (9296 views)

Here in Honolulu, it's common to see it. I sometimes end up having to run in the bike lane with the flow of traffic because a throng of tourists is completely blocking the sidewalk. I deal with it and move back onto the sidewalk when I can. If I'm riding and see someone running in the bike lane, I just take the regular lane and move around them. Easy enough.

But what grinds my gears are idiots cycling (or skateboarding) at high speeds on the sidewalks or the wrong way in bike lanes. I don't play Mr. Nice Athlete at that point and give them a proper yelling at to tell them how effing stupid and dangerous they are for doing so.

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