Awesome... this site is blocked by my employer because it's a "gambling site". Ummm, no.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Or its a story about a guy who gets caught does his time and beats someone who's to por a sport to congratulate a winner due to his past but apparently isnt above setting aside moral considerations if cash is involved

All depends how you look at it

Carry on

ok, now you're back almost on track. there is a lot of issue to discuss and you can start another thread about the money/team issue. I think it would be interesting

But it doesn't change the stand that elite athletes do in triathlon. While the system is poor and give a second chance, there is a very strong part of the professional that take on them to pass a clear message that a second chance doesn't exist in professional triatlon. I would had done the same thing when racing as a professional and i do this as a coach of other professional athletes.

There is no such thing as doing your time when caught for EPO. The advantage carry much longer than the sanction. Those athletes aren't welcome anymore. This isn't cycling where drugs and doping as still very well accepted by the sport.

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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
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Part of "doing your time" is getting shat on if you choose to return. People will glare at you, people will talk shit about you behind your back, to your face, and on the internet. People will wear "dopers suck" t-shirts on the podium and refuse to shake your hand. If you're lucky, people will throw bags of piss on you. Being suspended from competition for 2 years is only part of the punishment. Dopers beware.

Gambles and all the other athletes have every right not to applaud or shake his hand. If that is too much for Guerra to handle then he's even weaker than his cheater past indicates. Spraying champagne on Gamble's family? Disgusting behavior, but we already know he is willing to do disgusting things to himself and other people so we should not be suprised.

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Ed O'Malley
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But it doesn't change the stand that elite athletes do in triathlon. While the system is poor and give a second chance, there is a very strong part of the professional that take on them to pass a clear message that a second chance doesn't exist in professional triatlon. I would had done the same thing when racing as a professional and i do this as a coach of other professional athletes.

There is no such thing as doing your time when caught for EPO. The advantage carry much longer than the sanction. Those athletes aren't welcome anymore. This isn't cycling where drugs and doping as still very well accepted by the sport.[/quote]
I agree. I think if you have been banned for something likeEPO, and even after a return you should not be eligible for prize purse.

X 2

Would have been worth whatever sanction WTC handed down

What a lowlife slimeball

The story sounds like bullshit. He was minding his own business, didn't shake hands, was just quiet and smug as can be about his unassailable integrity and dignity, and then, quick as a cat, a raging Guerra chewed off the top of the Champagne bottle with his teeth and sprayed his family. I suspect a few words being exchanged was left out of the story.

Sort of my point, apparently his integrity is directly proportional to the level of compensation received

Podiums are going to be awesome now if you've a doper and one of the thirteen - the insults could be epic

I guess I'll be the only one. I think they both acted childish. If Joe really wanted to make a statement (and I can't pretend to understand having to walk a fine line of corporate keeping happy and sponsor keeping happy and your own ethics) it would seem to me that he could have worn a shirt like some other pro did (as there is precedent) "Dopers Suck" or something other than throwing a water bottle. i certainly would have had words, but throwing things is on par with spraying with champagne when it could be argued and there is precedent for winners spraying the crowd and other podium winners during the ceremony. it could have been seen as joe being way out of line and the winner simply celebrating. aamof i'm having to take joe's word that the spray was vindictive as it seems like a normal thing that is done at a ceremony.

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So even if words were said what does that matter? I think I learned in 3rd grade that if someone says something to you which you don't like, it isn't ok to hit them. or in this case spray someone with champagne.

While it might not excuse Guerra's actions, it would certainly change the tone of the story, wouldn't it? Instead of a delicate snowflake making a subtle statement against doping and getting sprayed without cause, it would be a poor loser doing his best to ruin the moment of someone who doped years ago in a different sport with a completely different mentality about the acceptance of PEDs and then things escalating from there.

Well said.. In our society, people are given second a chance .. and sometimes a third chance.. Felons get back on the streets and it's tough for them to find work because they're branded a felon. The guy is clean right now (supposedly) and therefore he should not be treated as a doper. Even in the Olympics, Justin Gatlin did his suspension and came back to win bronze.

See JonnyO's response above. The benefits from doping last well beyond the ban.

I believe that statement is unproven and unlikely. The human body tends to fall back into equilibrium once you stop doing something that pulled you up. For example, if you normally run a 10K in 45minutes but you do special training that gets you to the 43 min pace... if you suddenly stop that special training, you probably go back to the 45 min pace. Maybe a bad example but things tend to go back to normal.

Reminds me of Chris Brown (singer) getting upset that people were still giving him crap over hitting his girlfriend. He said something about people should move on because it was a while ago and he's over it and been in court for it. No, dude. You don't get to decide when everybody else is over something. And that's the risk you take when behaving badly.

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I have no evidence to back this up, however, Person A and Person B both train the same way for 5 years. Person A is on EPO for 5 years and is able to train harder, longer, and recover faster than Person B and thus, gets faster than Person B. Person A gets popped for EPO and goes off the juice. How long does it take for Person A to get back the level Person B was at the whole time by training pure? 2 years? 5 years? Who knows. In my opinion, based on absolutely nothing but my gut and what seems logical, Person A will always be at a level beyond Person B as he was able to train beyond them for many years.

Seems like there are lots of possibilities perspectives/explanations for a former doper like this. Two of the more extreme ends might be:

1.) Guy is a psychopath/asshole willing to cheat in any and every way. He got caught doping as a pro cyclist and has moved on to easier pickings in triathlon where he is still cheating but hasn't been caught yet.
2.) Guy was a naive young man put in a tough situation with a sport/team that was dirty and made some poor decisions that he regrets. After being caught he decided to move on to a sport with fewer temptations to cheat and is trying to re-create himself there as a clean athlete.

I'm amazed that so many people seem to immediately assume something close to scenario #1. I don't know this particular guy at all and maybe that scenario is closest to the truth, but I'm inclined to think the story is more nuanced than that the guy is essentially just "evil".

x2

Kathy,
According to the blog Joe did not throw a water bottle: his dad did. According to the blog Joe simply did not shake hands.

Apologist! Get him!


+1 Just like the story told by Gambles of what he felt happened at the banquet, there are likely a few different versions of why Guerra doped. I've not seen anything on that end, which I think most tend not to care about.

Looking over the splits, Guerra's doping past must only be helping him on that bike, or maybe he's still a hell of biker without the juice...

One thing I think we as a sport do far better than T&F or cycling is stand up as pros and tell convicted dopers (& by doper I mean true intending doping like blood transfusion or EPO) to fuck off and go away. I think this is great because it curbs any opportunity of omertà. Cycling got its mess because everyone was silent and were chasing each other in the dope race to the sky. Decades long too. Triathlon is saying NO YOU ARE NOT WELCOME HERE. And that collective behavior is far better than any drug test because it's a test of your peers. And, I think collectively we are protective especially of former doped cyclists crossing over to SBR because with them comes a culture.

I read this story to my wife and her face turned to pure and total hilarity and then she said "I can only imagine what you'd do if he sprayed me and your dad with champagne like that!!!" Certainly faster than Ali v Liston he'd be on the deck. I'm not saying that with any particular pride either....that's just fight or flight mentality and some dude just sprayed my family!!

Now...I will say I don't judged this guy for doing EPO in cycling. I don't know where he came from, don't know his circumstance as to what life cycling could give him from what life he grew up with etc....I grew up silver spoon so his decision to dope and circumstance that led to it I won't judge. But I will say it's 2015 not 1998...go chase your dragon back on 2 wheels....in SBR...in this era...you are not welcomed.

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@rhyspencer

"The benefits from doping last well beyond the ban." The current science agrees with the preceding statement, and not your disbelief in this possibility. Science feels it's more clear cut: that doping provides a life long advantage. Gambles, was robbed of his win, but unfortunately the rules about doping are the world that pros must operate in- whether they are clean or dirty.

http://www.bbc.com/...environment-24730151

http://www.bbc.com/...0/athletics/29510575

If you remove psychopath and evil from scenario #1 it's a lot closer to the truth most of the time than scenario #2, which is a very naive scenario ime.

Doping controls are not enough so peer pressure and non acceptance from fans and sponsors are the most effective deterrents against doping. There's no question, according to the current rules, that convicted dopers have as much right to race again as anyone else after serving their ban. However, the rest of us have as much right to not welcome them back or support them when they start racing again.

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BA coaching http://www.bjornandersson.se

I'd go with a hell of a biker. These guys show BOATLOADS of talent before they're ever shuttled near the pro ranks (and the doping).

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