Well, that sucked donkey nuts. It’s so much harder when you aren’t in swim shape.

400 SKPS
4x50 alt scull/drill by 25
4x25 back

3x (
300 swim
3x50 desc 1-3
50ez kick
)

200 warm down

It felt like I was swimming through molasses. The “quick” repeats on the 50’s were about 8 secs off where I was a year ago. And the leg cramps. Oh the leg cramps.

Back to the grindstone.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

I wanna know what your shitty times were... So, I know how far I have to go the get that "bad".

50s day. But first...

3.7m run at lunch.

Evening swim:
WU: 4x100

MS: 30x50 (20s) usrpt @42: failed at #21, #28
Went all out on #30... 38s.

There in the late middle (15-19), I got into a rhythm at 41s flat. Man that felt good. Everything felt in sync, and very streamlined. Then the set started to catch up with me.

CD: 100ez

Evening run on the treadmill... For a double day in to 100/100.

Jan 7/7, 11kscy
R/d/s: 22/24/18

8 seconds off from a year ago is likely 8 seconds of where we will get after infinity years of swimming.....now I need to complain in misery with Lionel Sanders that is sucks being an adult onset swimmer with the desire to attain some level of fish status.

Take that Lionel crap back to one the other 4000 Lionel threads! /pink

My flat out 50's were like 39s. A year ago I would have been doing 31-33's for the same set, depending on how tired I was and which lane I got in the pool.

And my cough that I thought was all better (that I've had since early November) is back.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Lionel should be the king of this fish thread. He's the ultimate adult onset swimmer who NEEDS to be fish like.

This is the ONLY THREAD on ST that matters to Lionel. All the other threads about his biking, his gear, his running....he's got that nailed already. This is the only thread and the posters on this thread (not you or I but guys like Jason and Monty and Tallswimmer and RealAB) are the ONLY ONES ON ST who can likely help him make front pack in Kona. Heck Tallswimmer has the "misfortune" of being a 400IMer when Phelps and Lochte were ruling!!!! Lionel needs to talk to all these guys.

Now where were we with our adult onset misery? On a plus note I hired a sales director, who is forced to join me for all my adult onset swimming. That was a "job perk" of being at an underpaid startup. I am in the process of moving our offices 1.5km from the pool this quarter (there is some benefit of being a punching bag for investors and customers....I get to decide where to put our office for our expansion LOL).

SCM since I see you did 25s?

Yeah, virtually all of my swimming is SCM, since that's how the pool is set up at the times I can get there.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

That's sub-36 scy. My all-out 50scy, at the end of my 30x50 set last night was 38s. I suppose that might be similar enough to Jason's set. So, I'm not 8 seconds off his "molasses" time; only 3s...but, FFS!!!

Sigh. You're right, it sucks being an AOS. Why didn't my parents force me to stay in swimming?

really busy past few days. Sunday was my first no-run day in quite awhile. I stairmastered and am still achy from it!

today 4.8 mi run, 1275 yd swim

600 w/u
50 kick
2 x 100 on 1:30 first 25 fly
2 x 100 on 1:40 first 50 back
50 as 25 breast/25 free
50 kick
100 fast free 1:14
25 kick c/d

Jan. swims = 4
runs/total days/swims = 24/25/14

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

I'm just here for the Lionel discussion

First day back in the pool after a break for the holidays (my pool was closed for 10 days). Felt great, albeit a bit slower than I was hoping.
Hoping to contribute more to this thread in the coming months. My goal is to get to a sub-30 HIM swim.

Yesterday's nighttime workout after spending the morning resistance training.
W/U:
5 x (100 free/50 pull)

Main set:
8*300 alternating free and pull

C/D:
50 easy

Total: 3200 scy

Decided to do some shorter intervals.
SCY all free

400S/200K/200P
12x100 on 1:30 (1:15-1:18)
6x100P on 1:30 (1:13-1:15)
12x50 on 50 (35-38)
6x50P on 50 (34-38)
4x50K on 1:15 (1:02-1:08) still can’t kick.
100 cool down

3800 yards

We need Lionel for the Lionel discussion so that Monty, Tallswimmer, Jason and RealAB can brow beat him into Front Pack Kona swim status. This is all that guy needs to do to win Kona. This thread is all he needs, but he's not here and that's his loss. So Jason and crew are stuck with age group AOS like Tom and I who will never make front pack at anything!!!!!

Lol - if only it were that simple...

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Monday night attempt to get into fly shape practice. This may be enough for me to embarrass myself in a 200 fly in a meet in a couple of weeks.

300 WU
4 x 50 drill / free

50 fly. 1:15
75 fly. 1:20
100 fly 1:40
75 fly. 1:20
50 fly. 1:15

4 x 50 kick @ 1:05

50 fly :50
75 fly. 1:10
100 fly 2:00
75 fly. 1:10
50 fly :50

300 easy pull

8x 25 fly with fins @40

What? You guys are telling me that even the collective genius on the ST fish thread cannot get Lionel to FOP Pro in the Kona swim? What kind of service is that? Lionel should cancel his subscription to the fish thread in that case!!!!!

Monday night attempt to get into fly shape practice. This may be enough for me to embarrass myself in a 200 fly in a meet in a couple of weeks. //

I'm in the same boat, only I have a longer runway until I have to strap on the anchor and try and swim 200 fly. Were those your interval times you posted, or the swam times? SCY/SCM/LCM? What are you shooting for?


I started last week doing a set(if you can call it a set) of 50's fly@1;00 followed by a 50 dolphin kick@1;30. I did 4 the first time, then 6 the other day. I plan to keep adding more and more(until it actually becomes a set), try and hold the pace, and eventually close down the interval. I figure if I can do maybe 15 to 20 of these, that might be close to my 200 pace. I really dont have any benchmarks to think this, just a gut feeling. Maybe some regular fliers could chime in on what they think a good test would be, and if my set might be a good indicator. (how many do you all think?)

Those were the send off times in SCY. My times were roughly 37/58/1:20/1:03/40 for the first set. On the second, I was just trying to survive. I don’t really have a time i am shorting for, it’s been about 10 years since I swam the 2 fly. I’d like to just keep my stroke together. I think if I do that I’ll be about 2:30.

My favorite set is similar to the set of 100s free with the defending interval, except also defending the reps. 5 @ 60, 4 @ 55 ...

I think if I do that I’ll be about 2:30. //

Good deal, and yes it is all about holding onto that stroke. Right now I'm trying to learn to breath every stroke, never have done that, so it is still a bit weird. I still have some speed, but man, when I finish a 50 at pace, I cannot fathom going another 6 laps right now, can barley think about 2 more at this point. Hopefully some focused training will help with that, but honestly, I dont see many 62 year old dudes doing that 200fly anymore, probably a good reason too!!


SO I started doing 36/37's for those 50's, figure if I can do 15 of them at that speed, maybe a 2;30 something for me too! And about 8 years since I swam any pool race, so a lot of catching up to do..Good luck, keep up posted here on the fishes thread how you are doing, I will probably poach a workout or two from you, as we seem to be around the same paces...

2 fly is tough, especially as you get older and aren’t putting in mega-yardage anymore. No matter how easy you take it out, the last 50 is going to feel like a ton of bricks, especially the first time you do it.

I’ve swum it 2X as a masters swimmmer. First time was a 2:30, second time was a 2:21, about a year apart. Based on that, I think the best way to prep for 2fly in competition is to do it in competition. The only way to know how much hurt you’re going to be in is to do it.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

I know you’re all about getting as much air as you can, ands you’re mostly right, but in fly there’s also a cost to lifting your head out of the water every stroke. If you were a lifelong “breathe 2” guy, then I’d stick with that or try a 2-1-2-1 pattern.

I found that the last 50 is tough to get your body back to horizontal after the breath, so the less you lift, the easier it is to maintain streamlining.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Based on that, I think the best way to prep for 2fly in competition is to do it in competition.//

Of course it is not an either or, but agree that besides training your ass of doing lots of fly, you need to actually do a bunch of races to get the real feel, and how to best attack it next time..

If you were a lifelong “breathe 2” guy, then I’d stick with that or try a 2-1-2-1 pattern.

Thats kind of what I'm doing now, having to force myself to break pattern. But I figure if Phelps and most every great flier out there now can breath every stroke in a 100, I certainly can at least try to get the rhythm down. Now that I fully understand how important air is as opposed to having perfect streamlines, and the fact I'm old and I just need a lot more air, it is worth it to me to try and make the change. So many have come my way since I was a competitive swimmer, this is just one more the way I look at it...

I’m just giving you my perspective as a guy who was a breathe 2 guy who’s made the switch to breathing every stroke. Play around with it, but I’m betting that you’d be fastest over the 200 with a 2-1-2.

It’s not about having perfect streamlines, it’s about having any at all for that last 50.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly