What's the knock on Jack Weiss???

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RunFAR Racing Services
http://www.Run-far.com
Team Cambridge
Hilltop Bicycle Repair

Bet you voted for Ralph Nader too...........

Don't guess you read that long thread on Slowtwitch about the USAT election. So much for the informed American voter.

Bob Sigerson

"I guess my observation re JW's ties to the Dallas tri community were not totally unfounded."

i find the process distasteful of schlepping ballots out to races and setting up a voting table alongside the t-shirt pickup and chip validation, as if it were a necessary process.

among other races, this was done at the hawaiia ironman (not this past year, but the year before) on behalf of the RD of that race. the RD herself didn't do this, others did it for her, but the point was still made. you train your heart out, you make it to hawaii, you're there to pick up your registration materials, and you *may* have this nagging feeling that if you don't cast the right vote, you *may* have something bad happen to your bike in the transition area overnight, or find that you have a penalty.

of course this wouldn't have happened, but there's this little voice that wonders anyway. this is why i think it's fine for delegates to make their plea in person, but i really find smarmy at best that after you make that plea, you then pass out ballots and collect them after race registration/tri club meeting/whatever.

when i went to shreveport for nationals, you'd think that would be a safe zone. but no. there was a voting station for a candidate who was at the race, at the station.

mind you, if i ran for the board i'd do it to too, because there's no possible way to win unless you debase yourself in this fashion (this is one reason i don't run for the board).

frankly, i'm surprised lew got 80% of the vote totals of a career board member who owns his own race series, and who resides in the state which has the single largest block of voters *by far* among those states in the central region. it would be interesting to see how the results would differ if these sorts of voting tactics were not allowed.

i'm not alleging any wrongdoing, but don't you think there's something funny about:

1. "please vote for me, sir, at which point you can continue the process of registering for the race i own," and
2. the man who utters the phrase above can PERSONALLY take charge of mailing into USAT both those ballots cast for him AND those ballots cast at his race for his competitor.

we need a resolution that says candidates cannot touch ballots other than the single ballot they use to cast their own vote, either before or after these ballots are cast, whether for them or for their competitors.

having written all that, may i offer my congratulations to jack weiss for winning the election. as a man of honor i'm sure he agrees with my proposal above, and as the man who holds the record for introducing USAT resolutions i'm quite sure he's the person to offer the resolution i propose above.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Tell you the truth I really didn't care who ran or who won. It's not only Jack's ties to the Dallas area, but the whole SMW region which garnered his vote. Sounds like sour grapes to me.

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RunFAR Racing Services
http://www.Run-far.com
Team Cambridge
Hilltop Bicycle Repair

"Tell you the truth I really didn't care who ran or who won."

that's too bad.

"Sounds like sour grapes to me."

jack won fair and square (did i say he didn't win? if so, i take it back).

the general rule in the last 2 or 3 elections is that all those who win have to do things that candidates shouldn't have to do in a fair and honorable election process.

plus, voters have to endure a process that is distasteful. i wish that wasn't so.

don't you wish that wasn't so?

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

what really floored me about the election was the total votes cast: 3,344. USAT membership is 60 000 or so IIRC. Every one of those 60 000 got a postage-paid envelope for sending in the vote - took me about 2 min for the mechanics of voting, about 15min to decide who to vote for. I guess we get the governing body we deserve.. for all the whinging about USAT, I'd've thought a few more people might have bothered to vote.

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"It is a good feeling for old men who have begun to fear failure, any sort of failure, to set a schedule for exercise and stick to it. If an aging man can run a distance of three miles, for instance, he knows that whatever his other failures may be, he is not completely wasted away." Romain Gary, SI interview

Back in Aug/Sept, a local (Dallas) triathlete emailed to Weiss, Kidder and Burke and asked what they really stood for and wanted for accomplish. Weiss was the only one who replied. (Here's the old thread on the local tri website if interested

http://www.dallastrigeeks.org/Phorum/index.php?s=783f1eba95fd1a1a49d623b69a01c1fa&act=ST&f=2&t=575&hl=usat,and,election&st=0 )

I don't exactly agree w/ Weiss' view but I do appreciate his willingness to address issues.

PS. I do agree w/ Slowman's view that the voting process needs to be enhanced.

Dan,

As a CPA I was appalled that candidates were allowed to collect marked ballots, especially since these ballots could be reviewed by the person who collected them. The ballot that you could download came with prepaid postage so no need to collect them.

I wrote a e-mail to everyone I could find on the USAT site as well as the CPA firm who was counting the votes voicing my concerns. It was the responsibility of the CPA firm to administer controls on the election and they should have informed the board the the candidates should not have handled ballots. If the board insisted on allowing candidates to handle ballots then they should have included further controls such and a sealed envelope or a lock box for voters to deposit their ballots.

Steve Locke e-mailed me back that this is the way they have always done it and that everyone trusts each other. He also said that they plan to implement on-line voting next year.

With only 3,000-4,000 votes it only takes a bit of corruption to change the outcome of a close race.

I have also requested the USAT financials as well as other information but I am having a tough time getting them to send me the audit report.

Willy in Pacifica

Willy in Pacifica

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Willy in Pacifica

>>As a CPA I was appalled that candidates were allowed to collect marked ballots, especially since these ballots could be reviewed by the person who collected them. The ballot that you could download came with prepaid postage so no need to collect them.<<

I agree Willy. At some races in NorCal, one candidate continuously walked up and down the long line of athletes waiting to register, handing out ballots and pens and then collecting them, saying he'd mail them in. He was also telling people who to vote for in the "at-large" category. He did the same at the tri club meeting he came to.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

"At some races in NorCal, one candidate continuously walked up and down the long line of athletes waiting to register, handing out ballots and pens and then collecting them, saying he'd mail them in. He was also telling people who to vote for in the "at-large" category. He did the same at the tri club meeting he came to."

If we are referencing the same person, He/She was on my plane over to Hawaii doing the same "campaigning". Talk about a captive audience. If I could have jumped I would have but the fasten seat belt light was on...

Dave

I don't think it's sour grapes on anyone's part. My vote went to Bill Burke, who I have know for over 20 years, because we have never had representation from our area of the region, regionally or nationally. Bill is a high profile RD with high profile races but he deemed not to electioneer in the way described by Slowman. Neither did Lew Kidder.
I wish Mr. Weiss well and hope he represent his region in an honorable manner.

Bob Sigerson

>>If we are referencing the same person, He/She was on my plane over to Hawaii doing the same "campaigning". Talk about a captive audience. If I could have jumped I would have but the fasten seat belt light was on...<<

We are. He was on my flight back from Kona doing the same thing. Luckily I was across the aisle from Whit Raymond, so we ignored him.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

"It was the responsibility of the CPA firm to administer controls on the election..."

thing is, to my recollection, this is the first election (maybe the second) in which there has been a CPA administering the results. prior to the last year or two, if i'm not mistaken, the office tallied the results. i raised hell about that, and now a CPA firm does it. so there's movement in the right direction.

but yes, i agree with you. if i was the auditor charged with the job of running a proper and fair election, i'd refuse to do it unless it was done properly all the way through. but i'm not an expert, so what do i know?

"it's the way we've always done it," isn't an appropriate outlook. only 5 years ago USAT had 17,000 annual members. now it has 50,000, and a LOT of money it didn't have before, and so forth. when you grow, you can't do things the way you used to do them. and it isn't about trusting people. it's about preserving both the appearance and the reality of professionalism, propriety and fairness.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

In the corporate world shareholders vote for Board members who, along with officers, then hire the CPA firm who is responsible for looking out for the shareholders interest. That is why they are to be independent of any company they audit.

In the USAT case thay are supposed to be the Members representatives not the Boards.

They also audit the books to be sure everything is shown fairly on the financials. Again, this is so Shareholders/Members can rest assured that the books are in order by having an independent set of eyes look at everything.

But it seems like the board is telling the CPA firm how things are going to happen rather than the other way around. Even if everything is as it should be the CPA firm is supposed to be above reproach by putting every control in place so no one questions the valiidty of the election or the financials. This did not happen in this election.

If the same firm is in charge of the financial audit how much trust can we put in them? I have asked Bill at USAT for various paperwork that the USAT is required to give me. Along with my request I have asked for the audited financials but he has e-mailed me back that the USAT has a restricted ploicy about who they distribute the audit report to.

Auditors audit financials then give their opinion on them. They can give a unqualifed (good) opinion or a qualified (good? not good?). Unless you can read their opinion you will not know what their opinion is. Plus the audit report will come with "Notes to the Financials" which may explain things or give greater details then the numbers can show on their own.

So if the members are those that are supposed to be protected by an audit why can I not get a copy of the audit report or who fits in their restricted policy?

Willy in Pacifica

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Willy in Pacifica

I don't know what the law in California requires for this type of entity, but I personally favor full disclosure in situations of this nature, no matter what a fine reading of the law might be. Some will argue "competitive disadvantage" . . . but since USAT is a statutory monopoly, that line of reasoning does not carry its own weight. IMO, USAT should become much more open, promptly publishing (on the website & in the newsletter) at a minimum full minutes of all meetings and all financial statements.

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Lew

Lew,

They do post the minutes on the USAT web site. Unfortunatly it only shows the minutes for May-June of 2002.

Willy in Pacifica

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Willy in Pacifica