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It's not only Canyon stuff that breaks in pro racing
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https://www.cyclingweekly.com/...at-paris-nice-492790

George Bennett's helmet does too 😱

On a serious note... sports like rugby are finally starting to take note of head injuries (or, if you're a cynic, at least give the pretence that they are).
What does cycling need to do ?
I know it's tricky. Riders don't always now what is best for them. But unlike a team sport you can't just drop another rider in off the substitutes bench for 10 minutes, mid race.
In other forms of cycling (particularly free ride and downhill) head injury and long term brain damage is at least being discussed.
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Re: It's not only Canyon stuff that breaks in pro racing [BobAjobb] [ In reply to ]
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I'm a fan of Jumbo-Visma in general, but the comments by the DS rub me the wrong way,

"There was a doctor who was there before us but I don’t know if the concussion protocol was followed or not. I’m not a doctor, the race doctor gave the sign so he could continue, don’t ask me."

"Don't ask me?" He's the guy who makes the ultimate call on the well-being of his riders. And he was right there. Don't try to pawn off all responsibility on the race doctor. He should at least own his own decision to let George continue. Because he could have said, "No, you're done, George," even with the Dr. giving a thumbs-up.
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Re: It's not only Canyon stuff that breaks in pro racing [BobAjobb] [ In reply to ]
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Of course its a Lazer helmet... I had a Z1 and I ended up losing some teeth in part due to the helmet snapping in two. Only going 35 km/h... I've unfortunately tested giros (78km/h) and poc (50+) and they did their job just fine. I'll never put my trust into their helmets.

As for what to do about crashes... For one-day races, they should just take the loss and wait for the next race with signs of significant helmet damage. For a stage race, maybe they could give them the same time as the group they were in, if the rider needed a more extensive check with a doctor? Sort of like the 3km to go rule. You might need to pair that with allowing them to finish outside the time limit. Unfortunately, I can see this system being abused to give riders a free "rest day".
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Re: It's not only Canyon stuff that breaks in pro racing [rowleycd] [ In reply to ]
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rowleycd wrote:
As for what to do about crashes... For one-day races, they should just take the loss and wait for the next race with signs of significant helmet damage. For a stage race, maybe they could give them the same time as the group they were in, if the rider needed a more extensive check with a doctor? Sort of like the 3km to go rule. You might need to pair that with allowing them to finish outside the time limit. Unfortunately, I can see this system being abused to give riders a free "rest day".

Interesting idea.

While "diving" is definitely an issue in soccer, most cyclists pride themselves on being "hard" and getting back on the bike. And anyway, there is too much risk that a cycling dive might not go as planned for this to be deliberate tactic (although some DS's may exploit this AFTER a crash has happened).
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Re: It's not only Canyon stuff that breaks in pro racing [rowleycd] [ In reply to ]
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Lazar are abnormally heavy too I have tried 2 and sent them back straight away. Maybe I’m a delicate flower but it was quite noticeable
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Re: It's not only Canyon stuff that breaks in pro racing [rowleycd] [ In reply to ]
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rowleycd wrote:
Of course its a Lazer helmet... I had a Z1 and I ended up losing some teeth in part due to the helmet snapping in two. Only going 35 km/h... I've unfortunately tested giros (78km/h) and poc (50+) and they did their job just fine. I'll never put my trust into their helmets.

Interesting. Laser helmets (at least the MIPS ones) have scored as the best helmets in the Virginia Tech helmet ratings

Matt
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Re: It's not only Canyon stuff that breaks in pro racing [IamSpartacus] [ In reply to ]
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I can vouche for KASK Utopia helmets. It saved my life, non-MIPS, in 2019 at US Nationals in Miami in a wreck. It did it's job.
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Re: It's not only Canyon stuff that breaks in pro racing [Chemist] [ In reply to ]
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They have an interesting testing protocol, which has things to keep in mind when extrapolating to real world scenarios. One immediate problem is that the highest test velocity is 7.3m/s (~25 km/h). Now that is combined x and y vectors, and we can be arguments as to what a realistic y-vector you might see in the real world when the x-vector would likely be much higher for road cycling. I imagine that if something happens to abruptly stop your front wheel and you go spinning around the front wheel into the ground, you will translate some of that x-vector into real speed right into the ground (think about swinging a golf club, the head of it moves real quick as it traverses the circle).

I also don't understand how the 45 degree platform translates to the real world. I think it does well for what they are wanting to look at (rotational effects that may lead to concussions). But a helmet can only work if it stays together, and these tests seem to be assuming that you aren't generating a large enough force for the helmet to fail completely. Given that they rotate the helmet to drop it from many different angles, I would be interested to see how the helmets fair with just a flat impact at higher speeds. It might not matter too much depending on how secure the helmet is on their contraption.
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Re: It's not only Canyon stuff that breaks in pro racing [trail] [ In reply to ]
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I take an different approach....*IF* the doctor did his job and followed protocols and allows an rider to continue then I would think that's a process we want. Now can an doctor do an "protocol procedure" in that short of time and it actually be meaningful, that is probaly my biggest concern. Like there's no way you crash your head, have a doctor do a thorough field test and you then suddenly catch back up to the group in short amount of time. I would think it would be a 5-10 min "test protocol" but then of course "real world" implications occur and the rider is rushing the doctor, the mechanic is pushing the rider to get his new helmet and go, the DS is standing there wanting to ge the rider going; so suddenly does the protocols get thrown out the window?

That would be more immediate question....did the protocol actually get followed?

If it didn't the UCI/doctors have some explaining to do.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: It's not only Canyon stuff that breaks in pro racing [Rocky M] [ In reply to ]
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Rocky M wrote:
I can vouche for KASK Utopia helmets. It saved my life, non-MIPS, in 2019 at US Nationals in Miami in a wreck. It did it's job.

I crashed and totaled a Utopia. Not even a headache.
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Re: It's not only Canyon stuff that breaks in pro racing [Chemist] [ In reply to ]
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Chemist wrote:
Interesting. Laser helmets (at least the MIPS ones) have scored as the best helmets in the Virginia Tech helmet ratings

I've also never fully understood if a helmet breaking in a crash is evidence of failure or just fine. Have heard lots of competing theories.
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Re: It's not only Canyon stuff that breaks in pro racing [trail] [ In reply to ]
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Me personally I'm in the "i dont give a fuck if it breaks into 1000 pieces" if there is no *apparent* immediate *real* brain damage....IE if a person can get back up immediately after a crash, sure he may have a concussion but he isn't in some vegetative state from the crash; the helmet did it's job.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: It's not only Canyon stuff that breaks in pro racing [trail] [ In reply to ]
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That was kind of what I was thinking as well. A comparison I was thinking about is cars. Some cars when they crash crumple up really easy (like my old 90's civic) and others don't (like old cadilacs). After a crash the cadilac might only have a scratch while the civic has it's hood pushed in. But by having the hood crumpling it maybe takes impact off me as the driver?

No idea what the correct answer is. But what I do know is my current helmet is a Lazer which the above poster said breaks easier and the model is the Genesis which is one of the worse scoring models on the Virgina Tech test. As such I am in the market for a new helmet.

Matt
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Re: It's not only Canyon stuff that breaks in pro racing [Chemist] [ In reply to ]
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I don't pretend to know the finer points of each helmet's ability to reduce linear acceleration and rotational velocity. What I do know when finally watching last night is the when George stood up he sure looked wobbly. And as he peered yonder, he certainly saw double Team Car coming at him.

I appreciate racers want to race. But I was disappointed to see his "Concussion Protocol" appeared to be a quick Yes/No as they were buckling his new helmet and mounting him on the bike. As discussed in other posts, if rider safety is the theme of 2021, this looks like an opportunity for evaluation.
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Re: It's not only Canyon stuff that breaks in pro racing [WannaB] [ In reply to ]
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