that is more like your LT + 10-15 bpm, or your V02max - 5-10bpm. V02max is what you get at 5-6minutes of all out effort, LT is more like 45min to 1hr effort. So you were between but closer to V02.

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Marty Gaal, CSCS
One Step Beyond Coaching
Triangle Open Water Swim Series | Old School Aquathon Series
Powerstroke® Freestyle Technique DVD

216 is about as high as you can go. I remember I could hit 207 back in my 20's and now 185 is the limit. My daughter is 12 and she can do some 198's, oh to be young again. Keep hammering!!

if there were other guys in the race w/ Polars on, they could've been interfering with your monitor.

but really, i don't think those numbers are crazy. your 'average' was probably a bit skewed by the last 500m of the race, but the high 190's is do-able for someone your age over that distance.

for what it's worth, that 220-your age formula seems a bit unreliable. at best it's a rough guide for the general population, but it never seems hard and fast for highly trained athletes. i'm 23 and routinely push my max into the 200's during track workouts.

i say keep the hammer down. as the others have said, if you want your LT, try running a good 45mins tempo. or go back to that lab.

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http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

No one else was running with a polar (there were only 2 other guys). I have the polar set to beep at 200, and it only started beeping around around the 2-2.5k mark.

The concept of lactate threshold is a concept that should be applied only to junior-adult athletes, i.e. >18yo. Younger athletes don't accumulate lactid acid as much as older athletes, and when tested for LT with lactate tests it is hard to see a shift in the lactate curve.

So at your age you're better off working your strenght(hill running) and aerobic endurance, with a little VO2Max sprinkled in.

At that age you should be focusing on swimming, can you swim under 17:30 for 1500m? Under 4:30 for 400m? Those should be your goals right now, work on your running more when you've matured more.



Paulo

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to hell i can =(

My goal for next April is going under 5:00 for 400, buts I have a long way to go (i'm currently at around 5:40).

Is this possible? Any tips?

It is very possible to go under 5:40 in April. Have you talked to your swimming coach about your goal? What kind of weekly mileage are you doing in the pool now?

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"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com

Shaving off 40 seconds? That's possible?

Right now we're in a taper, but we usually do around 3-4k per practice, 3 times per week, then another easy swim (which turns into another full workout when we're building) on fridays.

Last year I was with a different team, and we only had time to swim 3 times per week, so our coach had us doing 8-10k per pratice during the base building period. That year I improved something like 40 seconds per 400. This year I'm with a different team, and we swim what I said in the above paragraph. In the 4 months I've been here I've shaved off 20 seconds for a 400, so maybe the mega mileage wasn't working for me.

It's possible but very difficult on the kind of mileage you're doing. You would see some real improvements if you could get into a serious swim team and swim 3-5k, 6-8 times a week.

Also 8-10k 3x a week is not mega-mileage, it's mega stupidity...

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"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com

meh I guess i'll have to start swimming a lot more. i just don't see how i can squeeze those pratices in =\

monday - run

tuesday - swim

wednsday - run

thursday - trainer + swim

friday -swim

saturday - long bike + short run

sunday - swim



That totals to around 120k bike, 30k run, and 12k swim

so you're saying i need to bring my swim up to 20k+?

What I'm saying is that you're only 15, you should look at your carreer as an athlete with a long range perspective. For example you should focus on your swimming for the next 1-2 years, then concentrate on your running and only after on your cycling.

At 15, there's nothing wrong in only swimming with 1-2 runs and 0-1 rides a week.

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"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com

Smartasscoach,

I don't want to butt in, but it seems to me that we should be asking freestyle what his goals *are*, not telling him what his goals *should be*. Telling him not to worry so much about the run and bike and concentrate on his swimming is good advice for many athletes. But what if Freestyle's goal is to qualify for the olympics in 2008? Should he still cut down on his running? Or what if his goal is to win the state 10k championship before he graduates? Or be the world's youngest domestique? Or get into Princeton as a merit scholar?

Point is, Freestyle has his reasons for joining the swim team and the track team and for doing tris in the first place. All we can do is help him be reasonable about his goals and show him what he needs to do to achieve them. The rest is up to him.

Lee

Lee,



You're absolutly right, it's all about the athlete's goals.

But most young athletes don't have the ability to think of their athletic carreer in the long range, and that's one of the areas a coach can help. I only tried to help him out with that. He seems to be a pretty good runner for his age and is at a decisive age to improve his swimming, I wanted him to know that and keep things in perspective.

I coach two athletes that wished that at 15 someone had told them to get in the pool and forget about the rest for a couple of years. I was thinking of them when I was talking to freestyle.



Paulo

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"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com

wow, a few posts on here are very misleading. To say that lactate accumulates less in athletes younger than 18 and the HR formulas used to determine thresholds. I find that to be very inaccurate statements.

My advice would be to look into a well known qualified Sport Science Center to determine the zones for you. No guesstimated formulas are accurate and even if they are they become inaccurate once you train them.

Paul

Hey freestyle,
Yes, getting under 5:00 for 400 is definitely possible, but you'll need to up the metres and you'll need to be thinking of technique for every one of those metres that you swim. The good news is that once you get the technique sorted it's with you for life and you won't need to do the same amount of metres to maintain it.

For example, I used to be a competitive swimmer and could swim 400m in 4:13, even though that was not my event. I just got back in the pool recently after 5 years of not swimming and can still do 400m in 5:50 or so. I'll be under 5:00 in a month or two if I keep swimming regularly.

I've been working on my technique for a long time, and it's getting good. I feel a whole lot smoother in the water, and just yesterday we had 8x100 with 15 secs rest, and I maintained 1:20 or below for all of them.

My biggest question though was about your palm when you enter the water. I know it's suppose to be slightly angled, but I'm not sure which way. My previous coach said the thumb should be down, and my new coach said pinky.

I don't know which one to believe, because the pinky down seems to work pretty good for me, but if I improve more with the other way I'll be happy to try it.

So which is it?

Personally I've always gone thumb first.

The first thing your hand does when it enters the water is the 'catch' which is a slight outward movement. You therefore want the palm of your hand to be facing in this direction, hence your thumb enters first.

That's a good average for the 8*100s. Keep working on your technique, without sacrificing speed. Also, the next time you do 8*100, try and average 1:19. It's only one second, so you can convince yourself you can do it. However, in April all those seconds will have added up and you'll be averaging 1:12 or something, then 5:00 is easy!

Although I agree with you that HR formulas to determine LT are very misleading, my personal experience with coaching young athletes leads me to the conclusion I stated. So could you please elaborate on your comment? Thanks!

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"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com

Thumb first is more "classic", pinky first is more "modern".

Now that the s-shaped stroke disapeared, after selling us the idea for the past 30 years or so, what is important, and always was btw, is the way the elbow stays up during the stroke. If you see a video of Ian Thorpe swimming you'll know what I mean. A pinky first entry allows you to get to that high-elbow position faster. A good example of a swimmer with a pinky first entry is PvdH.

A bunch of swimming videos can be found here http://www.wa.swimming.org.au/coaching/videos/



Paulo

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