They cost that much 'cuz people are willing to pay that much. Supply and demand.

The prices folks are willing to pay for gadgets that offer only marginal improvements -- if any at all -- are just incredible. For example, is a Dura-Ace rear derailleur REALLY so much better than a 105 that it's three times the price? Do carbon-fiber aerobars work that much better than aluminum tubing? Of course not -- but enough people seem to think so and are willing to pay the price.

There is a very positive side to this situation. When I started cycling in the mid-80s, $1,500 used to buy you some of the really top end bikes. Now $1,500 is barely entry level for a lot of people, however, that $1,500 “entry-level” bike is still better than the top-end bike back in the 80s. So really there is nothing to complain about—unless having the newest cool thing is important to you. From a performance standpoint, you can still buy a darn fast bike for a reasonable amount of money. People who pay more than two grand are just doing it to be chic.



Chad

Well, there are a disproportionally high number of expensive bikes out there and vendors are ignoring the economic pressures on discretionary income at their peril. The number of 3,500 carbon Ultegra bikes at Interbike was absurd.

Only one manufacturer, Felt, was showing a mid $2000's Dura-Ace equipped tri bike (the new S22) with a carbon fork, seatpost and rear stay.

Felt is about the only ones who truly "Get It" in terms of where the market is headed. The number of $3000+ super bikes is far to high for the market with a lot of product undeliverable anyway. The industry would do well to stop wasting its time north of $3000. There are already enough strong players in that price category such as the P3C.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Tom

As always, interesting comments.

1. The market for high end everything( cars, stereos, real-estate, TV's stc . .) continues to be growing much faster than everything else these days. For some reason the rich truely seem to be getting richer!

2. Another poster mentioned the trickling down of technology and performance - this has been going on for some time now and the mid priced bikes of today( say $2,000 or a bit less) are more or less the same bikes that were being ridden in the Tour de France and by top riders at Ironman Hawaii just 5 - 6 years ago.

3. Historically, the bike market has been slow to react to trends. Many companies keep blundering on doing things that really don't match up with what is going on out in the consumer marketplace.

4. If a new bike is not in the cards, I say look at the used market. If ebay is any barometer of what's available out there, there is a great choice of mid to high end bikes that are quite a bit less than what you would pay at retail for a brand new one.

Fleck

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

New stuff is crazy expensive. But if you know what you want/need (esp. the right size frame!) and are patient, you can build a killer bike for cheap. I bought a Kestrel 500sci frame with major cosmetic dings, sanded it myself, had a friend paint it, Kestrel sent me new decals, it looks new. I found a guy on the 'Net who just had to have DA 10 speed so I bought his 9 speed group, inc. FSA Team issue carbon cranks, for a song. Kestrel carbon drops and upgraded threadless aero fork, Profile carbon clip-on aeros, Corima carbon seatpost (I've got a really bad neck so love that carbon), older but stealth fast Zipp 500 wheels to race on, and Velocity Deep V to train on, and a near-new Profile Tri saddle that somebody didn't like, all for well under $1000 total. Last year I built up a used Kestrel Airfoil in a similar way but with Profile carbon integrated aerobars, couldn't ride it because of my neck, and doubled my money on ebay. So this bike ended up being free!

brother bonk

oh yeah - I paid retail for the bar tape and computer mount...

1. The market for high end everything( cars, stereos, real-estate, TV's stc . .) continues to be growing much faster than everything else these days. For some reason the rich truely seem to be getting richer!

I would guess middle class folks are the driving force behind the high end market. The number of expensive bikes I see at ironman and various century rides tells me that people are prepared to "treat" themselves at the expense of future savings. Come look at my garage for example.

People ask questions on this forum continually about which >$3000 bike to get, I don't think we're all richer. Just prepared to spend more to stroke our egos.

In a survey that I saw it said the average reader of Triathlete magazine had a household income of over US$150,000. That would explain why you see so many expensive bikes at races. Last week I did the Long Beach Triathlon, which is suppose to be a beginner's race and for the first time this season I saw more road bikes that tri-bikes at an event.

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Pasadena Tri Club

Yeah, there's some crazy expensive stuff out there, but at the same time, you can find some incredible deals on some very nice bikes in the $1500 range, particularly if you don't mind riding an aluminum frame or even an offbrand carbon frame.

RP

Now $1,500 is barely entry level for a lot of people, however, that $1,500 “entry-level” bike is still better than the top-end bike back in the 80s.

Define "better".....

Define "better".....

Ok,

In 1985-- you used down-tube shifters, now you have STI, Ergo, take your pick.

--your choice in frame materials was chrome-moly or chrome-moly. Aluminum was just coming on from Vitus, Trek, Cannondale, but it was not cheap. Carbon fibre was practically unheard of, except for a few pros who had special frames.

Wheels were heavier. In fact, bikes in general were heavier.

Cycling cleats were not as comfortable.

No clipless pedals in '85 unless you were Bernard Hinault.

Shifting was not as smooth.

Seven-speed freewheels were the norm. That means you had big jumps from cog to cog.

Tire quality as gone up, at least in terms of wear and puncture resistence.

Modern brakes are certainly more powerful than anything in '85.

Helmets were buckets and goofy looking.

The list goes on.

Chad

It's sort of like the gas prices... if people will pay it the price will stay there because it's what the market will bear.

All good points.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

You're giving bike industry WAY too much credit. NO ONE, from the manufacturing end to the retail end, adjusts prices based on demand--they use a fixed margin and price accordingly. The margin may vary 2-3%, but that's about it.
Big bike companies (Trek, Giant, etc) operate on a 22-25% on bikes, smaller companies, more, simply because of economies of scale.
Retailers shoot for 40%, less on high-end--because that's what's needed for Tom D to turn his lights on in the morning.
Demand may infuence what price points a dealer may carry, or a bike company may produce, but that's about it.

"n a survey that I saw it said the average reader of Triathlete magazine had a household income of over US$150,000."

Why do I have to be BOP at everything?

~Matt

And even more to the Felt point, I have noticed at our local tris here in UT that there are 5 F70/80/90s to every S22/S25. 5 S32s for every B2. They are not being ridden by the podium, but by the pack.

They have great affordable bikes for the entry level triathlete/road rider.

I picked my S25 up on clearance last fall and that was $1,300 for everything that could have possibly been the bikes fault, I will have to shoulder the blame for anything speed related going forward.

Cannondale R1000 was my purchase this summer and got that for $1,500 from a shop that couldn't sell it (nice to ride a 60). I have had it for a few k miles now and can't think of anything that I NEED to upgrade. Which is killing me! I even like the dern saddle (Poggio).

[reply]Only one manufacturer, Felt, was showing a mid $2000's Dura-Ace equipped tri bike (the new S22) with a carbon fork, seatpost and rear stay.
[/reply]

Well, we don't have carbon stays because we think they are detrimental, but a DuraAce Dual is $1900 and a DuraAce P2 SL is $2500. In general prices seem to be going up, just like the prices of everything else in this world. It's called inflation. On top of that, of course with a lot of frames now being carbon the average price of bikes may be moving up. but if you look apples to apples, prices for at least Cervelo have not gone up at all in the past several years. Take a Soloist Team, that frameset used to cost $1500 and now it costs $1200. Or a P2 SL, also $1200. A P3 SL was $3600 and now the P2C will be $3600.

And don't forget you are feeling the troubles in Motortown, there are plenty of areas in the US where people are shelling out $3000+ for a bike. for example, 22% of Bicycling readers intend to buy a bike that is $3000+, that's an enormous group.

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Gerard Vroomen
3T.bike
OPEN cycle

Did Felt go with Carbon Stay's this year on the S22?

"And don't forget you are feeling the troubles in Motortown,"

Good point, it's all relative. I can't imagine paying 300K for a 1200'ish sq ft home either, but some people are doing it. If they can afford that kinda dough for a house 3K for bike, ain't no thing.

~Matt

I got the S22 and a friend got the S32, at times I wish I would have saved my cash and got the S32. Not a whole lot of difference there, especially as freakin' slow as I am.

~Matt

As an example of just such an ebay deal, I just picked up a 2003 P3 for $1900 very nicely equipped. Best price I could find for a discounted 2004 was almost a $1000 more (after tax) at the 2 local Cervelo dealers. As much as I would like to support them, the ebay deal was just too good to pass up.

I sold the S25 to get the Cannondale (almost even swap), my plan now is to get a used 32 and some race wheels that I could use on both bikes, funny how few of the 32s you see on Ebay.

I certainly agree there have been changed...but that doesn't mean better in my definition.

The avg bikes times of nearly all the pro circuit and/or triathlon hasn't really changed much over the past 15 years.....

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

I agree with you on the wheels. I have a set of tubular Mavic Mach 2CD wheels that are very light. In fact, I rode these wheels to a 5:00 flat bike split at IMC in 1992. Bomb-proof to. I used to pound the crap out of these things in races and they are still good to go. I think I may get some new tires for them and put them back into service.

Fleck

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog