I am giving you the chance of thinking about starting this thread really hard.

Do you really want to?

You can delete your post, I can delete my post, and this never happened, the thread never existed...

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I see where you're coming from. Personally, I don't do flip turns because when I try them I inhale the pool into my lungs and that isn't conducive to maintaining good swim technique. :)

so poster number 1 should delete his message and just do a search button before getting fried.

paulo will delete his out of generosity.

and the guy inhaling the pool should delete his for other (obvious) reasons. ;)

I only do flip turns so that I can swim with people (Masters) faster than me. I do this so that I can get faster.

If I wasn't interested in swimming faster, then I would swim alone with a big bag of toys and wouldn't worry about doing flip turns. I would wear a music device and would also chat with other triathletes as much as possible while in the pool. And I would never worry about what other strokes can teach me about mass moving through water more efficiently. I would just swim alone and do free all the time and expect to get faster by doing that one thing over and over and over.

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Sounds good. Carry on.

We can still walk away from this like nothing happened!!!

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When you do an open turn don't you get a really big breath of air? You don't do that when you're swimming open water either. And in either case you're still pushing off the wall, so does it really make a difference?

Beyond that, this is one of those instances where you're worrying about a detail that MIGHT account for something like .0001% of your performance.

Just flip slightly early so that your toes just graze the wall and you can't actually push off the wall.

You should also swim with your eyes closed so you don't get the benefit of the line on the bottom of the pool or the lane lines. You should only open your eyes when you sight.

Following these two key guidelines will not only make you a better swimmer, it will also make you extremely popular with the people in your lane line.

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I am giving you the chance of thinking about starting this thread really hard.

Do you really want to?

You can delete your post, I can delete my post, and this never happened, the thread never existed...



All that's old is new again.

Bernie

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"Slowbern has always made astute observations."-Casey 03/10/2009
2013-2014 Detroit Lions---13-3 until proved otherwise.

You have some good points. Thank you.

Let me be more specific about my concern: If I swim in a 25 yard pool and I do flip turns at both ends, I might cut out 10 to 15 yards of swimming. If I don't do a flip turn, I cut probably 4 yards of swimming at most.

You could also dolphin the entire way back across the pool after your turn...but you don't.
It's not as if you lack control over when you surface and return to the stroke.

if you swim for an hour, which method gets you more time swimming at pace?

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You didn't heed my advice, so fine... I'll start it.

You're not a real swimmer until you flip-turn. How do you spot the triathlete in the pool? He/she wears a wrist watch, always has a water bottle on deck and does open turns.

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Well then yay for me since I don't have any need to be considered "a real swimmer."

Fook...I'm just trying not to drown. I really don't give a cr@p what others think.

;^)

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you forgot about the jammers and how they jump into the pool with a pull buoy already in place.

Great question. To be honest, I don't know. If I don't do flip turns, I have to accelerate and de-accelerate more. If I do flip turns, I spend less time swimming.

Don't forget that AT LEAST 95% of swimming is done with paddles.

Who cares if you are a real swimmer or not. When is the last time a real swimmer won the Ironman again? It is a triathlon, you know swim, bike, run - It is the person that is best at those 3 disciplines that wins. We are not swimmers, we are not bikers, we are not runners... we are triathletes.

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Last June, when Andy Potts won IMCDA. Next question!

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The real Ironman....

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Okay it may be late and I may have had too many orange sodas but I feel like I'm taking freaking crazy pills here.

Really? Really? We're going to have a serious debate on whether it's better to do flipturns? Do it, don't do it..it doesn't matter! Just swim hard and swim often.

Triathletes, by and large, do a lot of really dumb things when it comes to swimming. And, by and large, they try to rationalize it by saying something like "Haha, it's a good thing I'm a triathlete otherwise these dumbass things I'm doing would be really stupid." It's ridiculous. The vast majority of triathletes would be better swimmers if they would cut out the tri-toys, the get-fast-quick schemes and all of the other gimmicks.

So swim an extra 100 yards and you've covered it. I assume your issue is pushing off the wall, not really flip turns, since you talk about time.

Seriously. You're right, you don't have walls in triathlons. Nor do you (I hope) stop every 25 yards, turn and start from a dead stop. The best way to practice OWS is to OWS. Most people can't do that, so we use the pool. So you're left with two options. Come to a complete stop, turn, and start from a dead stop, with your legs lower in the water, having to come up to speed to maintain proper form. Orrrrrrrrrrr, flip (or open, whatever), give a nice little push so your legs are higher in the water, as if you hadn't stopped swimming.

Your choice. When the pro triathletes stop doing flip turns, I'll consider it (I've been in a pool with Macca and Wingnut, both of whom flip turn (and kicked my ass)

"When is the last time a real swimmer won the Ironman again?"

I'd wager that it's been a while since someone who doesn't do flipturns won "the Ironman".

Actually, last November in Cozumel :)