I can say that for me, a lot of it depends on the 'relationship' I do or don't have with the shop.

It would be a super low move to go in, spend an hour or two talking about the intricacies of one group or another, then buying off Amazon and bringing it in for an install.

At the same time, I feel zero obligation to drive to my local shop and have them order me a group which is 15% cheaper online. That's particularly how I feel when the shop hasn't 'done' anything to help me out. I struggle with this with running shops. On one hand, I love running stores in principal and I'd hate for them to all just close. On the other, I can't justify $30 more for the same pair of shoes or $45 running tops when I already know what I want.

I see the store's role being that of an experienced, knowledgable friend. If you don't have the time / don't want to / aren't experienced enough to do the research yourself, bam, the store is there for you. Chock the extra money up to your time saved and their experience. If you already have all the knowledge (or more) I don't feel guilty buying elsewhere and having them install stuff I otherwise wouldn't (BBs, Cranks, full groups, stuff like that.) I wouldn't walk in with brake cables, that's for sure.

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JustinDoesTriathlon

Owner, FuelRodz Endurance.

Its not so much negotiating the price, but I do ask other stores to price match stuff on major retail websites. If a store won't price match for a video game/book/bike part/etc I won't buy from there.

Any idea why that dialogue isn't repeated at your bank, barber, and breakfast stop?

One of the things I used to ask when interviewing people looking for a role in product development was to bring me a cup of Starbucks coffee and give them $2.00.
The reaction on how to execute the request spoke a great deal to the understanding of sourcing.

-SD

I know I shopped around for my mortgage and use that strategy with contractors for my house. I think the Starbucks comparison is a bit off just because they sell their coffee. If I wanted cheaper coffee I would go somewhere else. I think where the comparison to Starbucks is good when talking about what a shop charges for labor. I trust the shop I go to so I won't go in and say well shop x charges this so charge me that price. But I will, and have, brought in stuff for them to adjust if I couldn't finish a job.

I have said it on here before but, like some have posted here already, a good bike shop is worth its weight in gold. But that bike shop that is that good won't care if you buy a part from them or the internet because they are smart and know that if you go in you are more likely to buy a water bottle, socks, tube, other random little bits (hell maybe a new bike) so they are getting that money back regardless. It is the bike shops that seem insecure about themselves that have trouble wrapping their head about that aspect that struggle.

Also, if the price difference wasn't so big I wouldn't care about spending the extra few dollars but when I can get a SRAM Force RD for $95 online but the shop is at $200 that is where I draw the line. But all of that said my brother is a mechanic so I go to the shop he used to work at so they don't seem to care about fixing my mistakes!

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Which is the bad form part? Buying parts from the least expensive source or giving the LBS an opportunity to provide marked up labour as a service? Presumably the LBS is run by adults and they can charge whatever they feel is fair for their employee’s time.

Bike retail isn't singled out. PC businesses have been fighting this their whole lives. Guess what, we were happy to make money on labor. Some of our favorite customers were people who bought online for the cheapest price and then brought it directly to us to install. Awesome, they saved $20 on the part and paid me $50 to install it. Half the time they gave us their 6 month old part that they were upgrading, so someone in the shop got a free upgrade. We offered discounted installs on parts purchased from us, so a lot of the time we made more if they bought it online.

Sorry, but stores should be happy to sell labor. It's probably some of higher margin stuff they sell.

Your analogy breaks apart because In-N-Out doesn't charge you directly for the labor to make the burger, and Starbucks doesn't charge you separately for brewing time, but there is a better analogy in the restaurant world, and it corkage fees, and it works out fine for them.

I would tell you I was looking for a job in product development, not a job being a personal assistant.

Do I get the product development job?

I'd go put the break room coffee in my old Starbuck cup and pocket the $2.

And SD, you might want to go to Starbucks once in a while, a tall coffee is $1.95.

Forging products is a very short term win in product development.

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

I do the opposite from the OP. I buy parts from the LBS (whenever available) and take them home to do my own wrenching.

I'm a firm believer in the idea that consumers vote with their dollars. I vote to keep local businesses viable.

Bad form? Bike shop? Is this Downton Abbey?

These are bike shop guys. Listen up- Jason, Josh, Jeremy, Justin and Bill (older guy) are all stoned or about to be. They do not care. And if they did, they’d forget soon anyway. Bring them a huge bag of Cheetos and you can pretty much have your way with them.

My first job was in a bike shop. No one was stoned. One of my best buddies owned a bike shop, neither he nor his employees were stoned.
If, in fact, guys at your shop were stoned why would you let them touch your bike? Could it be that you are a bike shop employee bigot? How do you feel about other service industry employees? How about immigrants? People with different color skin than you?

The biggest single problem with supplying your own parts is that typically most people cannot navigate the maze of product numbers to get the correct part for your bike.
Incorrect front derailleur.
Wrong length crank.
Wrong standard bottom bracket.
Wrong brake pads.
Cheap arse cables that will never work in a convoluted TT frame.
Wrong headset bearings.
Mismatched groups so that cable pulls do not work.
Narrow range components with wide rage cassettes or front gear combinations.
Wrong hangers.
Wrong wheel axle standards.

It goes on and on how many ways you can stuff up ordering or thinking you are getting a deal.

Then the mechanic has to check all components before fitting for correctness. Time.
Stop work and do another job if the wrong thing is supplied. Time.
Call customer to get permission to supply or order the correct part. Time.
Talk to customer and explain why that part cannot be used. Time

Time, time, time.
It's got to be charged to somebody and it's going to be you.

I don't make those kinds of mistakes. In any case, it seems to me shops would make money on them, so I don't understand your point very well. Are you advising the OP not to try to save money this way? Or are you saying this is why shops might be against people bringing in their own parts?

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http://www.jt10000.com/

Coming from 15 years in the industry as a mechanic I feel the need to weigh in on this. When everything goes just right on a tune it's really more like a 45 min job but more involved than you suggest. A good tune pulls the wheels, trues and verifies roundness, it checks the rim for wear or cracking, found plenty of these over time. The axle is given a twist, if it sounds a little dry the hub is lightly opened and grease added, if rough you may pay an extra 5-10 for new bearings and clean grease. All nuts and bolts are checked, no one torques anything except maybe stem bolts where carbon steerer or bars are included, otherwise tight by feel. Chain wear is checked, any creaking is checked if mentioned, and the frame is cleaned to check for cracks as much as to make it look pretty. If any shifting seems slow or sticky the cable is pulled and if there's a kink just the cable needs replacing, otherwise housing is done. Brake pads are checked and readjusted as needed. On a bad day with a problem tune it can be an hour and a half and the shop still makes nothing extra. 200 for just a tune would be rediculous, but 200 for tune, stretched chain, worn cassette, and 2 new tires is reasonable. What is on the final bill. Every shop I worked at also had a, if more then x dollars is going to be added, call customer first policy with x somewhere around 20.00.


Showing up with parts we didn't stock went from annoying in the 90s with nashbar and Dan's comp to normal. By the 00s it was becoming more common. Personally I always thought shop owners should have been willing to take half down and offer a deep discount on special orders since they were using the customers' money and not risking their own. Showing up with a standard chain and cables though will get you looks and deservedly so imho.
Recently I went to a couple shops to buy spokes and a couple hoops to build up as I like to frequent the shops, the experience was a headache. One shop wanted 140.00 for 72 spokes and wouldn't sell me the whole box, which had to be ordered, for a standard markup. Rims were 40 each which is a lot more than the 22.00 each on Amazon. I would have considered the rims if he'd been reasonable on the spokes. The other shop wouldn't sell me what I was asking for as I didn't bring in the hubs for them to measure. They missed the idea of giving the customer what they want but all sales are final on special orders that the customer screws up.

Sure, if parts are replaced as a part of the tune-up fee - that's cool, especially if chain+cassette+tires are swapped out. If it is just labor, then it is a different story.

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Next races on the schedule: none at the moment

I've got a pretty good relationship with my LBS, but still bring in my own parts occasionally. Usually parts bought from here. I'm also willing to spend an extra $20 on a cassette from him to support him because I need him to stick around. More or less, it depends on the amount of savings.

It's basically not only for a tune but to replace chain, thread in new cables, and the whole kit and kaboodle. That's why I want to save money where I can. If I can get away with only spending $150 that's significant to me. On that note given the mixed reaction I'm just going to say f'it be thankful they get this much money from me. I personally think the LBS industry needs to change with the times. Some no doubt have. But with internet shopping more of a service based industry might make more sense.

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I still lapped everyone on the couch!

Do you buy oils and filters and take into your mechanic for a tuneup?
I can service my own car but I go to a mechanic because I just don't want to crawl underneath, dispose of old oil or generally get dirty and risk a sore back from lying under a car.
I don't take him parts because I can get them cheaper than he supplies.

Most people cannot even perform the service work on their bike themselves, yet expect bike shops to give it away.
Bunch of whinging morons really.
Retail space for bike shops costs more than a garage out the back and that is the single biggest bill they pay.

What is really wanted is good value and sometimes bike shops just don't provide any more expertise than the guy next door.
That is the problem.
I charge a premium, but usually get handed more than my bill asks for because customers appreciate a job done properly.

So stop whinging about pricing and start complaining about the real problem, and that is lack of expertise.
Good mechanics are quick but not cheap.
But expensive per hour, quick and correct beats cheap per hour, slow and mistakes, for the final bill.

That is what really needs to happen.
We need less monkeys with hex keys.
We need to loose the fixed price service bullshite that never addresses the bike in hand.

Failure to grease things, open things up, inspect things or replace things as the manufacturer specifies leads to unexpected problems down the line that cost way more then prevention.
A huge percentage of my work is fixing fruckups and missed work.
$400 clusters and chainrings ruined for a missed chain change.
Suspension and frame components ruined because bearings were not changed.
Forks and shocks destroyed for lack of basic maintenance.
Headsets rusted because they have never been opened up, cleaned and greased.
Handlebars corroding to the point of breaking because nobody ever lifted the tape to check.
Wheels falling apart for lack of lubing nipples and balancing tensions.

Whinge about pricing all you want and waste your own time chasing the latest deals for parts, but that will not address the problem of crappy mechanics and the expense they cause.
Not always to blame the mechanics here as the way the workshop is run is dictated by the owner, the workshop manager and the service writer.
That whole chain of incompetence and quick buck servicing needs to end.

Reviving this thread because I need Slowtwitch's guidance regarding my recent experience with a local bike shop.

On a friend’s recommendation I went to a local bike shop due to multiple recent bad experience at another shop. My first visit I got a retul fit because I needed to update my fit and during the fit I told the fitter / bike shop owner that I planned on buying the Tri rig alpha X and breaks and would like to have him install them. After purchasing the Tri rig components I returned to the store to have them installed on my 2015 Cervelo P2. The bike shop told me they would need to completely recable the bike and would look to see if there was anything else that would need to fixed / maintained.

I get a call from one of the mechanics proposing to replace my mech group with sram red (I am using shimano 105) and that I needed a new wheel set since the nipples on the wheels were corroded. They would keep my current crank and chain ring on the bike. The wheels they were trying to sell me on where Chris King H Plus Son Archetype. They said they could do this all for $905 and that is a deal since it would typically cost $1400 but they would forgo labor. I said no I would rather stick with Shimano 105 rear derailleur since it is $40 online. The mech tried to quote the derailleur at $200 and tried to justify it with shop warranty. I pointed out that 5x the online price for warranty makes no sense. The mechanic dropped the argument and said he would get the components order.

I go into the shop today to pick up and the total price for the parts and labor are $700 below is the receipt with the cost broken out. Labor alone was $450, for 4.5 hours of work.

It feels like I got ripped off. I think to date the most expensive tab I have ever racked up at a bike shop was half that. I am fine with paying more for a quality job, which is why I went there in the first place, but did it really take a seasoned mechanic 4.5 hours to do this job?

My question, do you think this job took 4.5 hours to complete? If a shop is charging a premium for labor should they still be marking the components up 50%?


Picture of receipt

No way this takes 4.5 hours. I’m an ok mechanic and can do all this in an hour. Plus they taxed you on labor, which I don’t know if it’s kosher in your state.

They should’ve told you upfront what the cost would be.

Ridiculous bill!

That sounds ridiculous. As a other poster said, I’m not the best mechanic but I can recalls my in a few hours max. The hard part of the cabling is done if it was already cables through your old bars. Then they’d only have to put wire through the alphas then put the cabling on and it’s easy from there.

But it’s also shitty they didn’t give you a heads up on the total cost. My shops have always either told me upfront the cost or called when they figured what was up with the bike then told me so I was never surprised.

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Although a 100.00 an hour is not an outrageous rate, in Upstate NY it would be on the high side but Downstate closer to average, 4.5 hours to do that job seems excessive. A competent mechanic should be able to do that job in a couple hours worst case, installing a brake and running cables is a quick job that requires only readjusting everything since the bike is already set up. I'd say you got ripped off on labor by at least 2 hours based on the receipt.
I'd be more curious as to the deal with your wheels, that is a great price on a king wheelset, but just how bad are your wheels really? I've seen plenty of issues with galvanized spokes rusting to the nipples on cheap wheels and ti spokes bonding to aluminum nipples but most decent stainless spoke wheels with coated brass nipples don't usually have a huge corrosion issue unless you do a lot of winter or high salt area rides. Any time I've had a recalcitrant wheel that wasn't actually rusted or bonded a drop of prolink on the nipple at the spoke and the rim and a quick partial turn with the spoke wrench solved the issue. Are these just old and stuck or are they giving you the run around? That would speak volumes to just how much I'd trust them as a shop, especially if they were also trying to upsell you on sram red.