Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Re: Is foam rolling a myth? [trail] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
The 14 studies surveyed indicate some evidence it has at least a marginal effect on 1, 2. But nothing on 3).

------

Saying it improves muscle recovery but nothing on performance seems kinda wonky because most of the time performance is based purely on the adaptability of the body. So if you improve recovery, you therefore likely give yourself a better chance at performance.

I've also never used the foam roller with "performance" per say as the end goal. It's an "recovery" method to improve the body's adaptability which then translates into performance gains.

So all that is long winded to say if they are finding it to improve muscle recovery that's a big plus in my book. That is how you will get performance gains.

I'm not sure how you measure it directly with "performance" as I've not ever seen those used in a performance setting, it's always been post activity *most* of the time. So sometimes it's one of those they can make a study say anything they want.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
Quote Reply
Re: Is foam rolling a myth? [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
B_Doughtie wrote:
Saying it improves muscle recovery but nothing on performance seems kinda wonky because most of the time performance is based purely on the adaptability of the body. So if you improve recovery, you therefore likely give yourself a better chance at performance.

That's correct. The studies were mostly very cursory, and narrowly defined. They didn't attempt to track the effect on long-term adaptation, like you're talking about. Mostly the acute response, using questionnaires rather than objective biomarkers, etc.

The jury is way, way out there, like the New Horizons probe. Just pointing this survey paper out because it's what there is.
Quote Reply
Re: Is foam rolling a myth? [trail] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
It's a good paper, I'm actually reading the entire thing now. It looks like only 3 studies actually tested "performance".

So I get they are testing for the actual performance aspects of foam rolling, I just don't think it's an activity geared towards direct "performance" measurably benefits. I don't know a coach in multisport field that tells athletes to foam roll and then do a activity, it's pretty much the direct opposite.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
Quote Reply
Re: Is foam rolling a myth? [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
lacticturkey wrote:
😂I lol'd, well done

Yep, well executed.

29 years and counting
Quote Reply
Re: Is foam rolling a myth? [cloy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
cloy wrote:
Just got back from my sports chiropractor's office for some IT band issues. After he did some dry needling and graston therapy, I asked where I should roll at home to help increase my hip mobility. He said in absolutely no way should I be rolling out and that a lot of the studies coming out now are showing that it's ineffective. He's incredibly knowledgeable and very skilled, but this took me back. Thoughts?

Foam Rolling isn't a myth because it is a fact people foam roll. King Arthur and Robin Hood stories are myths because there is no reliable evidence the stories are based on historical fact. It isn't a myth that many triathletes are gullible.

Chiropractice, and Graston therapy are at best pseudoscience.

Foam Rolling is an effective wall painting technique. I've found it faster than using a brush.
Quote Reply
Re: Is foam rolling a myth? [PTinAZ] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
PTinAZ wrote:
cloy wrote:
Just got back from my sports chiropractor's office for some IT band issues. After he did some dry needling and graston therapy, I asked where I should roll at home to help increase my hip mobility. He said in absolutely no way should I be rolling out and that a lot of the studies coming out now are showing that it's ineffective. He's incredibly knowledgeable and very skilled, but this took me back. Thoughts?


Mechanism on why it "helps" is a bit unclear, but most evidence/theory points to it reducing the perception of "tightness" neurologically (to put it in layman's terms).

Most experts agree is doesn't "break up" scar tissue or really do anything mechanically to soft tissue.

It's not really a tool to treat injured tissue either. But boy, I sure do have patients walk in my office who roll the hell out of themselves. In the back of my mind I usually think...dang, you should spend that 30 minutes and go run or swim a bit more! :-) Just yesterday, 23yr old trail runner who came into my office had 3-4 bruises all along her lateral thigh...from you guessed it...."rolling out her IT band" . If anything, this set her recovery back!

Is it a horrible tool?...I wouldn't say that...is it this amazing, self treatment tool that can fix or help anything? (which seems to be the perception to some)...no. I usually end up telling folks .."if you think it's REALLY helping you, then use it a little"...but honestly, I end up telling folks they are doing it too much or to chill out with the roller as we discuss where to spend their time recovering.





^^ This dude gets it


Brian PT

Brian Coughlan:Physiotherapist:innovationphysio.com:HackTriathlete
Quote Reply
Re: Is foam rolling a myth? [cloy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
He said in absolutely no way should I be rolling out and that a lot of the studies coming out now are showing that it's ineffective. He's incredibly knowledgeable and very skilled, but this took me back. Thoughts?

N=1

I have a wonky left knee - long back story.

I only cycle these days. When I ramp up volume and or intensity, my left knee can get kind of achy. When I roll out the left IT band and side of my leg, with a Trigger Point roller, the achy-ness goes away almost completely the next day. I keep at it for several days, and it tends to stabilize and feel a lot better at that new level of cycling volume.


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Quote Reply
Re: Is foam rolling a myth? [TheStroBro] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Mate -

25 years ago - asbestos was safe
50 years ago it was healthy to smoke cigs
100 years ago - it was totally ok to take arsenic
500 years ago - you had a headache and you drilled a hole in your head

Prohibition was a good idea once. Weed was a gateway drug. The earth was flat. The sun was not the center of the universe.

Basically - throughout all the history of mankind - no one has a clue what they are talking about.

If you want to foam roll - then you go ahead and foam roll. We will find out in 80 years if it is actually bad. My guess - is the materials they used to make the roller will give you cancer. That is just a guess though.
Quote Reply
Re: Is foam rolling a myth? [Twinkie] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quick notes from my perspective (engineering):

Mechanical Techniques:
1. Needling - Pokes the tissue into a recovery response, ++ more circulation (eg like pricking an inner tube, needs more air!)
2. Hypersphere/roller- Pressure and vibration loosens bound tissue and promotes circulation
3. Foam Rolling - does the same but less depth and more overall or "GT" style.
4. Heat - Softens tissue for better results. Just like applying heat to urethanes or plastics. Basis behind Hot Yoga. I am using a lot of heat these days on my thrashed tissues in combo with 2 &3.
5. Ultra-sound. Another mechanical technique but works sub-surface and really injures and breaks down scarring. I felt a distinct difference using ultrasound. I would be more careful with it.
6. Wrapping with rubber bands - Another good idea that works well on joints like ankles. Same principles as 2-4.
7. Stretching

Electrical
1. I have not been subjected to electrical in years, but a good targeted PT sessions at the gym will accomplish similar results. That is working an affected muscle across its full range, in both directions.

Both my legs, esp quads were a real mess. My left leg is horrible and a work-in-progress. My right leg is functioning very well now. That is after 100's of needles including my back, shoulder, neck, lower legs - head to toe!
The group of "rolling" or mechanical is not enough on its own to rehab. This is in conjunction with variety of use e.g strength work (for circulation and rebuild) and stretching

Training Tweets: https://twitter.com/Jagersport_com
FM Sports: http://fluidmotionsports.com
Last edited by: SharkFM: Jan 2, 19 12:50
Quote Reply
Re: Is foam rolling a myth? [cloy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
cloy wrote:
Just got back from my sports chiropractor's office for some IT band issues. After he did some dry needling and graston therapy, I asked where I should roll at home to help increase my hip mobility. He said in absolutely no way should I be rolling out and that a lot of the studies coming out now are showing that it's ineffective. He's incredibly knowledgeable and very skilled, but this took me back. Thoughts?

Let me get this straight.....he is sticking needles in you but said don't use a roller?...…(eye roll)
Quote Reply
Re: Is foam rolling a myth? [cloy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
What medical school did your chiropractor go to? Oh, that’s right, they don’t go to med school.

There is no respected college or university in the United States that has a chiropractic department. Stop wasting your time and money.
Quote Reply
Re: Is foam rolling a myth? [Trev] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Trev wrote:
cloy wrote:
Just got back from my sports chiropractor's office for some IT band issues. After he did some dry needling and graston therapy, I asked where I should roll at home to help increase my hip mobility. He said in absolutely no way should I be rolling out and that a lot of the studies coming out now are showing that it's ineffective. He's incredibly knowledgeable and very skilled, but this took me back. Thoughts?

Foam Rolling isn't a myth because it is a fact people foam roll. King Arthur and Robin Hood stories are myths because there is no reliable evidence the stories are based on historical fact. It isn't a myth that many triathletes are gullible.

Chiropractice, and Graston therapy are at best pseudoscience.

Foam Rolling is an effective wall painting technique. I've found it faster than using a brush.

You’ve confused myths with legends in this post bro.
Quote Reply
Re: Is foam rolling a myth? [imsparticus] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
imsparticus wrote:
What medical school did your chiropractor go to? Oh, that’s right, they don’t go to med school.

There is no respected college or university in the United States that has a chiropractic department. Stop wasting your time and money.

Interesting point because I went to a podiatrist twice. Paid over $900. Left with the same problem. I went to this guy, and while it's not fixed, it's considerably better.

@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri
Quote Reply
Re: Is foam rolling a myth? [Spartan420] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Spartan420 wrote:
I also do not stretch or foam roll. Went through 10 months of 18+ hours per week IM training this year w/o stretching or rolling once.

Made it through just fine

In the past, the only time I ever got injured was when I stretched. So I stopped stretching.

But you're a Spartan that smokes weed..oh and youre an n of 1 too
Quote Reply
Re: Is foam rolling a myth? [cloy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Well, Podiatrists don’t go to medical school either.

cloy wrote:
imsparticus wrote:
What medical school did your chiropractor go to? Oh, that’s right, they don’t go to med school.

There is no respected college or university in the United States that has a chiropractic department. Stop wasting your time and money.

Interesting point because I went to a podiatrist twice. Paid over $900. Left with the same problem. I went to this guy, and while it's not fixed, it's considerably better.
Quote Reply
Re: Is foam rolling a myth? [imsparticus] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Well, podiatrists do not go to medical school either.

imsparticus wrote:
Well, Podiatrists don’t go to medical school either.

cloy wrote:
imsparticus wrote:
What medical school did your chiropractor go to? Oh, that’s right, they don’t go to med school.

There is no respected college or university in the United States that has a chiropractic department. Stop wasting your time and money.

Interesting point because I went to a podiatrist twice. Paid over $900. Left with the same problem. I went to this guy, and while it's not fixed, it's considerably better.
Quote Reply
Re: Is foam rolling a myth? [fulla] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
fulla wrote:
Trev wrote:
cloy wrote:
Just got back from my sports chiropractor's office for some IT band issues. After he did some dry needling and graston therapy, I asked where I should roll at home to help increase my hip mobility. He said in absolutely no way should I be rolling out and that a lot of the studies coming out now are showing that it's ineffective. He's incredibly knowledgeable and very skilled, but this took me back. Thoughts?


Foam Rolling isn't a myth because it is a fact people foam roll. King Arthur and Robin Hood stories are myths because there is no reliable evidence the stories are based on historical fact. It isn't a myth that many triathletes are gullible.

Chiropractice, and Graston therapy are at best pseudoscience.

Foam Rolling is an effective wall painting technique. I've found it faster than using a brush.


You’ve confused myths with legends in this post bro.


Look up the definition of ' myth ' in the Oxford dictionary. I'm playing with the different meanings.
Last edited by: Trev: Jan 4, 19 9:48
Quote Reply
Re: Is foam rolling a myth? [cloy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
cloy wrote:
Just got back from my sports chiropractor's office for some IT band issues. After he did some dry needling and graston therapy, I asked where I should roll at home to help increase my hip mobility. He said in absolutely no way should I be rolling out and that a lot of the studies coming out now are showing that it's ineffective. He's incredibly knowledgeable and very skilled, but this took me back. Thoughts?

Graston is just a more extreme version of foam rolling!! Instead of foam your using metal to break up the fascia, tissue and muscle. They're both within the same family type and philosophy of treatment!

Sounds to me like your sports chiro may view people foam rolling at home as competition. He'd rather you come into the office, if you get what I mean.
Quote Reply
Re: Is foam rolling a myth? [cloy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Is foam rolling going to go the way of compression socks?
Quote Reply
Re: Is foam rolling a myth? [cloy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Firstly I am amazed that people still go to Chiros. There is not credible evidence to suggest what they do (manipulation) has any positive effect at all. “Come back twice a week for four weeks”... um, why? Recondition the body, not manipulate it.
Secondly, foam rolling does little, and there is a fair bit of research coming out in the industry (Physio and Sports Science) that reports this. I’m a Sports Scientist and have rolled for years. But there evidence is there to suggest it doesn’t do much.
If you want to get rid of ITB, get your hips strong. Strengthen your glutes, and ensure they are strong enough that when you do a single leg squat your knee doesn’t internally rotate, or opposite hip drops.
Strength and conditioning is the answer. As the famous Physio Adam Meakins says “ you can’t go wrong with getting strong”.
Just my two bobs worth, but would like to think it is base dof the latest evidence available.
Quote Reply
Re: Is foam rolling a myth? [TakeYourTime] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
My two cents, as a guy who has a bachelors degree in exercise physiology. Although it’s been 6 years since I graduated and 2 years since I’ve worked in the field.

Technically speaking there is no correlation between stretching and sports performance or injury prevention (assuming you’re not a gymnast or a hockey goalie that needs hyper flexibility).

Foam rolling has been shown to increase flexibility at least as much as proper static stretching, and can be done on cold muscles.

Foam rolling in apparently healthy adults has no (or at least very little) risk of injury provided there isn’t some underlying conditions that would result in such like easy bruising in anemia or osteoporosis.

Overlooked area of training the psychology of it. If it makes you feel better (which with everyone I’ve ever worked with or known that has foam rolled it does) do it. It’s so low risk might as well have fun with it. I always feel like a new man when I get up.

I still lapped everyone on the couch!
Quote Reply
Re: Is foam rolling a myth? [TakeYourTime] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
TakeYourTime wrote:
Firstly I am amazed that people still go to Chiros. There is not credible evidence to suggest what they do (manipulation) has any positive effect at all. “Come back twice a week for four weeks”... um, why? Recondition the body, not manipulate it.
Secondly, foam rolling does little, and there is a fair bit of research coming out in the industry (Physio and Sports Science) that reports this. I’m a Sports Scientist and have rolled for years. But there evidence is there to suggest it doesn’t do much.
If you want to get rid of ITB, get your hips strong. Strengthen your glutes, and ensure they are strong enough that when you do a single leg squat your knee doesn’t internally rotate, or opposite hip drops.
Strength and conditioning is the answer. As the famous Physio Adam Meakins says “ you can’t go wrong with getting strong”.
Just my two bobs worth, but would like to think it is base dof the latest evidence available.

I just realized this yesterday. I've never been able to do single leg squats, but I want to work my way to doing them. I started sitting on a bench, holding a counterweight in front of me. I would use one leg to get up. It was fairly difficult and what I noticed is exactly what you have described—my left knee rotated internally pretty severely. I will definitely be adding these in addition to single leg deadlifts, clam shells, lying hip abductions.

@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri
Quote Reply
Re: Is foam rolling a myth? [cloy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
probably, Research 10 years ago says the same thins as now, it's likely a waste.

I haven't personally done it in about 10 years and i've never been healthier.
Quote Reply
Re: Is foam rolling a myth? [Twinkie] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Twinkie wrote:
Mate -

25 years ago - asbestos was safe
50 years ago it was healthy to smoke cigs
100 years ago - it was totally ok to take arsenic
500 years ago - you had a headache and you drilled a hole in your head

Prohibition was a good idea once. Weed was a gateway drug. The earth was flat. The sun was not the center of the universe.

Basically - throughout all the history of mankind - no one has a clue what they are talking about.

If you want to foam roll - then you go ahead and foam roll. We will find out in 80 years if it is actually bad. My guess - is the materials they used to make the roller will give you cancer. That is just a guess though.

Ehhh.... to use this to argue that no one knows anything about anything then medical treatments and surgeries would not work, airplanes would not fly, my microwave would not be able to heat up hot pockets... we'd all just be cave men with a bunch of useless ineffective gadgets.

That being said, while I am not a frequent roller, I suspect that it does help loosen muscles and reduce associated pain and discomfort from that, and that there are things we think we know that we do not and lots of flawed scientific studies.

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook
Quote Reply
Re: Is foam rolling a myth? [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
No, it is not a myth. You can buy these hard-foam cylinders and use them on your muscles. Kinda cool. Check them out in real life.
Quote Reply

Prev Next