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Is Lionel Racing Arizona, or another fall Ironman ?
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I was off ST for a few days and discovered there are no Sanders threads on the first page. And there were no threads about seats being too high. So when are we going to see Lionel in action next? Also for Kona pro qualifying which races are pro events where a win gets a Kona slot?
Last edited by: devashish_paul: Oct 28, 18 5:33
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Re: Is Lionel Racing Arizona, or another fall Ironman ? [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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well he is back to doing hard bike intervals with run interval repeats off the bike as a brick workout at the start of this week. So hes not messing around. Base, pfffft, rest, pffffttt.
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Re: Is Lionel Racing Arizona, or another fall Ironman ? [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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http://m.eu.ironman.com/...nt-registration.aspx

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Instagram | Team Kiwami North America
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Re: Is Lionel Racing Arizona, or another fall Ironman ? [Sbradley11] [ In reply to ]
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In your link there is a third column for pro slots labelled "allocate" what does that mean. For arizona I see 1 for men, 1 for women 2 for "allocate". For Mar Del Plata 2, 2 , 2 !
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Re: Is Lionel Racing Arizona, or another fall Ironman ? [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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He should work base and not race for a few months. Hire a coach and sports psychologist as well. He’s been very successful but very hard on himself. Part of that is what makes him great, but I think help from the outside would make him even better.
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Re: Is Lionel Racing Arizona, or another fall Ironman ? [mwanner13] [ In reply to ]
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mwanner13 wrote:
He should work base and not race for a few months. Hire a coach and sports psychologist as well. He’s been very successful but very hard on himself. Part of that is what makes him great, but I think help from the outside would make him even better.

He just needs to listen to all of us in the ST peanut gallery and he would go 7:45 in Kona!!!!
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Re: Is Lionel Racing Arizona, or another fall Ironman ? [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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I hope he’s thought about a coach and they put together a full year plan. I’d prefer he didn’t race Arizona but it could be an easy Kona spot grab.
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Re: Is Lionel Racing Arizona, or another fall Ironman ? [EnderWiggan] [ In reply to ]
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EnderWiggan wrote:
I hope he’s thought about a coach and they put together a full year plan. I’d prefer he didn’t race Arizona but it could be an easy Kona spot grab.

I am not sure Arizona is an easy slot. You have to take the win for the slot (which he previously has). I do hope he can show up and take the win. He's done plenty of work. His problem is his plenty of work with too plenty and at the wrong time. If he just trains like an Olympic tri guy tapering for an ITU race from now to race day, he'll smash Arizona. Lionel has to do zero long work, come in sharp and rested and just execute on a good pacing strategy. He does not need a monday morning QB coach to explain a full year plan. He can start that after Arizona (unless his blood work post Kona sucked then all bets are off).

Lionel's endurance won't go away in 6 weeks. He has this mistaken notion that he has to do long training to get ready for long racing. For Arizona 2016 he as convinced his long workout leading into Arizona were why he was able to get the record for the IM series and why he his lack of long workouts pre Kona turfed him at Kona. What turfed him at Kona in 2016 was going too hard to Hawi. It's that simple. If he just trains like a short course guy and shows up he will be set...probably showinig up at Island House a few years back before Arizona was perfect timing....forced to rest and race short and hard. He may have bumped his FTP in all sports ever so slightly at Island House that ended up being beneficial at Arizona.
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Re: Is Lionel Racing Arizona, or another fall Ironman ? [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Some races have additional slots that will be allocated depending on the ratio of male to female starters, similar to the age group system.

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Re: Is Lionel Racing Arizona, or another fall Ironman ? [Sbradley11] [ In reply to ]
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I know Joe Skipper is training hard for Arizona with KQ in mind. It’d be a good dog fight if he and Lionel have enough left (it’ll be Joe’s 5th full of the year).

Joe’s on a high after 7th in Kona. Lionel looked broken and another poor day won’t help. Feels like another emotional reaction which he may regret.....
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Re: Is Lionel Racing Arizona, or another fall Ironman ? [TRO Saracen] [ In reply to ]
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Beavis vs Butt-Head
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Re: Is Lionel Racing Arizona, or another fall Ironman ? [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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“I am not sure Arizona is an easy slot. You have to take the win for the slot “

No- at IMAZ there are slots for each winner, plus 2 more slots, likely 1 men’s and 1 women’s, therefore 2nd place will KQ
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Re: Is Lionel Racing Arizona, or another fall Ironman ? [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Erin told me that was the plan, but things always change.
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Re: Is Lionel Racing Arizona, or another fall Ironman ? [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
In your link there is a third column for pro slots labelled "allocate" what does that mean. For arizona I see 1 for men, 1 for women 2 for "allocate". For Mar Del Plata 2, 2 , 2 !

The allocate is based on the number of M/F in the field. The way it seems like it's supposed to work is males or females would only get both slots if they make up more than 2/3 of the pro field, but from AG slots we know the math doesn't always work out quite right. I'm pretty sure Arizona is going to be the first race with these allocate slots.
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Re: Is Lionel Racing Arizona, or another fall Ironman ? [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Two crap IM's in the last couple months.
If he races again soon I predict more crap.
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Re: Is Lionel Racing Arizona, or another fall Ironman ? [mdtrihard] [ In reply to ]
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mdtrihard wrote:
Two crap IM's in the last couple months.
If he races again soon I predict more crap.

2016 he was crappie at tremblent and Kona and set the world record for IM series at Arizona
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Re: Is Lionel Racing Arizona, or another fall Ironman ? [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Has there been any word on a coach yet.
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Re: Is Lionel Racing Arizona, or another fall Ironman ? [Fishbum] [ In reply to ]
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Doesn't look like anything reported on social media, but I'd think that would be a 1-2 month "process" if this truly is this big of a change in direction that he mentioned he needed/wanted.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: Is Lionel Racing Arizona, or another fall Ironman ? [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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:)
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Re: Is Lionel Racing Arizona, or another fall Ironman ? [talbotcox] [ In reply to ]
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#imwithtalbot

DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!
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Re: Is Lionel Racing Arizona, or another fall Ironman ? [mdtrihard] [ In reply to ]
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He needs a coach to re-focus. Hard bike intervals aren’t going to do it. I think you’re right. It seems like he’s digging himself a deeper hole. His problem isn’t effort or lack there of. If he was overtrained going into Kona, then pushing it even harder is not going to be a recipe for success going forward. He got this far on talent and effort, but how much farther?

mdtrihard wrote:
Two crap IM's in the last couple months.
If he races again soon I predict more crap.
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Re: Is Lionel Racing Arizona, or another fall Ironman ? [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
mdtrihard wrote:
Two crap IM's in the last couple months.
If he races again soon I predict more crap.

2016 he was crappie at tremblent and Kona and set the world record for IM series at Arizona

It appears to me he is in a much deeper hole.
There is only one way we will find out for sure.
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Re: Is Lionel Racing Arizona, or another fall Ironman ? [mdtrihard] [ In reply to ]
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mdtrihard wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
mdtrihard wrote:
Two crap IM's in the last couple months.
If he races again soon I predict more crap.


2016 he was crappie at tremblent and Kona and set the world record for IM series at Arizona


It appears to me he is in a much deeper hole.
There is only one way we will find out for sure.

There is truth to this. This is why I made the disclaimer about blood numbers. If blood numbers are OK, then an intensity + rest program given all his previous volume and test simulation days can get him into a good position. Keep in mind he ran 2:55 in Tremblant on "empty".

If he swims 54 and bikes 4:10 in Arizona, and you add 5 min for transitions, the guy is leaving for the run 5:10. but it's more likely he is running by 5:05 race time. So 2:55 run gets him sub 8. If he runs under 2:50 then he can take the win. Keep in mind the TSS at T2 at Arizona is way lower than Kona or Tremblant, so he likely CAN run a decent amount faster than 2:55 with the right rest and intensity. His first half at Tremblant was 1:18 if you recall, so it's not like he is totally out of range of the win.
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Re: Is Lionel Racing Arizona, or another fall Ironman ? [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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I wont say it's a good or bad thing to do because the new parameters of KQing may cause pros to rethink what events they do in fact race, etc (it seems it's more podium only type of results makes it, so pray for no bad luck). I just know that what I saw from LS pre Kona build up + Kona + his own post Kona assessment- it looks like he's very close to be "broken"....And I'm not necessarily saying from a specific injury, just from the peanut gallery he looked "toast" and maybe that's more mentally/emotional than anything. I look on his IG feed and 2 weeks post Kona he's back in the pain cave doing bike/run intervals. So again, I'm not saying he should or shouldn't race Arizona because of the new parameters, it could really change your season....and maybe he's on the edge but not over done it that he can "hang on" through 'Zona and get the KQ out of the way and then take the big sigh of relief/regroup/recharge.

ETA: I like LS for the sport of tri because to me he's like the 1st person I've really seen come into the sport from the "other side" of sport and make it. He didnt grow up in tri royalty, he didn't grow up training as pro lifestyle, he just did tri's for an outlet and was damn fast his first time. I actually cant think of many "world class" athletes with his athlete trajectory from random AG athlete to world class athlete. So I think he brings in a "hunger" that is self driven, and maybe that's why he is so damn hard headed and self driven, and that's his biggest advantage and maybe we are now seeing his biggest hurdle too.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
Last edited by: B_Doughtie: Oct 28, 18 15:09
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Re: Is Lionel Racing Arizona, or another fall Ironman ? [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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I agree that good result swings his season and get's the KQ out of the way if her performs to his abilities. I guess the main question is if his blood numbers etc are good to go, can he keep his head on the prize, not did a hole before the race, and have a KQ in him. I THINK the 3:15 run in Kona actually took far less out of him than running 2:55 at Tremblant on empty. At this point he's had a Kona taper, an easy race on the quads at Kona, a Kona recovery (so at least 20ish easy days out of say 30 around Kona) and now he may actually be more rested than at the end of his Kona build. So he's got too really long workouts in his legs (Tremblant and Kona) he has a bunch of longer workouts (long bricks, long bikes, long runs) all done before Kona. So if he does not dig a hole now, his base is good, he may be sharpening up, and he's accumulating rest and has time to get his body composition on track.

Last year he said he had no legs at Arizona after a hard race in Kona (even though he went fast). In 2016 he has an easy race in Kona and was on fire at Arizona. This year, he had an easy race at Kona so maybe that race did not hurt him much at all given the effort and intensity this guy puts in.

I hope that he's accumulated enough rest to be fairly fresh at Arizona. As I said, if he can start the run in sub 5:05 race time, he does not need to do a lot on the run to contend for the win.

The cool thing about Lionel is that he won't quit if he is having a bad day. He's rather take it on the chin in the media, burn up his legs, and finish a crap race than do what other pros might do and drop out to save it. So he ends up getting even more fans because he behaves like the rest of us rather than other pros. So you can't help but hope that the guy hangs in and gets a second wind or other guys in front blow up.
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