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Irony
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My riding and ski partner works as a physician at Intermountain Hospitals in Utah. He and his colleagues saw quite a bit of death last year. Several of their colleagues died or were in the ICU with COVID. Intermountain is the main sponsor of St. George 70.3. This triathlon will bring thousands of people from around the world to a small town in Utah during a pandemic. We can debate whether or not Ironman and the County should allow a triathlon during a pandemic. The private equity company that own$ Ironman and the conservative elected officials in Utah who have ignored the pandemic for 14 months think it is a swell idea. Thousands of our fellow triathletes seem to think it is a good idea too (even though most states have said it is way too early for mass participation events). My question for the forum concerns Intermountain. Should a major hospital system be sponsoring an event that could literally cause increased COVID cases in southern Utah? I just read the following article. My opinion is that it is disgraceful for them to be sponsoring this event. Thoughts? Please read article before replying.

https://khn.org/...st-on-the-frontline/
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Re: Irony [riverdaledad] [ In reply to ]
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Ironman isn’t owned by a private equity company. That was two owners ago.

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
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Re: Irony [riverdaledad] [ In reply to ]
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If we are not debating the running of event (your post, your rules) then I say they sound the perfect fit for a sponsor noting the issues you raise.....

I suppose a company that makes masks and hand wash too, but otherwise way more appropriate than most sponsors.
Last edited by: Duncan74: Apr 8, 21 20:17
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Re: Irony [riverdaledad] [ In reply to ]
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I don't see a problem at all. Like it or not, large portions have the world have decided to move on in a manner they feel safe. My brother (M.D.) was on the committee that recommended a local lockdown before the state ever stepped in. He and his colleagues have aged a decade in the last year as our town was hit worse than about anywhere (0.4% of our county population (not just cases) has died from it). He, and other on the medical staff will be at the start line of the first event they can do.

There are seven doctors in my immediate family who have dealt with COVID every day. At this point, every one of them would sign up for a race.

edit: One other thing. Obesity is one of the major risk factors for COVID mortality. Encouraging health and fitness was a good idea before COVID and still remains so.
Last edited by: Traket92x: Apr 8, 21 20:08
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Re: Irony [Traket92x] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Irony [riverdaledad] [ In reply to ]
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You seem reasonable and eager for honest debate.</sarcasm>

Trent Nix
Owned and operated Tri Shop
F.I.S.T. Advanced Certified Fitter | Retul Master Certified Fitter (back when those were things)
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Re: Irony [trentnix] [ In reply to ]
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Intermountain should not be sponsoring races that might kill competitors. Let’s wait until everyone is vaccinated.

https://www.npr.org/...-mystery-of-covid-19
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Re: Irony [riverdaledad] [ In reply to ]
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More people will die from heart-related events during triathlons this year than will die from Covid contracted at triathlons.

Trent Nix
Owned and operated Tri Shop
F.I.S.T. Advanced Certified Fitter | Retul Master Certified Fitter (back when those were things)
Last edited by: trentnix: Apr 8, 21 20:57
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Re: Irony [trentnix] [ In reply to ]
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trentnix wrote:
More people will die from heart-related events during triathlons this year than will die from Covid contracted at triathlons.

The race is May first which is three weeks from now. It is not only the race you have likely hundreds of volunteers and influx of visitors and their spouses maybe kids etc. Seems a bit premature in an area that has lots of active cases still.

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

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Re: Irony [spockwaslen] [ In reply to ]
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In a few decades, your children or grandchildren will ask you what you did to help during the 2020/2021 pandemic. Did you home school me Dad? Were you an essential worker Mom? Did you ignore the pandemic and train for a triathlon Dad? If you are heading to St. George, then you need to adjust your moral compass. While 550,000 of your countrymen were dying, you focused on intervals. While millions of kids were distance learning, you went on 5 hour bike rides at 60% FTP. Ironman, Intermountain, and you have a moral decision to make. Is it more important to race or to protect our fellow countrymen? I encourage you to join those of us who are waiting to race until it is safe for us and our host communities.
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Re: Irony [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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Advance is a private, family-held business that owns and invests in companies across media, entertainment, technology, communications, education and other promising growth sectors. Our mission is to build the value of our companies over the long-term by fostering growth and innovation. Advance’s portfolio includes Condé Nast, Advance Local, Stage Entertainment, The IRONMAN Group, American City Business Journals, Leaders Group, Turnitin, 1010data and Pop. Together these operating companies employ more than 17,000 people in 29 countries. Advance is also among the largest shareholders in Charter Communications, Discovery and Reddit. For more information visit http://www.advance.com.
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Re: Irony [trentnix] [ In reply to ]
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Let’s listen to Trent Nix from Dallas. He doesn’t race triathlons and he voted for Trump.
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Re: Irony [riverdaledad] [ In reply to ]
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riverdaledad wrote:
Intermountain should not be sponsoring races that might kill competitors. Let’s wait until everyone is vaccinated.

https://www.npr.org/...-mystery-of-covid-19

I am not sure that you read the article. It would appear nobody who died was a potential competitor.

If you are going to change your argument (suspect you would) then don't sensationalize.

There's zero correct answers here. I am racing. Fully vaccinated. Calculated risk. I understand there are lots of important things that are much more important than triathlon, but wait for it...there were more important things that were life and death for people before it. So you could argue that doing triathlon instead of addressing world hunger (for instance) requires a moral compass shift...

DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!
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Re: Irony [riverdaledad] [ In reply to ]
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Ha Ha! You both are right. Hug it out!
Didn't see that one coming.

----------------------------------------------------------
Someone once accused me of being swimfan. I miss that guy.
Last edited by: G1: Apr 8, 21 23:31
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Re: Irony [riverdaledad] [ In reply to ]
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riverdaledad wrote:
My riding and ski partner works as a physician at Intermountain Hospitals in Utah. He and his colleagues saw quite a bit of death last year. Several of their colleagues died or were in the ICU with COVID. Intermountain is the main sponsor of St. George 70.3.

I'm aware this is going to be really cynical.

Now that all healthcare workers (at least willing ones) have been vaccinated, the hospital won't really risk losing staff. Can't see a downside businesswise.

While it is probably not the intention of the hospital to help get St. George residents sick, local covid infections are likely to bring in more revenue. Since the hospital is sponsoring something, I understand it's being run for-profit.

"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden
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Re: Irony [kajet] [ In reply to ]
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Just. No.
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Re: Irony [riverdaledad] [ In reply to ]
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riverdaledad wrote:
Advance is a private, family-held business that owns and invests in companies across media, entertainment, technology, communications, education and other promising growth sectors. Our mission is to build the value of our companies over the long-term by fostering growth and innovation. Advance’s portfolio includes Condé Nast, Advance Local, Stage Entertainment, The IRONMAN Group, American City Business Journals, Leaders Group, Turnitin, 1010data and Pop. Together these operating companies employ more than 17,000 people in 29 countries. Advance is also among the largest shareholders in Charter Communications, Discovery and Reddit. For more information visit http://www.advance.com.

Bullshit. You were referring to Providence Equity as WTC’s owner and you know it. Googling who the current owner is and trying to spin Advance as a private equity firm to fit your incorrect post and narrative is just nonsense.

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
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Re: Irony [riverdaledad] [ In reply to ]
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You keep trying, but it just isn't working. You need to start with an intelligent argument that triathlon events produce material transmissions, hospitalizations, and deaths. So far, you haven't. Probably because you can't. The reality is the probabilities are much greater that the swim and bike of a triathlon will produce more hospitalizations and deaths than Covid.

The US has hosted several dozen triathlon and running events since fall of 2020. So far, I have not found anything that points to material transmission associated with a triathlon event. I am open to the possibility, so go searching. If you find something tangible, get back to us.

Here's a poor, but eye-opening proxy. Remember that massive motorcycle rally in 2020 that stayed on the headlines for about a week? The thing had almost 500K participants over 10 days. It was huge. CDC studied it. It only produced 51 primary cases, 26 secondary and tertiary cases, four hospitalizations, and 1 death. This was an outdoor event. I suspect that triathlon is less likely than this to contribute to transmission, largely because triathlon will largely be attended by well people. This is probably why you will have a very hard time finding any reports of material transmission associated with a triathlon. It probably is not there.
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Re: Irony [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]
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Those numbers related to Sturgis are what they could trace on neighboring Minnesota. Not for the entire rally. It was also early data points.

This is a more recent study: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/...l/10.1002/soej.12475

It was far worse than most reporting and much less than some other misleading reports that it caused an apocalypse.

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
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Re: Irony [riverdaledad] [ In reply to ]
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riverdaledad wrote:
Let’s listen to Trent Nix from Dallas. He doesn’t race triathlons and he voted for Trump.
Looks like I was right. And you don't know who I voted for (or if I even voted!).

Back on topic, after a year here's all we truly know (after all this time) about Covid and associated risks:
  • Covid is a serious disease that can leave heart and lung damage behind in those who recover
  • your risk of death is extremely low across all categories.
  • relatively speaking, mortality rates are highest among elderly, the obese, and diabetics.
  • there is virtually zero risk of mortality in children.
  • there is extremely low risk among generally healthy people

Here's what we can deduce from regional infection and mortality relates
  • mask policies and mask use seems to generally have little effect on Covid but seem to destroy influenza
  • lockdown policies seem to generally have little regional impact
  • arid climates seem to be at a lower risk than humid climates
  • the vaccine is working
  • outdoor events seem safer than indoor events

The post-mortem, assuming we ever get one from an objective mindset that doesn't worry about who voted for whom, is going to be fascinating. But considering the number of politicians, media talkingheads, and armchair prognosticators who will have egg on their face, the chance of getting an objective post-mortem is pretty much zero. Because ineffective policies and dead grandparents is a small price for the narcissists among us to pay for not having to say "I was wrong".

Trent Nix
Owned and operated Tri Shop
F.I.S.T. Advanced Certified Fitter | Retul Master Certified Fitter (back when those were things)
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Re: Irony [trentnix] [ In reply to ]
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trentnix wrote:
After a year here's all we truly know (after all this time) about Covid and associated risks... Here's what we can deduce from regional infection and mortality relates
This is incredibly well-written and should be sent to every news outlet with instructions to read and commit to their body of knowledge.
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Re: Irony [riverdaledad] [ In reply to ]
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Should a drug company sponsor the Tour of California?
Should alcohol companies sponsor NASCAR teams?

#swimmingmatters
Laugh hard. Run fast. Be kind.
The Doctor (#12)

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Re: Irony [LazyEP] [ In reply to ]
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LazyEP wrote:
Should a drug company sponsor the Tour of California?
Should alcohol companies sponsor NASCAR teams?
There was a lot of pearl-clutching over Little Debbie sponsoring IM Chattanooga several years ago.

Trent Nix
Owned and operated Tri Shop
F.I.S.T. Advanced Certified Fitter | Retul Master Certified Fitter (back when those were things)
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Re: Irony [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]
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exxxviii wrote:
You keep trying, but it just isn't working. You need to start with an intelligent argument that triathlon events produce material transmissions, hospitalizations, and deaths. So far, you haven't. Probably because you can't. The reality is the probabilities are much greater that the swim and bike of a triathlon will produce more hospitalizations and deaths than Covid.

The US has hosted several dozen triathlon and running events since fall of 2020. So far, I have not found anything that points to material transmission associated with a triathlon event. I am open to the possibility, so go searching. If you find something tangible, get back to us.

Here's a poor, but eye-opening proxy. Remember that massive motorcycle rally in 2020 that stayed on the headlines for about a week? The thing had almost 500K participants over 10 days. It was huge. CDC studied it. It only produced 51 primary cases, 26 secondary and tertiary cases, four hospitalizations, and 1 death. This was an outdoor event. I suspect that triathlon is less likely than this to contribute to transmission, largely because triathlon will largely be attended by well people. This is probably why you will have a very hard time finding any reports of material transmission associated with a triathlon. It probably is not there.

Sturgis and triathlons for that matter are indoor events. People gotta eat, drink alcohol and sleep, and talk to each other while they do. That’s the issue.

E

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
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Re: Irony [riverdaledad] [ In reply to ]
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riverdaledad wrote:
In a few decades, your children or grandchildren will ask you what you did to help during the 2020/2021 pandemic. Did you home school me Dad? Were you an essential worker Mom? Did you ignore the pandemic and train for a triathlon Dad? If you are heading to St. George, then you need to adjust your moral compass. While 550,000 of your countrymen were dying, you focused on intervals. While millions of kids were distance learning, you went on 5 hour bike rides at 60% FTP. Ironman, Intermountain, and you have a moral decision to make. Is it more important to race or to protect our fellow countrymen? I encourage you to join those of us who are waiting to race until it is safe for us and our host communities.

Yes child, I home schooled you.
Yes child I am an essential worker.

You know what else I did child, I trained for a triathlon and did 5 hour bikes @ 60% FTP and focused on intervals..

But no son, I did not ignore the pandemic. I took every safety precaution suggested
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