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Ironman for sale?
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Probably not a surprise given all their financial woes, but it looks like WTC/Ironman is in play again. Hopefully a stable, well funded buyer emerges.....

https://www.reuters.com/...ources-idUSKCN1N00DR
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Re: Ironman for sale? [Larchmonttri] [ In reply to ]
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That didn't take long. And I wonder if there is a billion dollar sucker out there, well another one. It is going to be really hard to convince someone that 900+ million was a bargain last time, and now it is worth a lot more..

You just never know, there are individual triathletes out there that have a billion or more dollars, so could just be another hobby buy...
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Re: Ironman for sale? [monty] [ In reply to ]
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monty wrote:
You just never know, there are individual triathletes out there that have a billion or more dollars, so could just be another hobby buy...

Are you and Dan saving your pennies again for another joint acquisition? If not maybe Zuckerberg will buy it.


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Re: Ironman for sale? [monty] [ In reply to ]
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The Prince of Bahrain should buy it. That would result in an epic thread

Matt
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Re: Ironman for sale? [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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Dan and I talked about buying it, but that was when it was going for 2 to 3 million, when Valerie was selling it. That was a lot of money then to us, still is, but I would find it if that were the price once again!!!
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Re: Ironman for sale? [monty] [ In reply to ]
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the only way they can sustain this growth is to add a caffeine drink and TV channel like Red Bull

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Re: Ironman for sale? [Pun_Times] [ In reply to ]
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Pun_Times wrote:
The Prince of Bahrain should buy it. That would result in an epic thread

i don't think you should discount that as a possibility.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Ironman for sale? [Larchmonttri] [ In reply to ]
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Wurf mentioned this on his blog and I couldn't find anything on it last week...that inside info from the pros.

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
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Re: Ironman for sale? [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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What about Disney/ESPN? I just assume everything will be owned by the mouse some day...
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Re: Ironman for sale? [Larchmonttri] [ In reply to ]
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I’m guessing that it’s been unofficially for sale for a while now. What may happen is that their best assets will get sold pretty quickly like in 6 months or less and they will be left with their problem assets and then at some point they will give up on getting a decent price for them and they will fire sale them with a bottom fisher stepping in and getting a bargain. I would think that a buyer will have problem with financing this asset it’s too risky with uncertain growth...so they need a fool with cash to burn
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Re: Ironman for sale? [aavlee] [ In reply to ]
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aavlee wrote:
What about Disney/ESPN? I just assume everything will be owned by the mouse some day...

if you made me guess, based on what i know and what i suspect, i'd say wanda is not going to sell it. but that's a guess.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Ironman for sale? [Gonefishin5555] [ In reply to ]
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Value is based on revenue...this asset makes a lot of freaking money.

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
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Re: Ironman for sale? [TheStroBro] [ In reply to ]
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Value for this would be based on EBITDA, not revenue. Gotta net out operating expense.
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Re: Ironman for sale? [Poon] [ In reply to ]
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It’s all about the cash flow and then the buyer needs to determine an appropriate multiple to use based on the risk factors involved. When private equity market is hot these guys will sometimes get stupid with their valuations but right now I doubt it’s going to be like that.
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Re: Ironman for sale? [TheStroBro] [ In reply to ]
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Value is based on revenue...this asset makes a lot of freaking money. //

Really, you know how much they clear?? From recent past earnings, they are no where near close to the billion dollars that was paid, not by a long shot. Of course there are ways to inflate earnings, which was most certainly done by the last group that sold it. Wanda was in such a buying spree, they neglected to do their due diligence, and now they have a couple choices. Sell at a loss, or wait and try and grow it into at least the purchase price. Then they could do what the last group did, take out a massive over value loan, pay off the company, then look for some sucker that will buy it and not notice that huge note hanging around the neck of the company.


I did see in the business section of some rag I read, that they are looking to refinance that huge 270 million loan. I think it had a big balloon payment at some point soon, so no wonder they are trying to get it to a manageable payoff with operating income. A giant balloon payment would kill any growth right now, and honestly, they could not just pay it off. They usually have tens of millions in cash on hand, so 270 mil is a huge pill to swallow..


I think they want to keep this baby though, but now it is tied in with the soccer team and other sports assets, so it may end up being a package deal. Of course Espn?Disney and a lot of others are interested, but like the article says, no one wants to pay the price. Those entities were probably in on the bidding the last time, only to get outbid by what seemed to be a crazy person, so not likely they will suddenly go crazy themselves...
Last edited by: monty: Oct 26, 18 16:21
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Re: Ironman for sale? [Larchmonttri] [ In reply to ]
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Who wants to go in on some powerball tickets?

blog
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Re: Ironman for sale? [monty] [ In reply to ]
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They have great cash flow...expenses, dunno, which is why I said nothing about profit.

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
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Re: Ironman for sale? [TheStroBro] [ In reply to ]
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They have great cash flow...expenses, dunno, which is why I said nothing about profit.


But all of that is relative, no? Now if they had just paid 650 million for the actual business, it might have not been a horrendous deal, just a bad one. But keep in mind ,that besides having to grow the business model, make acquisitions, and pay all their base expenses, they also have to service the debt on 270 million, and try and bring that principal number down at the same time(right now avoiding a ballon payment that would cripple them). SO that drains a lot of what could be operating capital, and tends to stifle a business. Not that they cannot grow, they have already made some buys, most notably the rock and roll marathons. I dont know the exact details of that, so cannot comment whether it was good or not, but guessing since it was in house, it was a good deal for them. When Andrew is involved, it is probably a decent decision, but when the larger group is making the decisions, well they are not that good or informed on the intricacies of such a tiny sport and business.In the grand scheme of things, this is a really small deal for Wanda, so may not get the attention that the soccer team does..
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Re: Ironman for sale? [Larchmonttri] [ In reply to ]
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Well, Amazon is a sponsor today.... perhaps and owner tomorrow?
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Re: Ironman for sale? [Larchmonttri] [ In reply to ]
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AMAZON.....
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Re: Ironman for sale? [aavlee] [ In reply to ]
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aavlee wrote:
What about Disney/ESPN? I just assume everything will be owned by the mouse some day...

Disney has their own money printing press with their Disney races. Tris are significantly more expensive to put on. I can’t imagine Ironman is turning the profit margin that Disney is on their races. They charge around 180 a half and can fill it in a couple days or less. With 25000 people that means they’re clearing 4 million plus in a couple days. That’s more than double the revenue of an Ironman race. Add in that they are doing the whole race on their property, in Florida at least, the costs are tiny in comparison.

I don’t see any reason why they would buy Ironman, especially at any price even close to that. To put this in perspective they bought Lucas films for 4 billion, do you think they could even turn close to a quarter of the profit that Lucas films has given them already, let alone how much it will be worth to them long term?
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Re: Ironman for sale? [monty] [ In reply to ]
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monty wrote:
That didn't take long. And I wonder if there is a billion dollar sucker out there, well another one. It is going to be really hard to convince someone that 900+ million was a bargain last time, and now it is worth a lot more..

You just never know, there are individual triathletes out there that have a billion or more dollars, so could just be another hobby buy...[/quote]
I read somewhere that the Tour de France was netting over $200 million/yr for its owners, so that would give it a valuation somewhat north of a billion. For that they offer 21 days of televised programming, and adding in rebroadcasts possibly gives about 150 to 175 hours of airtime to sell advertising. It has a solid base in Europe and interest in it is growing all over the world. It also has some very large, and consistent sponsors. Compare that to the Ironman brand with limited televised events, a relatively short history, anemic growth outside the US, and inconsistent sponsorship. So while you may value a company at say six times earnings, the expectation is that it will continue those earnings and that there's a good possibility to grow those earnings (revenue growth, synergies, cost reductions, etc.). So either you expand more Ironman events, buy other events (increasing debt if you don't have the cash), raise prices, find more sponsors (what are you offering them), or come up with some type of new event (Ironman Olympic event or something), you're going to have difficulty maintaining revenue. I believe WTC has already been trying some of these with little success, so it probably is a good idea to divest. I wonder if WTC would be attractive for the TdF owners, it would give them something to do in months other than July.
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Re: Ironman for sale? [Poon] [ In reply to ]
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Poon wrote:
Value for this would be based on EBITDA, not revenue. Gotta net out operating expense.

that's how you and i would think. i think the chinese paid something like 15x or more. if this gets sold - and i've stopped trying to make sense out of chinatown - i don't think it'll be a value buy, but a heart buy. the sheikh. somebody like that. the usual suspects, AEG, ASO, IMG, they just aren't going to pay that multiple. unless wanda just capitulates.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Ironman for sale? [Pun_Times] [ In reply to ]
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I would look about 400 km west-south-west of Bahrain for a more likely buyer. They seem to be sniffing around sport properties like the WWE right now...

***
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Re: Ironman for sale? [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Here is a link to the Forbes blurb on the sale of the ufc which was 2 years ago. The buyers definitely overpaid on that one also.

https://www.forbes.com/...uation/#34f0e8dc2abb
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