I'm sure its true - 100%

Though it would be awesome if it were - swim in Nice is mental - everyone needs a little of that in their lives

What did you find so special about it? (serious question. I have never done a triathlon in Nice, but I found the pebble beaches not so appealing, actually, and sort of fenced in by the Promenade des Anglais).

Cheers,
malte

I think that they did a really good job overall, the pebbles are not really a problem, on the way in to the water you just sit on the beach in the midst of the chaos until they're good to go, on the way out you're on matts I think up to the ramp to transition, but if you stay in Nice, you can get the local trains to Villefranche, and other places on the coast with sandy beaches for kids - but the pebbles are 2-3 mins of the day and you're so caught up in events that you don't even notice them

food was great, city is fab, genuinely, if not friendly, they pretend to be as opposed to other places - parts of the Alps - where your very presence is pretty much resented

We had an amazing apartment one street back from the expo - close to the old town and I just think its quite nice to have that sort of major event in the centre of a city

the bike is just spectacular but more gran fondo than individual TT test when you are MO / MOBOP - which I am, and the run is exposed and hot but really well supported

it was so good - we're going back next year - combine holiday with event, all very easy to negotiate, logistically easy, great accom, relatively cheap to eat out or cook in - its just a good deal for us

The Vichy event is 10 times better than Nice

Hopefully! I'm signed up for 2016

quite possibly - though I'm sure that the 10* is quantifiable (prettier bike? less drafting? nicer run? better city? better location? - but i'm not going just for the event - once we've moved down there at the end of next year I'll look at it, but at present Vichy doesn't work for us due to location, timing and travel so even if its 100* better its a bit academic

Where exactly did you hear this?

It has all the characteristics of a wild and uninformed rumour to me

Hawaii pays WTC nothing to run the world Championships there.

So if say NICE said here is 8 million. We want the ironman world championships to be run here for the next 3 years. I'd tipwtc would do it.

The company all about making money now.

Financially the WC in kona makes no sense.

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Company was about making money before. That is what a business does. New ownership does not change that simple fact. It makes money other ways at Kona through sponsorship agreements, hotel nights and a host of other ways. If you knew their business model you'd see the revenue streams. There is customer draw that makes Kona special, an intangible asset for Ironman brand. If they move, the loose this rich history for the event. Not sure $8m is worth that brand erosion.

It's always been about making money

I think it would take more than 8 million. The cost of doing a race at Kona is probably more expensive than doing it most places since its an island so that could be a draw for WTC.

Moving the IM World Championships to anywhere other than Kona would be a great way to cure me of my IM habit. The WC too me, is only about Kona. It's like the Masters or Wimbledon, too me.

If there are enough people like me who only do North American IM to qualify for Kona, there "might" be a drop off in NA events when the event gets shuffled to Australia, or China where it doesn't appeal, or is cost prohibitive to attend.

It's not lost on me that the rationale to move to Europe, Asia etc might boost attendance at those events.

Ken

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"the trick is to keep losing weight until your friends and family ask you if you've been sick. then you know you're within 10 pounds. if they start whispering to each other, wondering if you've got cancer or aids, you're within 5. when they actually do an intervention, you're at race weight." - Slowman

Personally I think a World Championship in Nice would be beyond awesome. Before all of us lemmings flocked to Kona (really after Kona broke down and started offering prize money), the main race to go to was Nice, which Mark Allen won 10x and all the pro action was at. It drew a way deeper field than Kona. But I digress. It would be fine to have a Kona race with the usual road to Kona and a World's in Nice.

Here is something interesting:

• If I look at the race description for Texas 2016 it says they offer 75 slots for the IM World Championships in Kailua Kona in 2016
• If I look at Muskoka, Mallorca, Louisville 2016, they all specifically mention Kona 2017
• If I look at Chattanooga 2016, this is what it says This race will offer slots to the 2017 IRONMAN World Championship. The number of slots will be announced soon!

My thought is this is just wild speculation because all these 2017 qualifiers are generally talking about Kona slots.

This, but you see how big Kona is.

If the World Champs were anywhere else and people qualified for it, it would be a 2nd massive race that people would be vying to get in to. So instead of the big show at Kona, you could have 2 events. Spacing them 6 months apart makes sense too, from a business perspective.

Also, I could finally get to Kona! /pink

Yes, you could get to Kona. But, so could everybody else because nobody will want to do it anymore.

It's a huge risk for WTC, but I bet that ultimately it would pay off to move away from Kona. Kona is iconic and there would be huge inertia and negative pushback to overcome, but after a year or two of footage from some epic new WC course, like Nice or Monaco or Vichy, and lemmings will line up to qualify for this. There are many potential benefits from a new, less limiting location than Kona. Ultimately I think WTC will take the plunge and go for it. 2017 seems awfully soon, but could be, who knows.

I think wrt to money they would have to look at the negative costs associated with taking the WC out of Kona and potential impact on North America races vs the upside of putting a WC in Europe and the upside on Euro, Asian and South African races.

For North Americans, we'll be all up in arms about no WC in Kona, but having been to other WC's on other continents, they have just as much excitement and buzz as Kona. There is nothing really that special about Kona other than it having hosted the world's for the past 30 something years. It can still continue to be the Tour de France of triathlon and it will still be important to win it, while others win a WC elsewhere.

At some point the question is the brand and momentum bigger than the location.

At Penticton we found out that not that many care about Penticton's history, course, legacy.

If nothing else it would be a great business school case study to see if it is truly the goose laying the golden egg, or not. Maybe it is "just another venue" and what really matters is putting all the best athletes in the same place at the same time. Right now, it happens to be in Kona. Maybe if you put them in Zell Am See or Nice we (speaking globally, not US centric) are fine with that looking at the overall global picture. Does Messick and Dalian Wanda want to risk killing the goose? Right now they don't know really if it is the core of the company's momentum or not. Zell Am See and Tremblant proved that the location is not as important as bringing the best athletes together.

Me, I want to race the championship where the best congregate at the long distance (70.3 and 140.6). 140.6 happens to be in Kona, but I'd go wherever WTC puts it provided it is somewhere I would want to travel to. I also saying this having gone to Kona 3x to race and 1x to volunteer. The thing that draws me to qualify for Kona is to race the 140.6 championship, not neccessarily to go to Kona (the first time it was about racing in Kona...after that it was just racing the best). If you put a 140.6 championship on 2x the Zell Am See course or in Nice, or in South Africa, I'd be there in an instant (well I would have to qualify, and that's the challenge either way).

Dev

I also heard the rumor - not about France 2017 specifically - but that it would move from Kona. I would also love to do it in France. Unlike many others, the only reason I go to Kona is because it's the world champs, not because it's in kona. In fact if kona was a regular IM there is no way I'd sign up for it!

France is still challenging enough to be worthy of world champs status, and the venue might actually more worthy of world champs status. I mean, it's tough to compare a pre race training ride with a croissant stop in Monaco vs a pre race training ride with a pupu stop in Waikaloa!

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Exactly. There will of course be an uproar and then after one edition somewhere amazing, people will realize how great it is and, though special, how limiting Kona was. Do you think North Americans really have some special affinity to Kona other than its history? It's not exactly easy to get to for anyone, North Americans included. A flight to Europe is easier than a flight to Hawaii for most North Americans. The affinity to Kona is really just about humans natural resistance to change. But, once the change happens and you see that it wasn't all bad, you move on. That's what will happen.

This is the view from just past the Col d'Eze on my Friday pre race ride and Tue post race ride up by LaTourbie overlooking cannes -Nice-Villefranche Sur Mer-Monaco-Menton....I'll PROBABLY go back next year for a "recce" at IM France 2016 for IMWC 2017 LOL...if nothing else just for the pre and post race rides.

It's always been about making money and it should be unless this was a publicly funded enterprise. If you take away the incentive to make $$, the whole thing falls apart.

I agree with Dev that, from a competitor's standpoint, you want to have as legitimate a "world championship" as possible, recognizing that in age-group competition, you are always limited by the travel budget of those you'd like to see attend through qualification. One of the things going for Kona in this regard is that it has such a reputation, that a high percentage of those who qualify are going to go, so you get the best quality field you can have despite the travel budget limitations. I think you risk diluting the quality of the field if you move it. If you've done any of the ITU "world" championships, they suffer significantly in terms of quality of field compared to Kona because they just don't have the magnetism that Kona has despite doing a darn good job of creating a fun international semi-olympic style "buzz." Hell of a lot of fun, but the field is not as deep.

I bet you when Messick saw how it worked out at Austria (Tremblant was not really a great test since it was still in North America) and having raced the Zell Open 70.3 himself, he got a lot warmer to the idea.

Keep in mind that he only warmed up to the idea of moving the 70.3 WC OUTSIDE the USA after he personally raced IM Tremblant. Personal experience of any company exec goes a long long way in their psych and decision making. In business, there is never a perfect answer...after crunching biz cases and spreadsheets, its a matter of taking the dive.

If one venue could really be an awesome starting point, Nice would be it. You don't even have to do anything....just move the WC label to Nice and then the year before up to the following April give out WC slots to Nice in parallel to your usual road to Kona slots for October.

Dev

If you listen/watch the Bob Babbit interview of Messick from Hawaii this year he asks him if IMWC is likely to move from Kona. Messick replied words to the effect of 'I don't want to be the guy that moves the WC away from Kona'. Might not ultimately be his decision but doesn't sound like it will happen under his guidance.
If It did move, the legacy initiative would be a dead horse.

A company that wants to make money, what a weird concept!

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Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca

I THINK that you will get deep fields. You could have a parallel WC's in Europe the exact same day as Kona and you'd get equally deep fields in both without watering down a single one. If I look at the performances of he Euros who I know in my age group at Mallorca or Barcelona, they could easily put down the hammer at Kona but were not there.

I am a much much better 70.3 athlete than 140.6 and in general, my age group position from Clearwater to Vegas to Tremblant to Austria has ranged from 25th to 85th. Kona I have been in between 75th and 95th in my age group....just looking at that, it seems stupid why anyone would go to finish mid/back of pack, but it is what it is and still has a draw...you're still trying to beat the guys in your vicinity. This year at 70.3 world's for me it was a big achievement to actually beat Ken Glah...he's in my age group and I've been getting closer and closer and closer. Finally did it. I ended up in 41st in 50-54 on a really tough course with a sub 5. The other 40 guys in front were machines!

You'll still get a very deep field.

What WTC SHOULD have done to build up to this is create a qualifying system for their regional championships at least for half of those races instead of doing general entry.