Scott, very late to this thread, but I think it is perfectly fine if a pro shows up at any local tri, run, bike etc etc race and races under the same rules as age groupers and wins.

I actually find it ridiculous that top tier age groupers are running around claiming overall IM wins when better athletes are kind of "dissuaded from racing". If a pro like Thomas says, "fine I don't care about prize money, I want a race win, then more power to him".


AND I think it is perfectly OK if he uses goodwill he developed with people at WTC to gain late entry to a sold out race. That's a private thing between him and WTC for his "service" to the brand which arguably very little age groupers have done.

I would much rather see pros taking race wins at no prize money races than age groupers largely because age groupers end up over representing the "win" and I'd rather see that title go to a pro even if he/she chooses to race for no prize money.

On a related topic, we see a bit of the same by many sub 40 year old age groupers claiming titles in their age groups when we know that Frodo and Kienle are also in the same age group and are the real best...once you get over 40 (and even then you have guys like Crowie and Cam Brown) all the best are in the age group anyway. Anyway, a bit of a tangent, but it could be interesting if they nuked all age groups under 40 and have an open category that had say 250 men/150 women at Kona and then start the age groups above 40 only. But then the KPR woulld get complicated for those holding down full time jobs (of course many pros do also), but academically speaking there is merit in such a discussion. Once you get above 40 all the best are in the age group, not segregated away over in the pro division.

I'm not sure what you are commenting on related to my comments.

does that surprise you?

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Fruit snacks are for winners

i totally fucked up my post on edit but thankfully thomas saw it first. i agree wholeheartedly. what a funny thread. :)

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The two main points that I was really trying to bring up is that Thomas should be able to race in any race. If there is no prize money he just races age group rules, even though he can't get age group prizes (like Kona slots). The second point was related to access to the sold out race. Thomas brings more value to sold out race than most fast age groupers and since he's participated in the WTC Pro races offering up a form of unpaid labour, he probably earned a privilege with WTC that the fast age grouper never did.

On days he does not get prize money, he earns nothing, but has helped WTC put on a show.....you need to have a variety of pros from the fastest to the next tier to have a proper pro race. When guys finish out of the prize money, they basically offered themselves up as cannon fodder for the top guys to beat and that's part of WTC's show. So if they cut him a favour and let him enter the local race at the last moment, so be it. He's earned that, whereas most age groupers have not generally helped WTC to the same degree.

The others items are a bit unrelated to Thomas racing, but more relevant to the pro vs age group distinction. My 2 cents is under 40 it should just be a large open race since there is no real appreciable physiological decline before then and many pros have families and full time jobs too. But that would not work with the WTC model with KPR series based qual vs 1 race qual for age groupers.

Anyway I support Thomas. Age groupers wanting to break the tape first is an artificial accolade since WTC has dissuaded pros from entering races by removing prize money. But if a pro wants zero prize money and wants to break the tape first and kicks the butt of age groupers searching for the same glory, then tough luck for the age groupers....better train harder or blame parents for not good enough genetics.

That may be true, but the rules someone posted earlier in the thread state that pros entering non-pro races must enter through general entry. Thomas didn't do that. I got sick two days before IMWI and had a horrible day. I'd love to go down to Louisville and give it another shot. I'm pretty sure I'd get laughed at if I strolled up to the expo the Friday before the race trying to register.

+1 If you want to race with AG, you need to play by all the age group rules, including registering a year in advance. Special favors = not a level playing field.

This has nothing to do with him being a pro. I know a couple AG guys that are able to show up to an IM weekend of and sign up for it. This sport has a small community and it's not that uncommon.

I need better friends, or perhaps I just need to leverage the friends I have better.

What is the new Triathlon Pro Union's stance on this? If you are a 3rd tier pro and not making money to speak of, why not just go race the age group only Ironman races and be the winner?....Then stick that on your resume?

I've really got no opinion on it to speak of, but I am curious as the general opinion of the the fellow pros at a time when a new pro union is trying to gather momentum. Was that addressed here somewhere and I missed it?

I local AG'er did that last year in Louisville.

It's not because TG is a pro, its because he knows A LOT of people and he is very visible. Same goes for many AG'ers.

Yawn... This pettiness bores me.

Sponsors, donors, patrons, friends, all have special advantages in the sports and entertainment world. The folks that fund the sport/entertainment have EARNED/PAYED FOR these advantages. You might feel butt hurt, but you really need to get over it.

You guys are't some of those "occupy wallstreet" types, are you?

Get over yourselves and find some better friends!

Congrats to Tom for the win, and for having friends! He is a fast and smart guy.

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Austin Hardy -

Louisville did not sell out last year.....I doubt a local AG'er could have walked up to the desk at Madison and register on the spot.

I don't begrudge TG for racing Madison and think the blame for the "controversy" rests solely on WTC's shoulders for their ham-fisted policies and inconsistencies. But comparing an on-site registration for IMLOU to IMWI is apples & oranges.

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"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

Let's be honest, I don't really want to talk about myself and I am choosing to respond to you specifically Scott because you know me a little bit better than most on here. I realize that some pros are friendly, maybe you see me as similar to them, but I can say this. The reason pro porta-potties exists is in part because I kept harassing the operations guys about it. By harassing I mean kindly bringing it up everytime and at every race. At IMMT 70.3 and IMMT I talked to the VP of operations for a good couple of hours each trip about things and what my next goal is to crusade for pros - it was for better parking at that race if you new with some of the issues the pros faced. Do my fellow peers do this, well the ones I interact with at the races don't. Maybe someone else does that at a race I am not at, but I have spent a lot of time lobbying on issues that both benefit my peers and move pros forward. I have been told that pro potties is now written into the standard operating procedures for Ironman events. I don't think that would have happened if it wasn't for constant reinforcement - it may seem petty but sometimes that is what it takes.

To contrast this, I was at a Challenge race this year and I asked if we could have pro potties and I was laughed at by one of the old REV3 contenders. It seems that he had never raced Ironman events and was unaccustomed to some of the nicer things we now have at Ironman races. It is the old approach that if you never ask you will never receive. I work hard at both triathlon and on improving this sport in general. With that being said, although I got in last minute, I didn't do so by a channel that wasn't available to anyone else - including you. It just so happens that many of the poo-poers on here didn't realize that those channels exist. That is not my fault.

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I really think this needs to be emphasized. I think it is one big misconception rubbing a lot of people the wrong way.

My guess is there aren't too many people that decide on a whim they want to race an IM two days later so most people haven't explored this option.

There are no keys to the Executive Washrooms in transition, so I presume some volunteer gets the title of "Pro porta-potty attendant" for an hour or two?

They are generally right next to the pro bike racks, which at some races is a seperate area from the AG racks.

They also have clear signage.

Agreed, most people don't just hop into an Ironman last minute although I know a few that have. I remember Mac Macneary doing way back in the day, he didn't train nor did he have any residual fitness. Can't remember the end result.

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