I don't know the answer to your question. I have been over 12 for years but never wanted to enter that way. I think Ironman will push the number as high as they can and still attract multiple finishers to their events. Its not in their interests to do anything else while they are a commercially driven company. The question is not how many athletes can we get to Kona - its how much money can we make out of Kona and this is one way they can encourage athletes to part with more and more money while still not quite getting there!

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He who understands the WHY, will understand the HOW.

Its been covered in other threads but its a bit of a misunderstanding. 12 makes you eligible but then you need* to do a full IM every year beyond that to maintain eligibility which can balloon to any number until you get in... or so the policy states.

Hopefully huffnpuff chimes in here because I believe that policy has changed quietly in two ways but this is just what I have gleaned from various threads: 1) rather than a drawing every year from the legacy pool, it is now guaranteed entry for a race a few years down from when you gain eligibility and 2) you may not need to do a full IM anymore, they may have allowed 70.3s but none of this is consistent with their posted policy so I can't verify it. I follow it and any other thread quite a bit since I am at 9 and am planning on 3 this year to begin my eligibility.

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808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

No it's 12. But they basically get you because the program probaly is still a "wait list" and thus some don't get in. And so you have to keep doing one to get into the program:


See this cavaet:

Athlete must have completed at least one full-distance IRONMAN event in both 2017 and 2018.

Athlete must be registered for a full-distance IRONMAN event in 2019.

Originally from: http://www.ironman.com/...m.aspx#ixzz5nisOoQcL

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

It's 12 and then it's a wait list, as mentioned, but they tell you how far down the list you are. I applied for 2018 and got an email few months later saying I'm in for 2019. So it was just a one year wait, but I did apply within minutes of registration opening for 2018.

Nice, it took 4 minutes for someone to jump in and take a shit on WTC. Do you guys have these responses stored away for whenever a WTC thread comes up? They could auction off these entries if their goal was simply to make as much money as possible.

If it isn't for you, fine, but I for one was grateful for the opportunity to race in Kona.

It is for me - I just want to qualify a different way that is all. I am also bang on the money - WTC are a commercial company out to make as much money as possible. While it was owned by Valerie Silk it was run by athletes for athletes. Back then Ironman had a completely different feel than it has now. Thanks for voicing your opinion. I respect yours as much as I hope you respect mine. Im glad you got the chance to race in Kona.

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He who understands the WHY, will understand the HOW.

I know every one is going to say it's just a loyalty program or something, but as the story goes, the idea was never to force 12 payments to get in to kona.
It was seeing these people who live the life style, year in, year out and saying "they should go to kona some day".

And in that sense, i think the people who the program was really made for may say "datn i need to wait a couple extra years", but they probably intended to do a 13 14,15 etc.. Kona or not.

If it isn't for you, fine, but I for one was grateful for the opportunity to race in Kona.

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Ha the more I hear and read of the costs of going to Kona and the headaches that it seems some airlines don't take certain bike bags now, etc and this legacy program idea I'm reminded of the Seinfeld skit when Seinfeld was asking George if he wanted "free" Super Bowl tickets?




"FREE??


I gotta pay for the airline ticket, I gotta pay for the hotel, I gotta pay for all the food, just to use "free" Super Bowl tickets. Some "free" gift they are."




There's probaly some pretty good parallels from that skit- and no I'm not ragging on WTC. Based on the OP more accurately portraying what you seemingly have to do at this point in this legacy program....it's more 12*. Again not railing on WTC. Just thought it was a funny likely fairly accurate comparison.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

[/quote] Its been covered in other threads but its a bit of a misunderstanding. 12 makes you eligible but then you need* to do a full IM every year beyond that to maintain eligibility which can balloon to any number until you get in... or so the policy states.[/quote]
This

I think most people are of the impression that if you do 12, you're in. It's a lottery system, doing 12 gains eligibility to the lottery.

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Tough Times Don't Last, Tough People Do.

Its been covered in other threads but its a bit of a misunderstanding. 12 makes you eligible but then you need* to do a full IM every year beyond that to maintain eligibility which can balloon to any number until you get in... or so the policy states.[/quote]
This

I think most people are of the impression that if you do 12, you're in. It's a lottery system, doing 12 gains eligibility to the lottery.[/quote]
Yeah. Weren't they rumbled by the Feds a couple of years back for running illegal gambling opps I mean lotery.
So just shuffle the payment method a bit... 'pay $750 for your lottery ticket and get a free IM entry of a race near you' would still bust the gambling laws. But 'buy a $750 IM entry and get a free Kona lottery entry' doesn't.
Spot the difference anyone ?

Its been covered in other threads but its a bit of a misunderstanding. 12 makes you eligible but then you need* to do a full IM every year beyond that to maintain eligibility which can balloon to any number until you get in... or so the policy states.[/quote]

This

I think most people are of the impression that if you do 12, you're in. It's a lottery system, doing 12 gains eligibility to the lottery.[/quote]
If that's the case, most people can't read? The legacy program is detailed on their site and it clearly states you need to keep doing one IM/year until you get in. Drawing or waitlist, that adds to your count.

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808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

Yes I know the rules, my point is the number of people entering the pool is getting significantly larger year after year. First year most got in or following, now it’s years.

Does anyone know someone who has done just 12 and got in their first year of eligibility in 2018-2019? I doubt it.

Quite a few get in as they ‘offer’ current year slots when others don’t enter/can’t race/fail on the validation criteria. Those slots toll quite far as people already committed to year after do not always alter their plans to bring it forward.

This year’s application threw out 2020 and 2021. It’s not accurate to call it a ‘lottery’, allegedly its done on time of application so applying on the dot of the application link appearing and having all relevant details on your ‘12’ to hand gets you early in the queue.

Agree the scheme will have to be amended as more people join the queue than slots and it reach a point where the earliest allocated slots are 3 years + away.

I just wanted to emphasize the bold font. It's not a lottery as stated below. It may have started as a lottery when they first started the program, but it's not longer a lottery. Just go to their website to read the exact details of what it is.

http://www.ironman.com/...m.aspx#axzz5nkt7FfeT

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My marathon PR is "under three, high twos. I had a two hour and fifty-something."

Still 12 but Id bet money it will go to 14 or so in the next couple years.

Maybe I'm late to the party but did it go up from 10 to 12 or did I misunderstand? I was pretty sure on the Quest for Kona mini series last year one guy "qualified" after his 10th IM. I guess that could have just been for tv though.

Always been 12. Did the guy qualify by the normal way after 10, rather than legacy?

Not that I remembered he just had to complete his 10th IM and then he was given a Kona slot. His son also qualified by the drawing (however he did get 2nd in an age group race) so I assume it was a good advertising father/son/Kona moment as well as bringing light to the legacy program. It was the first time I had heard about it.

It is a "loyalty program," and a "lifestyle reward," and a great way for people like me who are going to race for years and never KQ to have a chance to play at being a big boy for a day.

And I have no problem with that.

Money is supposed to be exchanged for goods and services. But you want to find a way to (a) keep dilettantes from buying the experience when they have no interest in the sport or lifestyle, and (b) make sure that some yahoo with more money than fitness doesn't die on the course, so why not kill two birds with one stone by using iron-distance experience (and brand loyalty, since it is their brand after all) as a gatekeeper?

But you want to find a way to (a) keep dilettantes from buying the experience when they have no interest in the sport or lifestyle, and (b) make sure that some yahoo with more money than fitness doesn't die on the course//

That would be the Ebay auction for slots, the ones that go for an average of 50K+..

That doesn't address either issue I raised; specifically, people with too much money and not enough ability (and, let's be honest, brand loyalty).

Just because one has $50k doesn't mean that one can do a full-distance triathlon.

Money is not the gatekeeper. Ability is the gatekeeper. You need people with enough ability to finish, but not enough ability to KQ.

Requiring 12 completions serves that purpose.

Just because one has $50k doesn't mean that one can do a full-distance triathlon.

Money is not the gatekeeper. Ability is the gatekeeper. //

I'm not sure why you are arguing with me. I just pointed out that you can enter Kona with enough money, so in these cases it is the gatekeeper as you put it. The legacy program is fine, much better than the lottery scam before it for sure. But lets not pretend that this auction, or the other pay an extra 2500 bucks and get a spot at a sold out race, are not there to foot the bill for the ironman foundation. Each way to get into sold out races has it place, some might actually save money buying the Ebay slot, rather than doing 13 to 15 ironmans to get in..

I just went last October. It is a straight up queue...once you are eligible, you are put on a list based on when you applied. As long as you maintain eligibility, your position on that list stays the same. I was told a year in advance when I would be going. Was a very smooth process.

I would argue that qualifying is the ability gate keeper. For the legacy program its time, money and patience as the gate keepers.

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2x Deca-Ironman World Cup (10 Ironmans in 10 days), 2x Quintuple Ironman World Cup (5 Ironmans in 5 days), Ultraman, Ultra Marathoner, and I once did an Ironman.