Ironman Lake Tahoe, will never do his race again

Sep 23, 13 22:41

Post #1 of 144 (17148 views)

I know there has been a lot posted on this already, and I wanted to also vent my frustration as a participant on a a few more things.

The bus from Squaw Village left am, for what we were told was a 30 minute ride. Try 1 hr 15 minutes with our arrival to Kings Beach due to traffic at 630 am. We were even beat by someone on a bike leaving Squaw a village. Then you have to find where to dump specials needs bags, put on wetsuit, get body marking, check your bike and add nutrition and walk to the start. Outrageous!

Then the men's changing tent was a disgrace. Dark, a mess, no room to change and not enough volunteers. I saw many frustrated athletes which then discovered their bike bag clothes were completely wet. Why didn't they put our bike age bags in the tent since it was pouring rain the night before?

Consider that approximately 400 athletes did not show on race day that were checked in, so it could of been much worse in T1.

Then the cutoff on the bike at mile 89 at 3:45 pm which was explained as due to road permits on the course. Are you serious? To ride back to Squaw Village after 3:45 pm from mile 89 is very realistic.

Then at the Awards Ceremony Mike Reilly makes a joke of the long T1, which was not appropriate.

I recommend against this race, the Race Directors have lots of work.

In Reply To:

Last edited by: goldenbear: Sep 24, 13 22:39

Re: Ironman Lake Tahoe, will never do his race again [goldenbear] [ In reply to ]

Sep 23, 13 22:52

Post #2 of 144 (17110 views)

goldenbear wrote:

I know there has been a lot posted on this already, and I wanted to also vent my frustration as a participant on a a few more things.

My bus from Squaw Village left at 515 am, for what we were told was a 30 minute ride. Try 1 hr 15 minutes with our arrival to Kings Beach due to traffic at 630 am. We were even beat by someone on a bike leaving Squaw a village. Then you have to find where to dump specials needs bags, put on wetsuit, get body marking, check your bike and add nutrition and walk to the start. Outrageous!

Then the men's changing tent was a disgrace. Dark, a mess, no room to change and not enough volunteers. I saw many frustrated athletes which then discovered their bike bag clothes were completely wet. Why didn't they put our bike age bags in the tent since it was pouring rain the night before? I spent 35 minutes in T1. I did IM Austria and their T1 was fabulous and took me 8 minutes.

These problems resulted in my bike DNF.

Consider that approximately 400 athletes did not show on race day that were checked in, so it could of been much worse in T1.

Then the cutoff on the bike at mile 89 at 3:45 pm which was explained as due to road permits on the course. Are you serious? To ride back to Squaw Village after 3:45 pm from mile 89 is very realistic.

Then at the Awards Ceremony Mike Reilly makes a joke of the long T1, which was not appropriate.

I recommend against this race, the Race Directors have lots of work.

Sorry your day did not go as planned! This race was awesome for most and one of the most beautiful venues ever!! Sure it was tough but it is an Ironman. I was at the awards and did not find the comment, in it's context, inappropriate at all. Glad you registered on ST. Perhaps your next post will be constructive.

D

In Reply To:

Team Every Man Jack

http://www.teamemj.com

Re: Ironman Lake Tahoe, will never do his race again [dmounts] [ In reply to ]

Sep 23, 13 23:08

Post #3 of 144 (17064 views)

Glad you had a good race yesterday at IMLT.

My point is that logistics of the race planning should not cause an Athlete to DNF, namely long T1 and late bus arrival. Yes, the course was tough and cold but this are not my reasons for not recommending this race until these and other issues are resolved.

Re: Ironman Lake Tahoe, will never do his race again [goldenbear] [ In reply to ]

Sep 23, 13 23:15

Post #4 of 144 (17035 views)

goldenbear wrote:

Glad you had a good race yesterday at IMLT.

My point is that logistics of the race planning should not cause an Athlete to DNF, namely long T1 and late bus arrival. Yes, the course was tough and cold but this are not my reasons for not recommending this race until these and other issues are resolved.

I don't race Ironmans and know nothing of the Lake Tahoe event, but seriously - course logistics caused you to DNF? I can easily understand how bad logistics could contribute to having a bad day and all, but DNF? How many other athletes faced the same bad logistics and still managed to finish? Blaming course logistics for a DNF sounds a whole lot like an excuse and not very much like an explanation. Just sayin'...

Re: Ironman Lake Tahoe, will never do his race again [goldenbear] [ In reply to ]

Sep 23, 13 23:18

Post #5 of 144 (17030 views)

goldenbear wrote:

I know there has been a lot posted on this already, and I wanted to also vent my frustration as a participant on a a few more things.

My bus from Squaw Village left at 515 am, for what we were told was a 30 minute ride. Try 1 hr 15 minutes with our arrival to Kings Beach due to traffic at 630 am. We were even beat by someone on a bike leaving Squaw a village. Then you have to find where to dump specials needs bags, put on wetsuit, get body marking, check your bike and add nutrition and walk to the start. Outrageous!

Then the men's changing tent was a disgrace. Dark, a mess, no room to change and not enough volunteers. I saw many frustrated athletes which then discovered their bike bag clothes were completely wet. Why didn't they put our bike age bags in the tent since it was pouring rain the night before? I spent 35 minutes in T1. I did IM Austria and their T1 was fabulous and took me 8 minutes.

These problems resulted in my bike DNF.

Consider that approximately 400 athletes did not show on race day that were checked in, so it could of been much worse in T1.

Then the cutoff on the bike at mile 89 at 3:45 pm which was explained as due to road permits on the course. Are you serious? To ride back to Squaw Village after 3:45 pm from mile 89 is very realistic.

Then at the Awards Ceremony Mike Reilly makes a joke of the long T1, which was not appropriate.

I recommend against this race, the Race Directors have lots of work.

In Reply To:

Transition bags on the ground is quite common. I saw that there was rain in the Saturday forecast and picked me up a box of these at the Safeway grocer right across from the swim start. Everything was perfectly dry for me.

Re: Ironman Lake Tahoe, will never do his race again [goldenbear] [ In reply to ]

Sep 23, 13 23:57

Post #6 of 144 (16965 views)

I agree that there is a ton of room for improvement in the logistics and the overall management of this race. The management was especially poor coming off IMMT, when you see how truly well run a race can be (Tremblant) it is sad to see such an amazing venue like Tahoe potentially be squandered.

However, I'm not sure I agree with the rest of your conclusions. Like many others I faced the same challenges and overcame them with some adaptability and planning. I sincerely hope WTC learns from this years race and finds a way to improve the logistics next year because I believe this is a spectacular venue that deserves to survive.

If you never race it again, that is entirely your perogitive, doesn't mean that others don't deserve the opportunity to.

Re: Ironman Lake Tahoe, will never do his race again [goldenbear] [ In reply to ]

Sep 24, 13 0:11

Post #7 of 144 (16940 views)

I am sorry that some small adversities before the race and in T1 (that should be no problem for an experienced IM racer) were causative for your bike DNF.
I hope you learn from your mistakes (like making sure you arrive in time, know the layout and protect your bike clothes from the elements) and will do other Ironman branded races in the future (maybe those where they fluff you with food dye).

I gladly take your spot at IMLT 2014.

Re: Ironman Lake Tahoe, will never do his race again [goldenbear] [ In reply to ]

Sep 24, 13 0:13

Post #8 of 144 (16940 views)

How can you possibly spend 35 min in T1 and how is that WTCs fault? You don't need volunteers to change, you should be prepared to do that on your own. Shouldn't take more than 15min to fully strip down, dry off and put on clothes.

Sounds like a few things can be improved, but not a total write off as you're suggesting.

Re: Ironman Lake Tahoe, will never do his race again [goldenbear] [ In reply to ]

Sep 24, 13 0:42

Post #9 of 144 (16889 views)

Sorry for your DNF. Shuttle buses started at 4:30am. You chose to push the envelope by getting on a later bus. As others have said, you knew you were dropping your bag off to sit in the rain on Saturday. There's a 7-11 across the road. Would have been 10 minutes to go over there and buy some ziplocs. Just adapt a bit next time I guess.

------------------
My business-eBodyboarding.com

Re: Ironman Lake Tahoe, will never do his race again [goldenbear] [ In reply to ]

Sep 24, 13 3:37

Post #10 of 144 (16646 views)

Welcome to ST. It might be a good idea to read through the forum rules before posting again.

WHAT CAN'T I POST HERE? We are especially cranky about trial-by-internet. Do not register to post on this forum only to have your first post be a complaint against a company doing business in the sport of triathlon. Do not lodge a complaint against a named entity unless you yourself are willing to be identifiable, that is, no anonymous rants. Do not EVER say somebody's product is unsafe unless you have rock-solid demonstrable proof. This is as much for your benefit as anyone's (we'd prefer your hot temper doesn't result in a lawsuit a manufacturer lodges against you). Do not accuse anyone of taking performance enhancing drugs.

Re: Ironman Lake Tahoe, will never do his race again [goldenbear] [ In reply to ]

Sep 24, 13 5:02

Post #11 of 144 (16363 views)

I assume you are joking re this post.

30+ minutes for T1?

Haha.

Rhymenocerus wrote:

I think everyone should consult ST before they do anything.

Re: Ironman Lake Tahoe, will never do his race again [goldenbear] [ In reply to ]

Sep 24, 13 5:17

Post #12 of 144 (16301 views)

I have had about 34 hours to temper the pain from Sunday. I always finish these races and immediately swear I will never do another. I'm starting to think that I might want to come back and take another shot at this course. Sick, I know :-)

There is no doubt that T1 needs to be dramatically larger. If it were three times the size it might be ok. Unless you were there it is hard to understand what it was like. I had a 14:41? T1 and it sounds like I was one of the faster ones. I found a square foot of space and got to work. Although it was admittedly a challenging situation, I can't figure out how you would have taken 30 minutes in there.

Your bus experience wasn't optimal. I don't have the brass balls required to get on the last bus of the morning so I got up early and took one of the first buses and had plenty of time. I guess they will have to adjust the time that the last bus leaves in the morning next year.

It was a hard course. If you were on the edge of the cutoffs, your start to the day sure didn't help you but.......

It was the first year. I think with a few changes this can be a great race. Hell it was a great race even with its issues.

----------------------------
Jason
None of the secrets of success will work unless you do.

Re: Ironman Lake Tahoe, will never do his race again [wannabefaster] [ In reply to ]

Sep 24, 13 5:38

Post #13 of 144 (16173 views)

So you had a long T1 as well? did you say 14:41?! Wow.

I would honestly never do a 1st year Ironman, they really never seem to have it logistically together, kinda like IMNYC

Re: Ironman Lake Tahoe, will never do his race again [goldenbear] [ In reply to ]

Sep 24, 13 5:47

Post #14 of 144 (16102 views)

Maybe your DNF was your fault and not the race organizers?

Last edited by: Sanuk: Sep 24, 13 5:49

Re: Ironman Lake Tahoe, will never do his race again [goldenbear] [ In reply to ]

Sep 24, 13 6:00

Post #15 of 144 (16026 views)

From what you've said, all of your issues were things that could easily, or more to the point, SHOULD easily have been able to deal with by YOU. As has been pointed out, the buses started running at 4:30. My trip down to T1 took less than 30 minutes. The T1 changing tent was indeed very tight. The space that they had allocated for the T1 tent was typical of an Ironman, but due to the temperature at LT and the need to dry and change or put on extra clothing, the tent times were slow and there was less turnover in the tent than usual. In short, racers were not leaving T1 as fast as new racers were arriving from the swim. I, much like many other, have never spent so much time in T1, and have never bothered to dry off, or pull on so much extra or dry clothing. So, yes, it was crowded and it was tight...so what? How much space do you need to dry off and put on clothing? Do you usually have an assistant dress you? Perhaps you should practice pulling clothing out of a bag and putting them on before your next race. I was embarrassingly slow and managed to do it in 10 minutes.

Don't blame the RD for your lack of fitness, preparation, or planning.

I think the fact that they provided dry towels was pretty fantastic. In the 8 IMs I have done, I have never had a towel waiting for me on my chair. Lastly, as for your wet gear bag...did you fail to notice that it had been raining ALL DAY LONG?! I double bagged gear and taped the top closed. Then, when I arrived race morning, I removed the extra bag.

I had a horrible race. It was miserable. I have never moved so slowly for such a long period of time. Do you know who I blame? Myself.

Re: Ironman Lake Tahoe, will never do his race again [The Phoenix] [ In reply to ]

Sep 24, 13 6:03

Post #16 of 144 (15998 views)

The Phoenix wrote:

I would honestly never do a 1st year Ironman, they really never seem to have it logistically together, kinda like IMNYC

Actually, I think IM Mont-Tremblant got as close to being perfect as any race I've ever done on their very first year in 2012 and it was just as perfect this year.

Re: Ironman Lake Tahoe, will never do his race again [Birkierunner] [ In reply to ]

Sep 24, 13 6:06

Post #17 of 144 (15980 views)

ok I'll give you IM Mont-Tremblant. Still wouldn't risk it.

Canadians are a different bread also, so that is an outlier

Re: Ironman Lake Tahoe, will never do his race again [The Phoenix] [ In reply to ]

Sep 24, 13 6:11

Post #18 of 144 (15927 views)

The Phoenix wrote:

So you had a long T1 as well? did you say 14:41?! Wow.

I would honestly never do a 1st year Ironman, they really never seem to have it logistically together, kinda like IMNYC

My previous longest T1 was about 8 minutes and I have never been able to figure out what I was doing for 8 minutes in transition. That might have been my first year of racing.

A T1 under 15 minutes yesterday was smokin'. If you weren't there it is impossible to understand the chaos of that tent (especially for a 1:19 swimmer like me). Imagine sumo wrestling with 300 naked guys that you don't know. Most of us were laughing about it. Frustrating? Yes. But what could you do but just roll with it?

----------------------------
Jason
None of the secrets of success will work unless you do.

Post deleted by LazyMarathoner [ In reply to ]

Sep 24, 13 6:11

Post #19 of 144 (15926 views)

Re: Ironman Lake Tahoe, will never do his race again [goldenbear] [ In reply to ]

Sep 24, 13 6:13

Post #20 of 144 (15915 views)

I've been following all of the comments about this race and I am pretty surprised by the amount of bike DNFs being blamed on logistics. Even with logistical challenges, if you've trained properly for the course, how can you miss the cut off? I've also noticed a lot of people seemed surprised by how hard the bike course was. The race is in the Sierras at altitude... was it not properly communicated that it would be hard? That is not a sarcastic question, I'm very curious how so many people felt blindsided.

They are watering down Ironman by removing mass starts, making hard courses easier or canceling them altogether. I signed up for Tahoe '14 yesterday and hope they keep it just as brutal for one more year.

Re: Ironman Lake Tahoe, will never do his race again [mfisch69] [ In reply to ]

Sep 24, 13 6:55

Post #21 of 144 (15686 views)

"I had a horrible race. It was miserable. I have never moved so slowly for such a long period of time. Do you know who I blame? Myself."

x 2!!! I've "raced" one IM, "participated" in two more, and feel like I just "survived" on Sunday. and yet my slowest IM to date may be the one i'm most proud of as I wanted to quit DNF for the first hour of my nature walk...err I mean "run". there are many things I could have done differently on Sunday that would have resulted in me not finishing after the sun went down but they didn't have to do with the RD.

that said, T1 was an absolute disaster. I swam just under 1:10 and by the time I got to the changing tent there were NO seats. it was iron chaos so I improvised, adapted, overcame, and ran all the way to the back where we were dropping off our bags and got fully nude/dry in front of all the spectators that were there (hey I'm Mexican, I have a year-round tan and KNOW I look better naked than some of you pasty white boys from the north!)

I've only done 4 but I agree that the logistics of Tahoe are pretty horrible. that established, the venue more than makes up for it. when I wasn't suffering (which was pretty much ALL day) I did notice how beautiful a course we were on. to the original poster, it was certainly less than ideal but IM raceday NEVER goes exactly as planned so a large part of hearing Mike Reilly profess in the finish chute, "YOU are an Ironman" is directly related to how you roll with raceday adversity. sorry you DNF'd but you were not alone. MANY people failed to make the bike cut off and i'm certain not everyone made the run cut off either.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Michael in Fresno
"Do you spend time with your family? Good. Because a man that doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man" V. Corleone

Last edited by: Tribato: Sep 24, 13 7:35

Re: Ironman Lake Tahoe, will never do his race again [goldenbear] [ In reply to ]

Sep 24, 13 6:56

Post #22 of 144 (15679 views)

I raced too. I agree that T1 was a cluster F^*k and it would have been better if the bags were out of the rain. My T1 time was 27min, I'm 61 and finished so I think you could of too.

I'm not sorry you had a bad day, as other posted it's your own fault.

I see you registered and posted this thread yesterday. ST is a rough forum, in the future if your going to bitch you've better come here with something better than this.

Welcome to ST.

Train safe & smart
Bob

Last edited by: Longboarder: Sep 25, 13 14:05

Re: Ironman Lake Tahoe, will never do his race again [goldenbear] [ In reply to ]

Sep 24, 13 7:02

Post #23 of 144 (15587 views)

goldenbear wrote:

I know there has been a lot posted on this already, and I wanted to also vent my frustration as a participant on a a few more things.

My bus from Squaw Village left at 515 am, for what we were told was a 30 minute ride. Try 1 hr 15 minutes with our arrival to Kings Beach due to traffic at 630 am. We were even beat by someone on a bike leaving Squaw a village. Then you have to find where to dump specials needs bags, put on wetsuit, get body marking, check your bike and add nutrition and walk to the start. Outrageous!

Then the men's changing tent was a disgrace. Dark, a mess, no room to change and not enough volunteers. I saw many frustrated athletes which then discovered their bike bag clothes were completely wet. Why didn't they put our bike age bags in the tent since it was pouring rain the night before? I spent 35 minutes in T1. I did IM Austria and their T1 was fabulous and took me 8 minutes.

These problems resulted in my bike DNF.

Consider that approximately 400 athletes did not show on race day that were checked in, so it could of been much worse in T1.

Then the cutoff on the bike at mile 89 at 3:45 pm which was explained as due to road permits on the course. Are you serious? To ride back to Squaw Village after 3:45 pm from mile 89 is very realistic.

Then at the Awards Ceremony Mike Reilly makes a joke of the long T1, which was not appropriate.

I recommend against this race, the Race Directors have lots of work.

In Reply To:

Want to take a guess at the hardest volunteer position to fill at almost any IM? I don't expect to have a personal valet in an IM. Any volunteer assistance at all is always greatly appreciated but you need to be prepared on your own.

Re: Ironman Lake Tahoe, will never do his race again [LazyMarathoner] [ In reply to ]

Sep 24, 13 7:05

Post #24 of 144 (15556 views)

The race is in the Sierras at altitude... was it not properly communicated that it would be hard? That is not a sarcastic question, I'm very curious how so many people felt blindsided.

It's clear to me that many people are not adequately prepared for these events under "normal" conditions ( que the "Fleck you elitist ass" comments), throw in high altitude, and the cold weather on race day and you get what you get. Anyone who did not realize this was going to be a hard a tough race, was quite frankly being whole ignorant of the realities of the situation.

Higher altitude performance is variable. Even in my own family - I seem to go OK, but my wife who is a better and fitter athlete than I am right now, seems to suffer much more - all other things being equal. Point being, you are never really going to have an idea of how you go until you are actually at 7,000 and going reasonably hard. This is not the races fault!

Getting changed into the appropriate attire needed for the bike, should have taken an additional 5 min - if you had the right gear, and you knew what you were doing. 10 minutes at the absolute most. I have no idea why so many took so much longer in T1.

Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Re: Ironman Lake Tahoe, will never do his race again [The Phoenix] [ In reply to ]

Sep 24, 13 7:10

Post #25 of 144 (15515 views)

The Phoenix wrote:

ok I'll give you IM Mont-Tremblant. Still wouldn't risk it.

Canadians are a different bread also, so that is an outlier

From what I heard IMWhistler was a great day too.

Long Chile was a silly place.

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