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Ironman Cozumel Demanding Athletes Sign a COVID-19 Waiver/Release
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I received an e-mail from ACTIVE entitled "Re: Reminder: Sign your waivers for 2020 IRONMAN COZUMEL," and I thought to myself, "Self, you signed all your waivers, otherwise they would not let you complete your registration - what could this be about?"


So I clicked on the link, which took me to a page entitled "COVID-19 Waiver."


In essence, the race organizers (and presumably IM the corporate entity) want to go forward with the race, but want competitors to waive the following risks:


"Risks of personal health and participation. The risk of contracting communicable diseases, including, among others, COVID-19, from other people (including, among others, any co-participant; spectator; organizing staff, representative, volunteer or contractor; and / or any other person (s) before, during and / or after the Event and other activities The risk that a participant's mental, physical or emotional condition (including any use or abuse of alcohol or medications, whether prescription or open access) is either whether or not it has been disclosed, whether or not it is known, combined with participation in these activities may result in injury, damage, death, or some other loss.Although the Organizer may review a participant's medical information, which he / she delivers on the registration process."


Me, I am not going to do that. So I sent the following e-mail:



"This additional waiver for Ironman Cozumenl represents a significant deviation from the terms and conditions to which I initially agreed when I signed up for the race. It is a material alteration of the transaction and I do not wish to continue under the changed terms, to which I do not agree. I am willing to accept a refund or to receive a deferral to the 2021 race or to a different 2021 race, but requiring me to waive additional rights in exchange for going forward with this race is unacceptable."

I don't know about any of you, but I am not going to risk my health under the current circumstances.

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Re: Ironman Cozumel Demanding Athletes Sign a COVID-19 Waiver/Release [BowwwwBallll] [ In reply to ]
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Then don’t show up for the race. I mean what the fuck? Do you really think that after all we know about the potential risk of spreading and getting Covid - you would sue the race organizers if you showed up and did end up catching it?

For the record, I am racing the Coz70.3 and the last thing I would think if I do catch Covid while there is that it’s someone else’s fault. It is my decision to show up to an event with participants that come from other parts of the world knowing what we know. I will gladly sign the waiver if I decide to race.

Holy shit - make up your mind and either decide to take the risk or stay home. But instead you want to keep the option to blame someone else for your choices. This is why we won’t be able to have these races anymore. Even if we take all the safety precautions someone will want to sue.
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Re: Ironman Cozumel Demanding Athletes Sign a COVID-19 Waiver/Release [BowwwwBallll] [ In reply to ]
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LOL, you don't think every race in the near and far future isn't going to do the same?

So, you were OK "risking your health" without a waiver, but the waiver put you over the edge? That makes no sense unless you've been living under a rock
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Re: Ironman Cozumel Demanding Athletes Sign a COVID-19 Waiver/Release [sdbanker] [ In reply to ]
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I'm with BB on this. No one is forcing him to show up, but if the organizers want to inject additional terms into the agreement, then they also need to be willing to give a full refund to anyone who doesn't want to agree to the new contract.
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Re: Ironman Cozumel Demanding Athletes Sign a COVID-19 Waiver/Release [sdbanker] [ In reply to ]
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sdbanker wrote:
Then don’t show up for the race. I mean what the fuck? Do you really think that after all we know about the potential risk of spreading and getting Covid - you would sue the race organizers if you showed up and did end up catching it?

For the record, I am racing the Coz70.3 and the last thing I would think if I do catch Covid while there is that it’s someone else’s fault. It is my decision to show up to an event with participants that come from other parts of the world knowing what we know. I will gladly sign the waiver if I decide to race.

Holy shit - make up your mind and either decide to take the risk or stay home. But instead you want to keep the option to blame someone else for your choices. This is why we won’t be able to have these races anymore. Even if we take all the safety precautions someone will want to sue.

That's a pretty weird way to describe a unilateral contract modification.
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Re: Ironman Cozumel Demanding Athletes Sign a COVID-19 Waiver/Release [aravilare] [ In reply to ]
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aravilare wrote:
sdbanker wrote:
Then don’t show up for the race. I mean what the fuck? Do you really think that after all we know about the potential risk of spreading and getting Covid - you would sue the race organizers if you showed up and did end up catching it?

For the record, I am racing the Coz70.3 and the last thing I would think if I do catch Covid while there is that it’s someone else’s fault. It is my decision to show up to an event with participants that come from other parts of the world knowing what we know. I will gladly sign the waiver if I decide to race.

Holy shit - make up your mind and either decide to take the risk or stay home. But instead you want to keep the option to blame someone else for your choices. This is why we won’t be able to have these races anymore. Even if we take all the safety precautions someone will want to sue.

That's a pretty weird way to describe a unilateral contract modification.

Is it though? I mean what do you expect from a multi national corporation facing a pandemic after “contracts” have been issued. You signed up to participate in something with inherent risks to begin with. Those risks were further defined by forces outside of the event organizers control and to protect themselves from litigation they update the terms of the agreements allow you to continue to participate.

That said - I do agree that if you choose to not accept the risks associated with the updated terms you should have to option to cancel and get a refund or deferral to a later date. Perhaps that is what the intent of the OP was and I misread his intentions but it seemed to me that the reason he was no longer racing wasn’t the change in circumstance more than it was the lack of recourse should something happen. If I read it wrong I do apologize
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Re: Ironman Cozumel Demanding Athletes Sign a COVID-19 Waiver/Release [BowwwwBallll] [ In reply to ]
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Bloody lawyers...

I think he’s right though. Significant alteration to contract, and suggests they recognise a significant risk but are not taking extra precautions or willing to take the hit to cancel/postpone.
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Re: Ironman Cozumel Demanding Athletes Sign a COVID-19 Waiver/Release [BowwwwBallll] [ In reply to ]
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BowwwwBallll wrote:
I received an e-mail from ACTIVE entitled "Re: Reminder: Sign your waivers for 2020 IRONMAN COZUMEL," and I thought to myself, "Self, you signed all your waivers, otherwise they would not let you complete your registration - what could this be about?"


So I clicked on the link, which took me to a page entitled "COVID-19 Waiver."


In essence, the race organizers (and presumably IM the corporate entity) want to go forward with the race, but want competitors to waive the following risks:


"Risks of personal health and participation. The risk of contracting communicable diseases, including, among others, COVID-19, from other people (including, among others, any co-participant; spectator; organizing staff, representative, volunteer or contractor; and / or any other person (s) before, during and / or after the Event and other activities The risk that a participant's mental, physical or emotional condition (including any use or abuse of alcohol or medications, whether prescription or open access) is either whether or not it has been disclosed, whether or not it is known, combined with participation in these activities may result in injury, damage, death, or some other loss.Although the Organizer may review a participant's medical information, which he / she delivers on the registration process."


Me, I am not going to do that. So I sent the following e-mail:



"This additional waiver for Ironman Cozumenl represents a significant deviation from the terms and conditions to which I initially agreed when I signed up for the race. It is a material alteration of the transaction and I do not wish to continue under the changed terms, to which I do not agree. I am willing to accept a refund or to receive a deferral to the 2021 race or to a different 2021 race, but requiring me to waive additional rights in exchange for going forward with this race is unacceptable."

I don't know about any of you, but I am not going to risk my health under the current circumstances.

Jesus how self important. Of course they need to protect themselves or some dumbass will sue them if they get Covid.
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Re: Ironman Cozumel Demanding Athletes Sign a COVID-19 Waiver/Release [BowwwwBallll] [ In reply to ]
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Smart move, especially considering this:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8vy0n2uUrUY
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Re: Ironman Cozumel Demanding Athletes Sign a COVID-19 Waiver/Release [BowwwwBallll] [ In reply to ]
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If a race goes, I'm racing

No worries
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Re: Ironman Cozumel Demanding Athletes Sign a COVID-19 Waiver/Release [Calvin386] [ In reply to ]
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Calvin386 wrote:
If a race goes, I'm racing

No worries

Great! So you race, have a great performance, and then come home, where that might be. On return, you won't be near family, friends, coworkers, neighbors, essential workers, public officials, or other people who might have compromised immune systems or who might be connected to people who have compromised immune systems. Just trying to get my head around the desire to go to a major race in a time of pandemic.

My only fault with Cozumel's release is that if they require such a release regarding Covid, then they probably shouldn't be hosting the event.
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Re: Ironman Cozumel Demanding Athletes Sign a COVID-19 Waiver/Release [snail] [ In reply to ]
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snail wrote:
Smart move, especially considering this:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8vy0n2uUrUY

Thanks for this video. Sucks, but good to watch. The viral myocarditis aspect is terrifying. I suffered idiopathic (presumed viral) myocarditis event in 2009 and it took me from a competitive AGer near the front end to walking for fitness like old ladies at the mall. Given my pre-existing condition I'm terrified of contracting COVID now, but myself aside, if a substantial portion of those who get infected and recover have suffered viral myocarditis as this guy has, then there are going to be a lot of people whose athletic careers are terminated, as mine was.
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Re: Ironman Cozumel Demanding Athletes Sign a COVID-19 Waiver/Release [Titanflexr] [ In reply to ]
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Agree.

Imagine if the announcement was instead that the course had been modified to include an interstate highway, and that the highway was not closed to traffic, but you’d be riding in the shoulder.

And Imagine that they acknowledged the inherent risk of this change and they were asking you now to sign another waiver of liability should you be hit by a car on the interstate due to the course change. I think a subset of reasonable folks would race, and in all likelihood, they’d be just fine on race day.

Another subset of reasonable people might deem the risk too high, feel put off by the additional waiver after already paying registration fees and signing at registration, and might ask instead for a refund.
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Re: Ironman Cozumel Demanding Athletes Sign a COVID-19 Waiver/Release [null-and-void] [ In reply to ]
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null-and-void wrote:
Calvin386 wrote:
If a race goes, I'm racing

No worries


Great! So you race, have a great performance, and then come home, where that might be. On return, you won't be near family, friends, coworkers, neighbors, essential workers, public officials, or other people who might have compromised immune systems or who might be connected to people who have compromised immune systems. Just trying to get my head around the desire to go to a major race in a time of pandemic.

My only fault with Cozumel's release is that if they require such a release regarding Covid, then they probably shouldn't be hosting the event.

t's a weird thing.... My personal experience with this pandemic is vastly different than what I read and hear.

I go to work everyday where 8500 people work indoors in close quarters. Very little is different from before the pandemic besides masks which hardly anyone wears correctly. There are no pandemic related issues that would be anymore than the normal seasonal sickness in a place this size

I go to the gym 4 days a week since May 1. No masks. Gym is almost full (not quite pre-pandemic numbers), basketball courts, treadmills, pool, weight areas are being used with normal courtesy cleaning. No issues

My parents are in their 70's along with aunts in their 80's. They have also been living life as normal (Church, stores etc...) with no issues.

The past few weekends I attended multiple graduation parties. They were put on as normal with no issues.

I train outside as normal including runs in the park that is being used normally by others who are exercising and enjoying the outdoors. I would say that the numbers are down from pre-pandemic levels. No one is wearing masks and I would say this is the place where I see the least social distancing in a public setting.

Right or wrong... I have paid little attention to the "hysteria" surrounding the pandemic. I have never worn a mask outside of where required by my workplace like any other required PPE. I am respectful of those who are more concerned about this virus. I do not get in their personal space and avoid places that may bring me in close contact with those who may be uncomfortable with someone not wearing a mask. However, most places that I frequent, about 25% are wearing masks.

I don't know one person who has or has had C19 nor anyone who knows anyone who has or has had C19
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Re: Ironman Cozumel Demanding Athletes Sign a COVID-19 Waiver/Release [Calvin386] [ In reply to ]
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!remindme 180 days
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Re: Ironman Cozumel Demanding Athletes Sign a COVID-19 Waiver/Release [BowwwwBallll] [ In reply to ]
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Your response is legitimate, but so is their request for a waiver. It’s your personal choice not to race. And it’s their choice to try to mitigate legal risk if others choose to race.
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Re: Ironman Cozumel Demanding Athletes Sign a COVID-19 Waiver/Release [null-and-void] [ In reply to ]
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null-and-void wrote:
Calvin386 wrote:
If a race goes, I'm racing

No worries


Great! So you race, have a great performance, and then come home, where that might be. On return, you won't be near family, friends, coworkers, neighbors, essential workers, public officials, or other people who might have compromised immune systems or who might be connected to people who have compromised immune systems. Just trying to get my head around the desire to go to a major race in a time of pandemic.

My only fault with Cozumel's release is that if they require such a release regarding Covid, then they probably shouldn't be hosting the event.


I think its a GIVEN that if you participate in a race in this time period without a vaccine, you are accepting the risk of getting Covid than if you stayed home and social distanced. And to ask that people sign a waiver is understandable because you're putting yourself into a situation of higher risk just by participating in the event. If you aren't willing to sign a waiver, then why even show up to the event????
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Re: Ironman Cozumel Demanding Athletes Sign a COVID-19 Waiver/Release [cestmoi] [ In reply to ]
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So if they want to change the terms after both parties agreed to the initial set of terms, does this not mean that IMCOZ needs to offer a full refund for those not wanting to accept the new terms? I completely understand the need to protect themselves with the new threat, but just curious from a legal/contractual aspect since I don't recall seeing this type of request from my other IM races in the US.

Cheers, Ray
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Re: Ironman Cozumel Demanding Athletes Sign a COVID-19 Waiver/Release [cestmoi] [ In reply to ]
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cestmoi wrote:
null-and-void wrote:
Calvin386 wrote:
If a race goes, I'm racing

No worries


Great! So you race, have a great performance, and then come home, where that might be. On return, you won't be near family, friends, coworkers, neighbors, essential workers, public officials, or other people who might have compromised immune systems or who might be connected to people who have compromised immune systems. Just trying to get my head around the desire to go to a major race in a time of pandemic.

My only fault with Cozumel's release is that if they require such a release regarding Covid, then they probably shouldn't be hosting the event.



I think its a GIVEN that if you participate in a race in this time period without a vaccine, you are accepting the risk of getting Covid than if you stayed home and social distanced. And to ask that people sign a waiver is understandable because you're putting yourself into a situation of higher risk just by participating in the event. If you aren't willing to sign a waiver, then why even show up to the event????


I'm not disagreeing with you on this point. My issue is that I can't understand why one would want to participate in an event like IMCZ when there is so much personal risk and risk to others. While a given participant might be willing to accept the risk, that does not protect those with whom he/she contacts after the race and return home. IOW, is it fair to others that one's willingness to assume risk has potential impact on those who are not. And the driving on a public road is not a proper analogy to the potential risk of contracting a virus like Covid.

I am fortunate to live in a region of the country in which social distancing and masking is taken much more seriously than in the areas of the country that now are seeing exploding increases in Covid cases. Why the rush to race in such a risky situation? It's only August 1, and we have north of 150K deaths, based on the likely underreported data by the feds. Remember in March the worst case scenario was projected to 250K deaths? We'll hit that before election day.

Heck, look at the fiasco of professional baseball, with its strict protocols. Why would we think that the average athlete off the street would do any better?
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Re: Ironman Cozumel Demanding Athletes Sign a COVID-19 Waiver/Release [Calvin386] [ In reply to ]
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Calvin386 wrote:
null-and-void wrote:
Calvin386 wrote:
If a race goes, I'm racing

No worries


Great! So you race, have a great performance, and then come home, where that might be. On return, you won't be near family, friends, coworkers, neighbors, essential workers, public officials, or other people who might have compromised immune systems or who might be connected to people who have compromised immune systems. Just trying to get my head around the desire to go to a major race in a time of pandemic.

My only fault with Cozumel's release is that if they require such a release regarding Covid, then they probably shouldn't be hosting the event.


t's a weird thing.... My personal experience with this pandemic is vastly different than what I read and hear.

I go to work everyday where 8500 people work indoors in close quarters. Very little is different from before the pandemic besides masks which hardly anyone wears correctly. There are no pandemic related issues that would be anymore than the normal seasonal sickness in a place this size

I go to the gym 4 days a week since May 1. No masks. Gym is almost full (not quite pre-pandemic numbers), basketball courts, treadmills, pool, weight areas are being used with normal courtesy cleaning. No issues

My parents are in their 70's along with aunts in their 80's. They have also been living life as normal (Church, stores etc...) with no issues.

The past few weekends I attended multiple graduation parties. They were put on as normal with no issues.

I train outside as normal including runs in the park that is being used normally by others who are exercising and enjoying the outdoors. I would say that the numbers are down from pre-pandemic levels. No one is wearing masks and I would say this is the place where I see the least social distancing in a public setting.

Right or wrong... I have paid little attention to the "hysteria" surrounding the pandemic. I have never worn a mask outside of where required by my workplace like any other required PPE. I am respectful of those who are more concerned about this virus. I do not get in their personal space and avoid places that may bring me in close contact with those who may be uncomfortable with someone not wearing a mask. However, most places that I frequent, about 25% are wearing masks.

I don't know one person who has or has had C19 nor anyone who knows anyone who has or has had C19

Where do you live? You don't have to be specific. Just name a country....that can make a huge difference.

My n=1.......I run my own company & have 33 employees (including myself). I've had 2 employees test positive (1 is back at work. 1 is still under quarantine). We know through contact tracing that the second didn't get it from the first. So my experience is drastically different than yours.

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.
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Re: Ironman Cozumel Demanding Athletes Sign a COVID-19 Waiver/Release [BowwwwBallll] [ In reply to ]
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I'm not sure what your gripe is, this is a very standard legal process. You know that thing you don't read when you sign up for the race, yeah the waiver has a lot of shit on it. This is just really an addendum.

Hooker training for the Sport of Scrum-Halves [Triathlon]
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Re: Ironman Cozumel Demanding Athletes Sign a COVID-19 Waiver/Release [BowwwwBallll] [ In reply to ]
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It's funny all this arguing and bickering about these races being on or off, now waivers, etc.

How fucking hard is it for IM to just do the right thing and send a blast email asking athletes what they want to do? It's supposed to be about us, not their corporate greed. Right?

Why are we pretending that this entire mess isn't IM's doing? Complete lack of transparency and communication.

Do the right thing. You want to race? Good. Sign the waiver and get on with it already.

Not ready yet? Fine. Defer to a time/place when you feel ready.

Scared shitless because of some pre-existing issue? No worries. Here's a refund and see you in the future.

Is it that hard? Really? Tired of this bullshit already.
Last edited by: soslow1387: Aug 1, 20 7:46
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Re: Ironman Cozumel Demanding Athletes Sign a COVID-19 Waiver/Release [japarker24] [ In reply to ]
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It appears Calvin lives near Louisville, KY or at least did a year ago -https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...e_P7017175/#p7017175

There are multiple counties in KY that have yet to reach 20 total cases according to NYT stats.
Last edited by: Mark Lemmon: Aug 1, 20 8:42
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Re: Ironman Cozumel Demanding Athletes Sign a COVID-19 Waiver/Release [BowwwwBallll] [ In reply to ]
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Everyone arguing about a race that isn’t going to happen.

Favorite Gear: Dimond | TriRig | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
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Re: Ironman Cozumel Demanding Athletes Sign a COVID-19 Waiver/Release [Mark Lemmon] [ In reply to ]
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Mark Lemmon wrote:
It appears Calvin lives near Louisville, KY or at least did a year ago -https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...e_P7017175/#p7017175

There are multiple counties in KY that have yet to reach 20 total cases according to NYT stats.

Which is great until they don’t and then unfortunately their whole building may get it...

We’re multinational primarily US. I think we’ve had at least 50 cases and 1 death out of the 17000 people. We’re not going back until sometime in 2021 at least. My guess would be early August at best.

-----------------------------------------------------------
De Soto Sport Athlete
Formerly Draketriathlon
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