i think swimming 4k is plenty. ;)
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Re: Ironman Canada 2008: the pro-men's race from my perspective [Fleck]
[ In reply to ]
Re: Ironman Canada 2008: the pro-men's race from my perspective [Khai]
[ In reply to ]
I am in the process of interviewing Jimmy Riccitello about the drafting problem and he is aware of this thread. Jimmy also said he was going to forward this thread to the ref in question.
H
H
Re: Ironman Canada 2008: the pro-men's race from my perspective [fbrissette]
[ In reply to ]
I think you're wrong.
Guy A passes me (his front wheel is 1 cm in front of mine) I allow him to continue to slowly go by. When his rear wheel is 1 cm past my front, l continue to allow him to move ahead but I'm under no obligation to let the next guy past me, until his front wheel is 1 cm in front of mine, which should take some time. If the whole line is moving fast its no big deal to let them by, just ride your pace and they will be gone. If the front guy goes past then slows to your riding pace (pretty common), move over slightly when he's past and let him drift a legal distance away. You may have to speed up a bit if the next guy tries to pass you to signal to him that you have no intention of giving up your position.
Styrrell
Guy A passes me (his front wheel is 1 cm in front of mine) I allow him to continue to slowly go by. When his rear wheel is 1 cm past my front, l continue to allow him to move ahead but I'm under no obligation to let the next guy past me, until his front wheel is 1 cm in front of mine, which should take some time. If the whole line is moving fast its no big deal to let them by, just ride your pace and they will be gone. If the front guy goes past then slows to your riding pace (pretty common), move over slightly when he's past and let him drift a legal distance away. You may have to speed up a bit if the next guy tries to pass you to signal to him that you have no intention of giving up your position.
Styrrell
Re: Ironman Canada 2008: the pro-men's race from my perspective [M~]
[ In reply to ]
i think swimming 4k is plenty.
The sports pioneers and RD's are not stupid. Smart men/women, all.
Over the years in my casual polling of people who are thinking about getting into triathlon, the number one barrier to them and their greatest fear is the swim! It's rather ironic, because once they get into the sport, for many, it becomes the least of their concerns!
Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
The sports pioneers and RD's are not stupid. Smart men/women, all.
Over the years in my casual polling of people who are thinking about getting into triathlon, the number one barrier to them and their greatest fear is the swim! It's rather ironic, because once they get into the sport, for many, it becomes the least of their concerns!
Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Re: Ironman Canada 2008: the pro-men's race from my perspective [smtyrrell99]
[ In reply to ]
Guy A passes me (his front wheel is 1 cm in front of mine) I allow him to continue to slowly go by. When his rear wheel is 1 cm past my front, l continue to allow him to move ahead but I'm under no obligation to let the next guy past me, until his front wheel is 1 cm in front of mine, which should take some time.
First of all, you have been passed when the leading edge of the FRONT wheel of the passing rider is ahead of yours. According to USAT rules you must IMMEDIATELY move out of the draft zone. By doing so, the next cyclist in line will enter your draft zone and will show a progression toward you (since you are actively dropping out of the draft zone of the leading cyclist). At that point (and this is the part that many triathletes do not understand), if you suddenly reaccelerate to avoid being passed by the guy behind you, you are blocking him and can be called for a violation. So again, if there is a line of cyclists riding at minimum legal distance that are passing you, you have no choice but to drop at the end of the line. Then you can decide to pass again, but you would have no choice but to pass the entire line (because by passing the last bike in line, you would automatically enter the draft zone of the preceeding bike, which is only legal if you overtake it within the allowed 15 seconds).
Francois in Montreal
First of all, you have been passed when the leading edge of the FRONT wheel of the passing rider is ahead of yours. According to USAT rules you must IMMEDIATELY move out of the draft zone. By doing so, the next cyclist in line will enter your draft zone and will show a progression toward you (since you are actively dropping out of the draft zone of the leading cyclist). At that point (and this is the part that many triathletes do not understand), if you suddenly reaccelerate to avoid being passed by the guy behind you, you are blocking him and can be called for a violation. So again, if there is a line of cyclists riding at minimum legal distance that are passing you, you have no choice but to drop at the end of the line. Then you can decide to pass again, but you would have no choice but to pass the entire line (because by passing the last bike in line, you would automatically enter the draft zone of the preceeding bike, which is only legal if you overtake it within the allowed 15 seconds).
Francois in Montreal
Re: Ironman Canada 2008: the pro-men's race from my perspective [Khai]
[ In reply to ]
Yes, unfortunately she was in my van. I did not know it was her though.
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Re: Ironman Canada 2008: the pro-men's race from my perspective [fbrissette]
[ In reply to ]
Guy A passes me (his front wheel is 1 cm in front of mine) I allow him to continue to slowly go by. When his rear wheel is 1 cm past my front, l continue to allow him to move ahead but I'm under no obligation to let the next guy past me, until his front wheel is 1 cm in front of mine, which should take some time.
First of all, you have been passed when the leading edge of the FRONT wheel of the passing rider is ahead of yours.
Thats exactly what my first line means (by wheel I meant front of wheel) so we are in agreement there.
,According to USAT rules you must IMMEDIATELY move out of the draft zone. By doing so, the next cyclist in line will enter your draft zone and will show a progression toward you (since you are actively dropping out of the draft zone of the leading cyclist). At that point (and this is the part that many triathletes do not understand), if you suddenly reaccelerate to avoid being passed by the guy behind you, you are blocking him and can be called for a violation. So again, if there is a line of cyclists riding at minimum legal distance that are passing you, you have no choice but to drop at the end of the line. Then you can decide to pass again, but you would have no choice but to pass the entire line (because by passing the last bike in line, you would automatically enter the draft zone of the preceeding bike, which is only legal if you overtake it within the allowed 15 seconds).
Your post is only true if a line is exactly at the precise legal limit. In a real race thats not true. Once you have let the first guy pass you and continue to drift back, at some point the next guy will be 2 cm behind you. You are free to duel with him. I've never heard of a rider being given a penalty when he is 2cminto the front guys zone and trying to keep a rider from moving past. In real terms I let the front guy go then when I'm about legal distance behind him, If someone is trying to pass me slowly, I'll stand and accelerate a bit. That signals the next guy that you aren't going to give up your spot easily. Given an officials ability to precisely know the distance to the front rider I don't see a problem if it all occurs +/- 2feet from the back of the draft zone.
Styrrell
First of all, you have been passed when the leading edge of the FRONT wheel of the passing rider is ahead of yours.
Thats exactly what my first line means (by wheel I meant front of wheel) so we are in agreement there.
,According to USAT rules you must IMMEDIATELY move out of the draft zone. By doing so, the next cyclist in line will enter your draft zone and will show a progression toward you (since you are actively dropping out of the draft zone of the leading cyclist). At that point (and this is the part that many triathletes do not understand), if you suddenly reaccelerate to avoid being passed by the guy behind you, you are blocking him and can be called for a violation. So again, if there is a line of cyclists riding at minimum legal distance that are passing you, you have no choice but to drop at the end of the line. Then you can decide to pass again, but you would have no choice but to pass the entire line (because by passing the last bike in line, you would automatically enter the draft zone of the preceeding bike, which is only legal if you overtake it within the allowed 15 seconds).
Your post is only true if a line is exactly at the precise legal limit. In a real race thats not true. Once you have let the first guy pass you and continue to drift back, at some point the next guy will be 2 cm behind you. You are free to duel with him. I've never heard of a rider being given a penalty when he is 2cminto the front guys zone and trying to keep a rider from moving past. In real terms I let the front guy go then when I'm about legal distance behind him, If someone is trying to pass me slowly, I'll stand and accelerate a bit. That signals the next guy that you aren't going to give up your spot easily. Given an officials ability to precisely know the distance to the front rider I don't see a problem if it all occurs +/- 2feet from the back of the draft zone.
Styrrell
Re: Ironman Canada 2008: the pro-men's race from my perspective [Fleck]
[ In reply to ]
Still is for me(starting 3rd yr in the sport), I have trouble focusing in open waters but at the same time my swim has improved enough to where I dont worry about it as much... When it comes to races I just suck it up somehow
"Fear is what drives you in the last part of a marathon in an Ironman. The body is depleted and the mind is fuzzy. Short course racing is driven by power and finese at the end of a race, Ironman demands so much more and is driven by will and mental strength." Chris McCormack
10/28/08 Dev Paul had 400w FTP!!!
"Fear is what drives you in the last part of a marathon in an Ironman. The body is depleted and the mind is fuzzy. Short course racing is driven by power and finese at the end of a race, Ironman demands so much more and is driven by will and mental strength." Chris McCormack
10/28/08 Dev Paul had 400w FTP!!!
Re: Ironman Canada 2008: the pro-men's race from my perspective [justhavefun]
[ In reply to ]
No worries man - I call it like I see it. I'm all for drafters getting called out, but those who were riding clean ought to be recognized as well. It's sad that saying "congrats to x for riding clean" is even necessary - one would think it'd be like saying "congrats to x for swimming before getting on the bike". Unfortunately, that is not yet the case and there are enough cheaters to merit accolades for those that do play by the rules.
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Get Fitter!
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Re: Ironman Canada 2008: the pro-men's race from my perspective [CaptainCanada]
[ In reply to ]
Great... now she'll listen to me even less!
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Get Fitter!
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Re: Ironman Canada 2008: the pro-men's race from my perspective [Herbert]
[ In reply to ]
Herbert, shall be interesting to see what he says now, since I have talked to him for a long time in the past about this.
I have also been to a couple of official training meetings, and have sat on the back of a motorcycle. It is SO easy to comment.
BUT, how many folks have spent the time to become an official? It is NOT as easy as it sounds. And no one wants to
give out a penality and make a customer upset. Now, in a lot of ways, littering, IMO, is a much bigger issue than drafting,
since we only have races when a community allows us to use their property. When we trash it, well, having no race the next
year sure solves the drafting issue.
So, how many folks who are commenting have ever been an official at a race? Yep, VERY few.
Without the officials, assuming this is a rule that the RD's REALLY want to enforce, nothing will improve.
But as been posted MANY times in the past, this whole issue starts with the RD picking a course. If they do not want drafting,
and many folks, they pick a course like Auburn. If they want lots of customers, lets be honest, they find a place where
the course is "easier".
After Jimmy trying different things over the years, I wonder what his thoughts are now. If you start with a pancake flat course, and a single
wave start, IT IS IMPOSSIBLE to not have drafting. Period.
I really like the ideas of 2 races within a race. There are the ones racing for money, awards, etc. They should go first,
and all the officials stay with them. For the other 95%, let them enjoy why they signed up.
Dave
Dave
Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net
Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist
Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
I have also been to a couple of official training meetings, and have sat on the back of a motorcycle. It is SO easy to comment.
BUT, how many folks have spent the time to become an official? It is NOT as easy as it sounds. And no one wants to
give out a penality and make a customer upset. Now, in a lot of ways, littering, IMO, is a much bigger issue than drafting,
since we only have races when a community allows us to use their property. When we trash it, well, having no race the next
year sure solves the drafting issue.
So, how many folks who are commenting have ever been an official at a race? Yep, VERY few.
Without the officials, assuming this is a rule that the RD's REALLY want to enforce, nothing will improve.
But as been posted MANY times in the past, this whole issue starts with the RD picking a course. If they do not want drafting,
and many folks, they pick a course like Auburn. If they want lots of customers, lets be honest, they find a place where
the course is "easier".
After Jimmy trying different things over the years, I wonder what his thoughts are now. If you start with a pancake flat course, and a single
wave start, IT IS IMPOSSIBLE to not have drafting. Period.
I really like the ideas of 2 races within a race. There are the ones racing for money, awards, etc. They should go first,
and all the officials stay with them. For the other 95%, let them enjoy why they signed up.
Dave
Dave
Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net
Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist
Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
Re: Ironman Canada 2008: the pro-men's race from my perspective [h2ofun]
[ In reply to ]
But as been posted MANY times in the past, this whole issue starts with the RD picking a course. If they do not want drafting,
and many folks, they pick a course like Auburn. If they want lots of customers, lets be honest, they find a place where
the course is "easier".
You keep repeating this but it makes no sense and is not true. They don't go searching out course venues for "easy" courses. They put them where they make sense with regards to the calendar, the weather, other races, travel, local communities, etc.
Ironman races will sell out wherever they put them, they don't need to search out easy courses. Are there issues to be addressed? Yes. Race directors searching for easy courses isn't one of them.
Portside Athletics Blog
and many folks, they pick a course like Auburn. If they want lots of customers, lets be honest, they find a place where
the course is "easier".
You keep repeating this but it makes no sense and is not true. They don't go searching out course venues for "easy" courses. They put them where they make sense with regards to the calendar, the weather, other races, travel, local communities, etc.
Ironman races will sell out wherever they put them, they don't need to search out easy courses. Are there issues to be addressed? Yes. Race directors searching for easy courses isn't one of them.
Portside Athletics Blog
Re: Ironman Canada 2008: the pro-men's race from my perspective [SwBkRn44]
[ In reply to ]
Sorry, but an RD COULD search out a course that does make drafting hard if that was their first objective.
It sure would not be mine! Worry about drafting would not even be on my list. The percentage that complain
are SO small compared to the total. So, just my honest opinion, and seems to me the results at races
prove my point.
Now, if IM did their race on the Auburn course, you think it would sell out? How about Silverman?
So, IMO, the RD searches out a course that makes the most customers happy, and them the most money.
This is a business, and what business does not do this?
Dave
Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net
Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist
Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
It sure would not be mine! Worry about drafting would not even be on my list. The percentage that complain
are SO small compared to the total. So, just my honest opinion, and seems to me the results at races
prove my point.
Now, if IM did their race on the Auburn course, you think it would sell out? How about Silverman?
So, IMO, the RD searches out a course that makes the most customers happy, and them the most money.
This is a business, and what business does not do this?
Dave
Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net
Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist
Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
Re: Ironman Canada 2008: the pro-men's race from my perspective [SwBkRn44]
[ In reply to ]
Since H20 is such an expert on IMNA Courses, I'd like to here which ones he has competed in, because no IM course is easy.
Re: Ironman Canada 2008: the pro-men's race from my perspective [h2ofun]
[ In reply to ]
IMO, the RD searches out a course that makes the most customers happy
That's the truth. And a big part of that is a local community that will actively support the race. That is infinitely more important than an easy course so happy customers can draft. I would guess half of the mid-pack finishers don't even know what drafting is and that they could be possibly penalized for it. They are ignorant of the entire controversy I would guess.
There are the pros to whom it matters, the fast age-groupers trying to qualify for Kona and those age-groupers out there battling all day for an honest PB regardless of time. My bet is that many people out there to "do an Ironman" and there is nothing wrong with that, have no idea what drafting is. And honestly, that doesn't bother me too much as they don't effect the outcome of the race in any meaningful way (meaning they are taking prize money or Kona slots away from honest racers).
As for your repeated mentioning of Auburn, no one really cares about a USAT duathlon championship in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, I love duathlons, but comparing them to a WTC/NAS Ironman is ridiculous. Same goes for Silverman, with the Ironman logo and marketing machine an Iron-distance race could sell out in the Vegas area with no problem, although I would assume they wouldn't put it on close to IMAZ. It's not the difficulty of the course that is preventing Silverman from filing up.
Portside Athletics Blog
That's the truth. And a big part of that is a local community that will actively support the race. That is infinitely more important than an easy course so happy customers can draft. I would guess half of the mid-pack finishers don't even know what drafting is and that they could be possibly penalized for it. They are ignorant of the entire controversy I would guess.
There are the pros to whom it matters, the fast age-groupers trying to qualify for Kona and those age-groupers out there battling all day for an honest PB regardless of time. My bet is that many people out there to "do an Ironman" and there is nothing wrong with that, have no idea what drafting is. And honestly, that doesn't bother me too much as they don't effect the outcome of the race in any meaningful way (meaning they are taking prize money or Kona slots away from honest racers).
As for your repeated mentioning of Auburn, no one really cares about a USAT duathlon championship in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, I love duathlons, but comparing them to a WTC/NAS Ironman is ridiculous. Same goes for Silverman, with the Ironman logo and marketing machine an Iron-distance race could sell out in the Vegas area with no problem, although I would assume they wouldn't put it on close to IMAZ. It's not the difficulty of the course that is preventing Silverman from filing up.
Portside Athletics Blog
Re: Ironman Canada 2008: the pro-men's race from my perspective [CURRY]
[ In reply to ]
Who's riding Johnyo's bike? :)
Kyle Marcotte
Team Timex Multisport
http://teamtimex.timexblogs.com/ - http://calgarytriandbike.blogspot.com/ - http://twitter.com/dukyle/
Kyle Marcotte
Team Timex Multisport
http://teamtimex.timexblogs.com/ - http://calgarytriandbike.blogspot.com/ - http://twitter.com/dukyle/
Re: Ironman Canada 2008: the pro-men's race from my perspective [dukyle]
[ In reply to ]
acually, on this pic, i just made a VERY sneaky pass on MAt lieto before the turn around so i would be first to grad the special need bag....
he gave me plenty of road.... but...as i did the turn around... i forgot that i was running a front hooker brake that as NO POWER!!!! so i went straight and pass the turn around and lock my back wheel,. ...mat was supr nice to give me room as we made the turn together at he same time as i fuckup the turnaround....
long story short... he went from 40m behind me to rght behind me as i did a extra 20m of riding!!!! we grabbed our bag and he rode away from all of us...
now, if you were to post the other pic.... THAT one speak for itself...
Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
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he gave me plenty of road.... but...as i did the turn around... i forgot that i was running a front hooker brake that as NO POWER!!!! so i went straight and pass the turn around and lock my back wheel,. ...mat was supr nice to give me room as we made the turn together at he same time as i fuckup the turnaround....
long story short... he went from 40m behind me to rght behind me as i did a extra 20m of riding!!!! we grabbed our bag and he rode away from all of us...
now, if you were to post the other pic.... THAT one speak for itself...
Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
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Re: Ironman Canada 2008: the pro-men's race from my perspective [jonnyo]
[ In reply to ]
What photo are you talking about?
Kyle Marcotte
Team Timex Multisport
http://teamtimex.timexblogs.com/ - http://calgarytriandbike.blogspot.com/ - http://twitter.com/dukyle/
Kyle Marcotte
Team Timex Multisport
http://teamtimex.timexblogs.com/ - http://calgarytriandbike.blogspot.com/ - http://twitter.com/dukyle/
Re: Ironman Canada 2008: the pro-men's race from my perspective [dukyle]
[ In reply to ]
I'm glad Jonnyo provided clarification on that, as I thought it might be a sighting of the first P4C tandem.
Re: Ironman Canada 2008: the pro-men's race from my perspective [dukyle]
[ In reply to ]
YEP that one.........Berhnard did PLENTY of this.
Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram
Re: Ironman Canada 2008: the pro-men's race from my perspective [CaptainCanada]
[ In reply to ]
AH! I wondered if that was you! I wasn't in much of a mood to be finding out though...
Well shit. Nice to meet you. Hopefully next year we will meet under much better circumstances!
______________________________________
I know I'm promiscuous, but in a classy way
Well shit. Nice to meet you. Hopefully next year we will meet under much better circumstances!
______________________________________
I know I'm promiscuous, but in a classy way
Re: Ironman Canada 2008: the pro-men's race from my perspective [Khai]
[ In reply to ]
That suggests I ever listened to you at all :P
______________________________________
I know I'm promiscuous, but in a classy way
______________________________________
I know I'm promiscuous, but in a classy way
Re: Ironman Canada 2008: the pro-men's race from my perspective [cuds]
[ In reply to ]
Damn, girl... Why you gotta do me like that?
<If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough>
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Re: Ironman Canada 2008: the pro-men's race from my perspective [dukyle]
[ In reply to ]
This was my 10th Ironman race, and I've never felt so disgruntled with cheating. At IMCDA this year I noticed a number of women who either didn't body mark or did get it done, and rubbed their numbers off. I'm assuming they do this to hide their age. They also wrapped their race bib up in their belt so their name and number was hidden. As an athlete competing for an age group placing, this frustrates the hell out of me. I would love for the others in my AG to not know my age and name, but in the same breath, I value knowing who they are and I'm competing with them, so keep it fair and leave it visible. Is it against the rules not to body mark? I don't suspect it is but maybe it should be.
Drafting... A pack of men riding 5 abreast at the front and several deep went by me. (There was one little gal sitting in the middle, but it was mostly men.) An official came by, and told them to be careful not to pass to far out into the lane of traffic as there were cars on the road. Nothing said about the pack. A few minutes later a female official came by and said "what's going on here boys? Let's break it up." She didn't give a penalty and they didn't move out of the pack at all. I pulled back and lost them but was frustrated.
After the out and back I watched a fellow draft for a long time as I worked my way up to him. Once passing I said "Hey Jeremy... how's the draft? You've been sitting on that wheel for a long time." He looked at me all bug eyed and took off riding hard in what I consider an admition of guilt. A few minutes later I was with another group of fellows. They would pass me on the uphill and I would take them on the downhill. I made a comment about it... a happy kind of "we'll be seeing each other a bunch if we keep this up" comment. The next time one fellow passed me he suggested I join his wheel. I said no thanks and continued on, but was very surprised.
Finally, at the awards presentation I was told by an athlete who placed above me in our AG that the second place athlete was in a large pack on the bike when she was passed. This athlete then went on to run a stellar marathon and hold on for second. I have no idea how long she was in the pack, or how much she drafted, or even if it was true, but it made me realize how much people are willing to do to get that Kona spot, which she did.
I don't believe it's impossible not to draft to Osoyoos, and I'm in the masses. I work hard to stay out of it, but also expend a lot of energy forcing a pass when I enter the draft zone. Thank you Scott for being honest and opening up the topic. I think your comment on "if being in the draft zone meant you had to work harder then everyone would make sure they stayed out of it." (That's not the exact quote but the gist of the comment is hopefully there.)
On a final "rule" note... why does NA sports put so many finishers running down the chute with 2 kids, a wife, parent and a baby etc. on the video when it's against the rules to do so? I have 2 daughters, both between the allowable ages of 6 and 16 who I would have loved to have finish with me. Because of the rules, I finished with one in CDA and one in Canada. I'm lucky I had 2 options so they both got a chance. I'm good with the rule allowing one child, but if you're going to make it, why highlight the number of folks breaking it all in the name of a warm mushy finishers video. It's odd I think.
Maybe every race director should take a page from Wade at Great White North Half Ironman. Drafters names are highlighted in green on results and labeled with the word "penalty" AND they have to run a 1k lap before they head out on the course. He hits drafters where it hurts them most... in the run split. He's serious about a clean race.
Congrats to all the athletes who completed Canada riding a clean race on their own power. To the rest of you, who purposefully cheated, I wish you many flats and broken chains in your future races.
Drafting... A pack of men riding 5 abreast at the front and several deep went by me. (There was one little gal sitting in the middle, but it was mostly men.) An official came by, and told them to be careful not to pass to far out into the lane of traffic as there were cars on the road. Nothing said about the pack. A few minutes later a female official came by and said "what's going on here boys? Let's break it up." She didn't give a penalty and they didn't move out of the pack at all. I pulled back and lost them but was frustrated.
After the out and back I watched a fellow draft for a long time as I worked my way up to him. Once passing I said "Hey Jeremy... how's the draft? You've been sitting on that wheel for a long time." He looked at me all bug eyed and took off riding hard in what I consider an admition of guilt. A few minutes later I was with another group of fellows. They would pass me on the uphill and I would take them on the downhill. I made a comment about it... a happy kind of "we'll be seeing each other a bunch if we keep this up" comment. The next time one fellow passed me he suggested I join his wheel. I said no thanks and continued on, but was very surprised.
Finally, at the awards presentation I was told by an athlete who placed above me in our AG that the second place athlete was in a large pack on the bike when she was passed. This athlete then went on to run a stellar marathon and hold on for second. I have no idea how long she was in the pack, or how much she drafted, or even if it was true, but it made me realize how much people are willing to do to get that Kona spot, which she did.
I don't believe it's impossible not to draft to Osoyoos, and I'm in the masses. I work hard to stay out of it, but also expend a lot of energy forcing a pass when I enter the draft zone. Thank you Scott for being honest and opening up the topic. I think your comment on "if being in the draft zone meant you had to work harder then everyone would make sure they stayed out of it." (That's not the exact quote but the gist of the comment is hopefully there.)
On a final "rule" note... why does NA sports put so many finishers running down the chute with 2 kids, a wife, parent and a baby etc. on the video when it's against the rules to do so? I have 2 daughters, both between the allowable ages of 6 and 16 who I would have loved to have finish with me. Because of the rules, I finished with one in CDA and one in Canada. I'm lucky I had 2 options so they both got a chance. I'm good with the rule allowing one child, but if you're going to make it, why highlight the number of folks breaking it all in the name of a warm mushy finishers video. It's odd I think.
Maybe every race director should take a page from Wade at Great White North Half Ironman. Drafters names are highlighted in green on results and labeled with the word "penalty" AND they have to run a 1k lap before they head out on the course. He hits drafters where it hurts them most... in the run split. He's serious about a clean race.
Congrats to all the athletes who completed Canada riding a clean race on their own power. To the rest of you, who purposefully cheated, I wish you many flats and broken chains in your future races.
Re: Ironman Canada 2008: the pro-men's race from my perspective [jonnyo]
[ In reply to ]
Thanks for that John, I appreciate the class!!
I was wondering what happened on that turn? I hope I did give you the room you needed, for a sec I thought we where going to have an embarrassing crash!! That is all I need, take out the local favorite!!
Oh, and I do appreciate the pictures, and how that can seem to prove different things. But, can i suggest something? Let's just stop this craziness. We who raced our own race know if we did or didn't cheat. Although this picture makes it look like I am right on jonny o' he explains it well. What if Jonny wasn't as class as he is? We would interpret this as a blatant cheat, and what I have worked hardest for in my racing, racing with integrity, would be lost to those reading this post. Pictures can tell a completely different story from reality.
Please just leave it to us, I have started the ball rolling and will get together with some of those who raced on Sunday and have a calm discussion with the officials. We are professionals, and we have to take care of this as professionals, no more bashing on public sites. I am glad we are all so passionate about legal racing, and looking forward to this thread encouraging us to take steps to make that possible.
Thanks for your time and support in this matter- Matt Lieto
-Matt Lieto
I was wondering what happened on that turn? I hope I did give you the room you needed, for a sec I thought we where going to have an embarrassing crash!! That is all I need, take out the local favorite!!
Oh, and I do appreciate the pictures, and how that can seem to prove different things. But, can i suggest something? Let's just stop this craziness. We who raced our own race know if we did or didn't cheat. Although this picture makes it look like I am right on jonny o' he explains it well. What if Jonny wasn't as class as he is? We would interpret this as a blatant cheat, and what I have worked hardest for in my racing, racing with integrity, would be lost to those reading this post. Pictures can tell a completely different story from reality.
Please just leave it to us, I have started the ball rolling and will get together with some of those who raced on Sunday and have a calm discussion with the officials. We are professionals, and we have to take care of this as professionals, no more bashing on public sites. I am glad we are all so passionate about legal racing, and looking forward to this thread encouraging us to take steps to make that possible.
Thanks for your time and support in this matter- Matt Lieto
-Matt Lieto