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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [kny] [ In reply to ]
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Sorry sorry... it's 2,550 on this pdf. Had a brain fart.

http://www.ironman.com/~/media/bd49d7ebd59d4f97bc1424e77a1e22ac/arizona%20participant%20list%203.pdf




So 2550 * 700 is $1.78mm in entry fees. That's the total professional purse for the year in revenue from one race...
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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Bryancd wrote:
It is worth noting that no where in #5 is there any specific threat of retaliation against pro's. There is a request to not use social media to air grievances.


It is implied. There stands a policy of retaliation for going against big brothers wishes.



(ETA: have been slowly working my thru the thread and noticed Brandon updated you)

_____________________________________________________________________
34 kona qualifiers 2006-'18 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
Foras Maps: Race Discovery made easy | Garmin Glycogen Use App | Garmin Fat Use App
Last edited by: MarkyV: Sep 26, 14 13:30
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [DJRed] [ In reply to ]
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What I am talking about requires you to take a look at how can WTC grow it's revenues?

Professional racing is no where near it's potential

If WTC can grow the Professional racing line of it's business (the growth would be very profitable to them). Most likely this growth will require TV or more media coverage of some type. To get to that point they need to develop that line of their business and that will require investment. Like in many businesses this is a risk and it might not pay off. However in professional racing's current state it is not good enough to get additional TV coverage outside of Kona and from reading that letter 70.3 WC.

WTC is in the business of making money and currently it makes a lot of money from us age group athletes, which it has earned. My question is how much more can the age group revenue grow? For example there are a lot of 140.6 Ironman races in North America that have open registration right now and that are not sold out. I don't by any means think age group racing is at capacity, I think as Messick has stated their opportunity over seas looks really good.

However, all that being said, the real big money to be made is if WTC can get more races on TV and bring in those ad dollars. It all works in a cycle, people see the race on TV (a lot of us have been inspired by the NBC broadcast and now want to go to Kona) they then somehow find their way to triathlon, then find their way to Ironman. While to a certain degree the pro race isn't "pretty", those people are out there suffering a ton, but to the guy on the couch at home they don't know that. They also don't know that when they do their first Ironman there is a good chance they spend a good portion of their race on the run just shuffling along, looking nothing like the pro's they see on TV. These Pro's are marketing that look of the Ironman that a lot of age groupers in some way admire or aspire to be. Andreas Ralert, Crowie or Mirinda running in Kona are examples that come to mind.

Anyway WTC is about making money and growing their business. If they can grow the professional racing area that would be a big deal for the sport in general and could be very lucrative to their bottom line which is what they are all about.

Remember many other businesses we all love would grow, bike shops are an example and all the companies that sell us products. As they say, a rising tide lifts all boats. Ironman is that tide.
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Rappstar wrote:
oceanswimmer wrote:
So how exactly do they expect their pro athletes to "volunteer"?


WTC will provide both financial and logistical support for the volunteer efforts. Things like travel, getting posters printed, etc. WTC is willing to help with that and also to help find opportunities where the event organizer would also help in this regard. Athletes will not be expected to "foot the bill" for volunteer efforts; they are expected to give their time.

A lot has been made about how WTC needs to do more "athlete development." I agree. But I don't think that it should be racing-type development. It should be "how to be more professional" development. That's what this is.

I think it's a huge win for pros. This is exactly the sort of thing that is a very clear value add to sponsors. Much more clear than a race result...

But what about other race organizations that could benefit from pros volunteering at their events? For example, WTC Pro A is asked by the triathlon club in his hometown to do a swim clinic for beginners. Since it's old friends, Pro A is doing it for basically nothing - they cover Pro A's expenses. WTC suggests that Pro A does an appearance at an WTC-approved event the same day, a couple of states away, and they'll comp travel expenses. Which does Pro A do?

If Pro A chooses to stick with the locals, does he piss off the WTC? Do they need to approve his volunteering?

If Pro A does the WTC event, the locals will be disappointed. Does that really do anything to help the health of "our sport" as Mr. Messick seems to like to describe it? I don't think so.

Travis Rassat
Vector Cycle Works
Noblesville, IN
BikeFit Instructor | FMS | F.I.S.T. | IBFI
Toughman Triathlon Series Ambassador
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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I know I have said it many times but will say it again. Anyone who wants to get more "something", needs to get more visible and market themselves. I know a lot of the pros just feel that somehow by just showing
up to a race they have done their part. Sorry, does nothing for me.

As I continue to say, my wife and I volunteer at maybe 20 to 30 races a season. We are visible. Folks talk with us all the time. For Challenge Rancho Cordova, we both will help in the morning at T1.
Then we drive over to T2 where she helps the rest of the day and I will be doing the run portion of a relay team. Will this be the best for my race? Nope. But races need help.

I never would enter a race because of a Pro. (Now, if it were Lance, yep. If it were some of the ITU studs like I saw race at Edmonton, yes). But I still believe that anyone who wants to be able
to say they can add value for a sponsor, get out there and be visible. Help before the race. Help after the race. Man a booth. Be an Official. Try things rather than all the excuses of why nothing would work!

Oh well, nothing is going to change in this sports. Folks just do not get it.

The folks who make the most in society get it from their brain, not brawn.

.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [DJRed] [ In reply to ]
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DJRed wrote:
Re-read each of your 7 bullets and after each ask yourself, "How does this benefit WTC?"

Last I checked WTC doesn't have a problem with its brand. After all, they are so entrenched in the culture they can sell us "Home Decor".

The sooner people come to terms with the fact that triathlon is not about the pros, it's about the age groupers, the sooner these people will live happier lives.

I'd encourage anyone who disagrees with this last statement to come to the MOP/BOP where we live and talk to us or race in our world. At the swim start, we are not talking about the pros, we are encouraging each other that we can handle to choppy water. On the bike, we are not wondering how many watts Macca pushed, we're trying to not ride our bike off the road. On the run, we're not thinking about Rinny's IM marathon split, we're doing the math to decide how fast we have to walk to finish in 17 hours.

The fact is WTC is a gigantic entity that serves a massive triathlete population, of which pros and elite AGers is the smallest part. The rest of us are just a squirrel trying to get our own nut and what the pros do does not matter and will never matter to us. We don't care what races pros attend. We race the one that fits our location and work schedule. We don't care how competitive the field is because we start 10 minutes behind the "race" and will finish hours after.

Again, before you respond, schedule a race and come to the BOP. Ask us a few questions. It won't take long before you understand why WTC operates the way it does.

I understand your perspective; I've been there. And I understand why wtc operates the way it does--because it's focused only on the short term money provided by BOP/MOP racers.

And this is precisely why neither you nor wtc can be trusted to look out for the best interests of the sport. You have an admittedly selfish focus--you don't care about anyone other than yourself and others of your abilities. Likewise, wtc doesn't care about anything other than getting you and the rest of the BOP/MOP to sign up for more races next year.

But if you stick around the sport long enough, you may gain a longer term perspective, and realize that it's in the best interest of the sport to care about more than the BOP/MOP, even though those people are a minority. Or you might realize that the tyranny of the majority (ie: doing things without regard to others, simply because you can) is not a really great way to go through life.




The Age Group Home on Facebook
Twitter jokes
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [BDoughtie] [ In reply to ]
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BDoughtie wrote:
So they want all the athletes to stfu and fall in line? 10-4 WTC!

I wonder if in the small print they are forbidden to have any contact or communication with #TheRealStarky ?

************************
#WeAreTheForge #BlackGunsMatter

"Look, will you guys at leats accept that you are a bunch of dumb asses and just trust me on this one? Please?" BarryP 7/30/2012
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [MarkyV] [ In reply to ]
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It is implied. There stands a policy of retaliation for going against big brothers wishes.
_______________________________________________________
Blog - @MarkyV - Currently Accepting New Athletes : 26 kona qualifiers 2010-'14

But you don't mind making money off of WTC's back. Weaksauce.

/


Gary Mc
Did I mention I did Kona
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [KonaCoffee] [ In reply to ]
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KonaCoffee wrote:
The 16:45 change actually is nothing more than a stupid solution to a non-existent problem which has beome rather typical of WTC under its current management.

But since you asked here you ho:

They've over stayed their welcome by many years. They take resources from our community and expect to be thanked.

They get special priveleges in conducting their for profit business on our state owned pier and state owned ocean. Guess what? That's not allowed! No other organization charging any fee for any reason whatsoever is allowed to use our pier or state beach access to the ocean unless they're boating related businesses with a permit. That includes all the tri camps, all the swim clinics, local triathlon clubs, and other for profit but smaller races -- all of them. Only WTC Gets away with this. It's been enforced against everyone except WTC. Enforce it against them as well. Or ate they just special and entitled like their athletes of late?

They seriously restrict travel over a large swath of our island on race day. In some places for well over 24 hours.

Their customers have become increasingly rude to locals over the last 5 years in particular.. They run red lights on their bycycles, they don't bother to stop at stop signs, they do more than encroach on the traffic lanes -- they flat out ride in large groups well inside traffic lanes. Somebody is s going to get killed and my sympathy is almost certainly going to be with the hapless driver.

And it's not just bikers. Every year I see numerous instances of runners stopping traffic during rush hour so they don't have to stop and wait for the walk sign during their runs. It's beyond ignorance, it intentional. Never ever see that outside of this time of the year.

WTC pays lip service to the safety issues. And it gets worse every year.

And then there's the travesty of how locals can't even race in the only long course triathlon here without going into the lottery. Big Island residents used to at least be able to compete for our slots. That was taken away as well. Now we get to put our names in a hat instead.

And every year the locals have to put up with way too many of the 1800+ athletes telling us how we ought to do things in Hawaii. And almost none of them have the slightest respect for the host culture.

Then there's the way you could say WTC treated a nice little 70.3 race out here by not just eliminating any pro purse for a June race but eliminating all 70.3 Championship points for the pros.

WTC behaves as if this is their company town. It's not, it's ours. The people that live here own it. I used to say that the town was split in 3s regarding this race. 1/3 wanted it in town, 1/3 wanted it to leave and 1/3 doesn't care. Only that last third hasn't changed. I know few people, including triathletes, who want it to stay now. Most now would send Itonman packing given the chance.


That's the short list.

Great points, especially how racers have no respect for the rules of the road and respect for others. I saw the same thing by way too many when the 70.3 WC was in Henderson/Vegas

************************
#WeAreTheForge #BlackGunsMatter

"Look, will you guys at leats accept that you are a bunch of dumb asses and just trust me on this one? Please?" BarryP 7/30/2012
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [AlwaysCurious] [ In reply to ]
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AlwaysCurious wrote:
DJRed wrote:

Re-read each of your 7 bullets and after each ask yourself, "How does this benefit WTC?"

Last I checked WTC doesn't have a problem with its brand. After all, they are so entrenched in the culture they can sell us "Home Decor".

The sooner people come to terms with the fact that triathlon is not about the pros, it's about the age groupers, the sooner these people will live happier lives.

I'd encourage anyone who disagrees with this last statement to come to the MOP/BOP where we live and talk to us or race in our world. At the swim start, we are not talking about the pros, we are encouraging each other that we can handle to choppy water. On the bike, we are not wondering how many watts Macca pushed, we're trying to not ride our bike off the road. On the run, we're not thinking about Rinny's IM marathon split, we're doing the math to decide how fast we have to walk to finish in 17 hours.

The fact is WTC is a gigantic entity that serves a massive triathlete population, of which pros and elite AGers is the smallest part. The rest of us are just a squirrel trying to get our own nut and what the pros do does not matter and will never matter to us. We don't care what races pros attend. We race the one that fits our location and work schedule. We don't care how competitive the field is because we start 10 minutes behind the "race" and will finish hours after.

Again, before you respond, schedule a race and come to the BOP. Ask us a few questions. It won't take long before you understand why WTC operates the way it does.


I understand your perspective; I've been there. And I understand why wtc operates the way it does--because it's focused only on the short term money provided by BOP/MOP racers.

And this is precisely why neither you nor wtc can be trusted to look out for the best interests of the sport. You have an admittedly selfish focus--you don't care about anyone other than yourself and others of your abilities. Likewise, wtc doesn't care about anything other than getting you and the rest of the BOP/MOP to sign up for more races next year.

But if you stick around the sport long enough, you may gain a longer term perspective, and realize that it's in the best interest of the sport to care about more than the BOP/MOP, even though those people are a minority. Or you might realize that the tyranny of the majority (ie: doing things without regard to others, simply because you can) is not a really great way to go through life.

I just raced IMMD. There were no pros. The race was just fine. My day was great. I have no less than 100 Facebook likes on pictures. I have told my training and raceday stories to no less than 100 people. I spent almost $300 on IM gear to remember the day and I've yet to order any of my course pictures. I'll continue to talk to anyone who will listen about what a great day and accomplishment this was for me and my family. I suspect there are 1500 or so other finishers from IMMD who are in the same boat with the same story.

Explain to me again the selfishness and tyranny of all this? Explain to me again about how my sharing of this amazing experience is not good for the sport?

By the way, I've been asked a lot of questions about the race by friends and family. Everything from "Was I scared" to "Did I pee on the bike" to "Was the water cold". You know what nobody has asked me either after the race or during my months of training: "Which pros were at the race?" Hell, I don't even think people realize there's a winner in IM races.
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [BDoughtie] [ In reply to ]
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BDoughtie wrote:
Mark,

I'm trying to understand how a pro union would work. I guess it's good to say "we as a pro sport feel XYZ", but don't unions work when they actually have a say in things? People always seem to say the pros need to do more together, but I'm trying to figure out how that actually can be of any real world significance. I guess what I'm asking, what backing would an pro union have? I think it can help, but I don't think it can really help all that much, if that makes sense. Seems more of a cute "in name only" stance, so to speak. And maybe that's enough, just curious how affective an pro union is, when the sport is as fractured as it in with race companies.

Andrew wants there to be a group. As much as I would love for the group to be able to grow on its own, the fact that it might be anointed such position by WTC to be the catalyst that gets it to grow is fine by me. Through this group negotiations on best case scenarios governing professional field would transpire.

_____________________________________________________________________
34 kona qualifiers 2006-'18 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
Foras Maps: Race Discovery made easy | Garmin Glycogen Use App | Garmin Fat Use App
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [Furious D] [ In reply to ]
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Furious D wrote:
Ok - but devil's advocate, what have the pros done to foster a better relationship? Serious question. I'm not that wrapped up in pros so I don't know the history. Seems like a couple who do try to have that positive relationship with WTC are being hailed as turning their back on the fellow pros.
Most? Largely nothing. I'm not of the opinion that those ambassadors that work with WTC have altruism at heart. Thus the desire for a more independent collaborative body to work and negotiate on the various topics.

Furious D wrote:
Your own signature promotes that you have qualified 26 people for Kona, so obviously the brand is important to you and to grow your business. So what good comes from a social media rebellion against WTC?
I think it more the heavy handiness and wording. Ala, it's more a symptom of them doing things wrong than really asking for an outpouring of grievances. Challenge and Rev and Lifetime don't have issues with dissent.... so why might WTC need to implement a stated program against it?

_____________________________________________________________________
34 kona qualifiers 2006-'18 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
Foras Maps: Race Discovery made easy | Garmin Glycogen Use App | Garmin Fat Use App
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [CaptainJeff] [ In reply to ]
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CaptainJeff wrote:

No.
"Competitive sport" does not equal "can make a living doing this."

then explain to me how some poor ass jamaican is going to be able to compete against rich white boy in the 100m in the olympics if no money is involved.

ETA: now the title will be.... "fastest dude in the world that can afford free time to train" Which is really bull shit. The human race loves their champions and especially when they know that the very best are the ones winning.

_____________________________________________________________________
34 kona qualifiers 2006-'18 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
Foras Maps: Race Discovery made easy | Garmin Glycogen Use App | Garmin Fat Use App
Last edited by: MarkyV: Sep 26, 14 13:29
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [Gary Mc] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, because the world is simply black and white. /pink


When was the last time you saw Challenge or Rev or Lifetime institute draconian measures? I don't think I'm asking for much here. Transparency is kind of a nice thing ya know.

_____________________________________________________________________
34 kona qualifiers 2006-'18 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
Foras Maps: Race Discovery made easy | Garmin Glycogen Use App | Garmin Fat Use App
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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> I know a lot of the pros just feel that somehow by just showing up to a race they have done their part. Sorry, does nothing for me.

I'm the opposite. I care about the performance and almost nothing else. I don't care what equipment they use what charity they support or their marketing blather. Marginal fluff. Sorry, does nothing for me.
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [KonaCoffee] [ In reply to ]
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KonaCoffee wrote:
The 16:45 change actually is nothing more than a stupid solution to a non-existent problem which has beome rather typical of WTC under its current management.


But since you asked here you ho:

They've over stayed their welcome by many years. They take resources from our community and expect to be thanked.

They get special priveleges in conducting their for profit business on our state owned pier and state owned ocean. Guess what? That's not allowed! No other organization charging any fee for any reason whatsoever is allowed to use our pier or state beach access to the ocean unless they're boating related businesses with a permit. That includes all the tri camps, all the swim clinics, local triathlon clubs, and other for profit but smaller races -- all of them. Only WTC Gets away with this. It's been enforced against everyone except WTC. Enforce it against them as well. Or ate they just special and entitled like their athletes of late?

They seriously restrict travel over a large swath of our island on race day. In some places for well over 24 hours.

Their customers have become increasingly rude to locals over the last 5 years in particular.. They run red lights on their bycycles, they don't bother to stop at stop signs, they do more than encroach on the traffic lanes -- they flat out ride in large groups well inside traffic lanes. Somebody is s going to get killed and my sympathy is almost certainly going to be with the hapless driver.

And it's not just bikers. Every year I see numerous instances of runners stopping traffic during rush hour so they don't have to stop and wait for the walk sign during their runs. It's beyond ignorance, it intentional. Never ever see that outside of this time of the year.

WTC pays lip service to the safety issues. And it gets worse every year.

And then there's the travesty of how locals can't even race in the only long course triathlon here without going into the lottery. Big Island residents used to at least be able to compete for our slots. That was taken away as well. Now we get to put our names in a hat instead.

And every year the locals have to put up with way too many of the 1800+ athletes telling us how we ought to do things in Hawaii. And almost none of them have the slightest respect for the host culture.

Then there's the way you could say WTC treated a nice little 70.3 race out here by not just eliminating any pro purse for a June race but eliminating all 70.3 Championship points for the pros.

WTC behaves as if this is their company town. It's not, it's ours. The people that live here own it. I used to say that the town was split in 3s regarding this race. 1/3 wanted it in town, 1/3 wanted it to leave and 1/3 doesn't care. Only that last third hasn't changed. I know few people, including triathletes, who want it to stay now. Most now would send Itonman packing given the chance.


That's the short list.

I was in Oahu this past Christmas break a few days before Obama regime arrived. Talking with some locals, they despised this, for some of the reasons you mentioned. Oahu being such a small island and having Obama there causes a huge economic disruption. Logistics on Oahu are already a nightmare, add in a Presidential visit and it turns the island into gridlock. The bar we were at lays off a few people while Obama is in town and pays for a hotel for others. Just so they can get to work.

I can't imagine how bad Kona gets with 1800 type-a personalities running around in such a small island. I can definitely understand why some would be happy to see it go.

_________________________________
The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [DJRed] [ In reply to ]
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DJRed wrote:

I just raced IMMD. There were no pros. The race was just fine. My day was great. I have no less than 100 Facebook likes on pictures. I have told my training and raceday stories to no less than 100 people. I spent almost $300 on IM gear to remember the day and I've yet to order any of my course pictures. I'll continue to talk to anyone who will listen about what a great day and accomplishment this was for me and my family. I suspect there are 1500 or so other finishers from IMMD who are in the same boat with the same story.

Explain to me again the selfishness and tyranny of all this? Explain to me again about how my sharing of this amazing experience is not good for the sport?

By the way, I've been asked a lot of questions about the race by friends and family. Everything from "Was I scared" to "Did I pee on the bike" to "Was the water cold". You know what nobody has asked me either after the race or during my months of training: "Which pros were at the race?" Hell, I don't even think people realize there's a winner in IM races.


It sounds like you had a great day, and you've engaged a lot of friends and family. You've probably even inspired some to start triathlon. That's all good for the sport.

The selfish part is that you don't care about anyone other than beginners and/or MOP racers. The tyrannical part is your open disdain for those who don't fit in your "category" of participants. You not only don't care about pros & FOP amateurs, you seem to wish that they didn't even exist.

And the reason it's tyrannical is that when the mass majority doesn't care about one segment of a population, it has the power to drive that segment out. I've seen it happen in countless running races when a competitive no-frills race becomes popular with beginners. First it's all good, but then the race becomes more and more focused on the beginners (because that's where the money is), and forgets about the minority of people who race competitively (and actually crowds them out). Soon, there's nothing of the race left for the competitive people. Over, and over and over this has happened in the past 15 years.

Look, there's room enough in triathlon for all "categories" of racers. I've welcomed and encouraged more beginners to the sport than you have "likes" on your facebook IM finisher photo. All I ask is that you respect that there needs to be a place for all levels of competitors. You don't have to care about them. But respect the fact that others do care.

For when you come on a forum and repeatedly advocate that triathlon has no need for pros, you are being selfish, exclusionary, and tyrannical. And that pisses me off, and makes me sometimes wonder why I'm so eager to welcome beginners to sport. Because while overall triathlete numbers continue to grow, that vast majority is crowding out some crucial segments of the population.




The Age Group Home on Facebook
Twitter jokes
Last edited by: AlwaysCurious: Sep 26, 14 13:40
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [MarkyV] [ In reply to ]
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The whole issue I have with all of this, is to me WTC doesn't have a lot to stand on. Meaning, I wish they would show me more in how they are going to directly give back in addition to implementing all these scare tactics. Rapp talked about a few of the things with the volunteer services, but to me it's not in WTC's DNA to "give back", especially with the pros. Or maybe I'm just very skeptical with how this will all play out. I like what some of the things they are saying, I kinda shrug at other things, but if it really does help WTC/pros get more exposure, that's going to be a huge benefit for everyone. Am I drinking the IM Kool-Aid just yet? Not yet.

------------------
@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [MarkyV] [ In reply to ]
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MarkyV wrote:
Yes, because the world is simply black and white. /pink


When was the last time you saw Challenge or Rev or Lifetime institute draconian measures? I don't think I'm asking for much here. Transparency is kind of a nice thing ya know.

Please, draconian? Transparency is nice and so is professionalism. All sports have professional codes of conduct. No where did Andrew say there could not be dissent. No where did he say pros can't use social media. What he said was that the internal issues between WTC and the pros should not be hashed out in a public forum. It's reasonable and professional.

/

Gary Mc
Did I mention I did Kona
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [TheGupster] [ In reply to ]
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One of my freshman geography professors and I would go kayaking when I went to App State. One day we were talking about some kayak magazine deciding the cover. It was either going to be one of the spots we used frequently or someone else in the country. I was stoked we were about go go "big time" with the area, and he was hoping like hell it didn't make the cover. He mentioned how popular it would become, etc., so the moral of story, be careful what you wish for. Grass isn't always greener on other side. Lots of +/- with tourism.

------------------
@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [Gary Mc] [ In reply to ]
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Gary Mc wrote:
What he said was that the internal issues between WTC and the pros should not be hashed out in a public forum.

/

What he says and how he acts are two different things. While he espouses such openness does he in fact listen to input???? (only sorta)

_____________________________________________________________________
34 kona qualifiers 2006-'18 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
Foras Maps: Race Discovery made easy | Garmin Glycogen Use App | Garmin Fat Use App
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [vancity] [ In reply to ]
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I love the censorship part. Much like the rest of corporate America, WTC makes communist look like amateurs.
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [AlwaysCurious] [ In reply to ]
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AlwaysCurious wrote:
DJRed wrote:

I just raced IMMD. There were no pros. The race was just fine. My day was great. I have no less than 100 Facebook likes on pictures. I have told my training and raceday stories to no less than 100 people. I spent almost $300 on IM gear to remember the day and I've yet to order any of my course pictures. I'll continue to talk to anyone who will listen about what a great day and accomplishment this was for me and my family. I suspect there are 1500 or so other finishers from IMMD who are in the same boat with the same story.

Explain to me again the selfishness and tyranny of all this? Explain to me again about how my sharing of this amazing experience is not good for the sport?

By the way, I've been asked a lot of questions about the race by friends and family. Everything from "Was I scared" to "Did I pee on the bike" to "Was the water cold". You know what nobody has asked me either after the race or during my months of training: "Which pros were at the race?" Hell, I don't even think people realize there's a winner in IM races.


It sounds like you had a great day, and you've engaged a lot of friends and family. You've probably even inspired some to start triathlon. That's all good for the sport.

The selfish part is that you don't care about anyone other than beginners and/or MOP racers. The tyrannical part is your open disdain for those who don't fit in your "category" of participants. You not only don't care about pros & FOP amateurs, you seem to wish that they didn't even exist.

And the reason it's tyrannical is that when the mass majority doesn't care about one segment of a population, it has the power to drive that segment out. I've seen it happen in countless running races when a competitive no-frills race becomes popular with beginners. First it's all good, but then the race becomes more and more focused on the beginners (because that's where the money is), and forgets about the minority of people who race competitively (and actually crowds them out). Soon, there's nothing of the race left for the competitive people. Over, and over and over this has happened in the past 15 years.

Look, there's room enough in triathlon for all "categories" of racers. I've welcomed and encouraged more beginners to the sport than you have "likes" on your facebook IM finisher photo. All I ask is that you respect that there needs to be a place for all levels of competitors. You don't have to care about them. But respect the fact that others do care.

For when you come on a forum and repeatedly advocate that triathlon has no need for pros, you are being selfish, exclusionary, and tyrannical. And that pisses me off, and makes me sometimes wonder why I'm so eager to welcome beginners to sport. Because while overall triathlete numbers continue to grow, that vast majority is crowding out some crucial segments of the population.

...and the above is exactly where you are wrong.

I do not have disdain for pros and I am not trying to drive them out in any way. What I do have disdain for is people who tell me I need to support the pros becuase they are the lifeblood of the sport. They are not. This is easily proven by realizing that if for the next 10 years only the pros raced IM, IM would fold. Conversely, what would happen if only AGers raced IM for the next 10 years? I know you get that.

Additionally, just becuase they can do it faster than I can doesn't somehow make them more entitled to do it in AMERICA.

So let's agree there's room for all of us. However, the concept that one group needs to be subsidized because they have decided to do this for a living is outrageous. That concept, I have disdain for.
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [craigj532] [ In reply to ]
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Craig, KONA numbers have been exactly the same the last 3 years....the 2 waves have nothing to do with increasing numbers...
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