I did it for 4 months due to Covid19 pool shutdown and it took my 10 days to get back into a routine of 15-20km swimming per week. I added lat pulldowns for some of the "above shoulder" activation. Several weeks later I am not up to my pointy end fitness, but in the context of triathlon, I would have been sub 30 seconds delta on my half IM swim within the first 2 weeks.

While rowing is certainly a great aerobic exercise it's mostly a lower body workout. 70% legs.

The concept 2 skierg is a much better substitute for not being able to swim. That said, if you get to use the rower for no cost it will certainly keep you fit, just not swimming fit.

Sort of. The power you actually generate on the machine likely comes from more than 70% legs. However, your upper body still gets, or certainly can get, a workout that makes them just as tired as your legs if that makes sense.

Getting better at pull ups would be more effective for the swim.

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I've been using the erg since the early 90s. I've never experienced any upper body fatigue even remotely close to what the legs get. But yes, the back and arms to get a workout just nothing like the skierg or swimming.

swim-specific band exercises would be really good for regularly activating the muscles in the right way and keeping the neuro-muscular pathway firing. Also good for some strength conditioning there.

Erging (indoor rowing) while as pointed out is a huge leg workout, it is also a very good lat/back workout. It'll impact your running and biking for sure because your legs will be tired.... It works your lats and back a bit differently than swimming though.

I agree that the xc skiing motion and the pull-up motion are more similar to swimming.

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Then you are probably rowing correctly. But again, if you want to use your upper body more, you can severely fatigue it (lower back, lats, biceps) if you pull harder especially on the back half of the stroke which is what erg-only “rowers” tend to do to keep the wheel spinning and increase their power on the machine in a way that wouldn’t likely translate into additional boat speed.

No one on the erg (at least when going for max power) can increase the power through the use of the upper body. The power peaks at the end of the leg drive and tapers off through the finish of the upper body portion. Look at the force curve. Steep (should be) to its peak then the shallow roll off after the legs are done contributing.

The assumption everyone is making is that swimming is all upper body...but fly and breast stroke have a huge core and leg component...agreed that for triathlon, that's not the case (especially wetsuit swim)... its upper body in free. But I think if you can't swim, you can get on the erg, dial back bike volume, still stay at the same bike fitness and also accrue some conditioning to get back to swim very quickly. Even if we say erg is 20% upper body, there is enough upper body conditioning to get back to tri swim fitness. Given how bad most of us triathletes swim, its literally in the noise. if we were talking sub 5 min 400m swimmers, and you're worrying about going 4;59 vs 5:01, OK that's a different animal. But for more triathletes worrying about going 32 to 40 min in a half IM swim, the 32 min guy will probably end up going 32.40....the 40.00 guy, will probably end up at 40.02!!!

I had a really good experiment in the first 4 months of Covid19 and can say it was really awesome for overall tri fitness taking into account both swim+bike. Its also actually decent for running. In the last 2.5 weeks I have hardly done any time on the erg for the first time this year. I am several days per week 2x per day in the pool now.

I would like to thank all of you who intro'd me to the erg. its been really good. I need to get back on it, but the weather has been too nice to spend indoors. In a month, it will quickly start to suck again anway.

Actually, the entire posterior chain: glutes and back In addition to legs.

You misunderstood me. I am talking about overall average power/speed. Of course, your power will peak with the leg drive. But if you pull harder with your arms, it will keep the wheel spinning and increase your overall average power and thus speed (as opposed to a finishing with little arm pull that is really more of a follow through).

Enough about poor erg technique....as to Dev’s comment, yes, I think the erg can help with more than just upper body.

10-4. Go it.

Rowing is really a much closer crossover to cycling. The primary method of force generation for each is knee extension + hip extension. At low intensity, rowing is maybe 10% arms and 20% back and lats. At higher intensities, I'd say that shifts to like 5% arms and 10% back. The harder you go, the more the focus shifts to the legs (which is a big part of why you need to increase stroke rate to increase power; you need to drive with your legs more often). Most rowers cycle extensively for cross training. Many elite rowers, by pure time, actually ride more than they row. Especially in off season. And because it's easier to do "base" miles riding than rowing because technique focus is so important for rowing.

Rowing is, however, also great cross training for cycling, and it's a great way to keep some upper body tone and also help offset the constant kyphosis of riding; engaging your back in extension is just really good for you, but it's especially good if you're a cyclist.

So if you're looking for something to replace swimming, rowing ain't it. However, I do think rowing is a great training tool for triathletes, and I don't think your swim will suffer as a result of swimming. And, if you're just looking to add something other than running or cycling, rowing is great. So is XC skiing. But both sports are heavily leg dominant with arms really for "finesse" and a bit of extra power (XC is more arm-heavy than rowing is, but also less accessible).

Roch Frey says the best substitute for swimming is paddling. Prone paddling is really good (it's basically swimming on top of a board), but standup paddle, kayak, and canoe all probably have more benefit to swimming than rowing. But if you have access to those sports, you could probably just open water swim instead...

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Someone send me a skierg please...I want one for swim cross training so badly. I enjoy it so much more than the VASA trainer.

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also rule 5

I work FIFO with regular 4 week periods without access to a pool. I use a combination of indoor rowing and stretchy bands to maintain some swim fitness.

I've used the Concept2 two or three times a week for the past 5 or so years and find that my riding and particularly climbing is stronger than when I was doing 100% on the bike.

I don’t disagree with anything you said, I was more just focused on answering OP’s original question of can he use rowing have “some” benefit to develop upper body endurance. My opinion is “yes” and my 1998 lats will certainly agree!

I think what gets lost in the "rowing is all legs statements" when related to swimming, is that it is "more arms" than cycling and running.

So if we have to stop swimming, we can do all cycling and running and have zero pool fitness coming back, or do row-bike-run and in days dive back into the pool and get back to former volumes pretty safely and depending on your speed and background, you can get to your sustained "medium hard" paces quickly too.

I found after 4 months of no swim and row-bike-run, my body posture in water to get to chest down-hips up-legs high was not quite there for a bit. That literally took me a month for my core flexibility to sort itself out to get back to "swimmer body" design

Yeah “, that was sorta my point too. OP didn’t ask “what is the best non-swimming substitute for swimming”? That is a different conversation. OP asked if rowing would help build upper body endurance. To that question, I have a hard time answering anything but “yes.”

I love the erg. I can't say it is a replacement for swimming, or even comment on transferable skills/effects, but recommend it to all who are willing to try. I think it is especially good for building long Z2 sessions if you use proper technique and don't mind going slow.

Since it is free, I say try it. If you do, check out the Beginner's Pete Plan. Pete has a website called Lunch Hour and has free plans for beginners, 2K and 5K distances.

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You guys should charge for this amazing feedback. I’ll give it a go tomorrow and report. Wish me luck!

The hips remain in a flexed position when cycling and rowing, but rowing allows for a greater range of motion as the hips extend somewhat at the end of the stroke.
The hips are even more extended when swimming or running.

I appreciate your comment about XC skiing being mostly lower body. However the C2 SkiErg is almost all upper body. Do you know of any indoor XC ski simulator that works the lower body?

If you want an indoor machine that simulates xc skiing legs only then treadmill and run at 15 percent grade and do bounding. Then get on your ski erg and then on your rowing erg. This should cover it all indoors.

I had been off the rowing machine for a bit, so yesterday I did a run-swim-run workout (run to the pool and back, hard swim in the middle), so decided to get on the Concept2 for a bit after run number 2, which was 2:15 into the day's training so I was already pretty cooked from a hard swim and some run hills. What was interesting was how "easy" it felt to do my interval paces from 6 weeks ago, after a concerted swim block.

Which is counter intuitive to the "all legs" angle, but read on. As I mentioned about the core work I get on the concept 2 transfers nicely to breast stroke and butterfly, and the last month, I have focused a lot on these strokes. But with my upper body having better endurance and just pure strength from a solid swim block of 20-28km per week, I found the connection between my legs and hands was much stronger. So holding at 4W per kilo for 1000m was doable vs "my heart is going to go out of my head".

As you said your lats from the 1990's disagree that its "all legs only". There is a nice crossover to swimming, its just not the best training for swimming and swimming would not be the best training for rowing....but the two can help each other if you're not doing the other one at all.