Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Improving aerodynamics on my old P3
Quote | Reply
I have an old P3 aluminum. I put a center pull Campy Tektro brake on the front (not unlike what Tom A put on his bike a few years ago) I don’t know if that’s an improvement. My race wheels are older Zipp 404s. I have Bontrager Race X-lite Aerowing 19 on the front and 23 on the rear with a wheel cover. Damon Ronald posted some years ago, that that tire combo was faster with narrow aero wheels, like the old Zipps. BTW, the tires only a have few races on them and, YES they have latex tubes. I have a Profile Design between the arms aero bottle.

I’m wondering if the Torhans 30 would enhance the aerodynamic of the front end.

Also, as for tires. I can see that a new low Crr tire like a Conti 4000 might be faster back there in the dirtier air, but would on of the non-aerowing tire with lower Crr, be faster in the front? Tom A? Damon? others?

_________________
Dick

Take everything I say with a grain of salt. I know nothing.
Last edited by: docfuel: Apr 14, 18 7:56
Quote Reply
Re: Improving aerodynamics on my old P3 [docfuel] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In theory, the P3sl has a pretty standard round (although narrower 1") head tube, so it *should* be an improvement to shove the Aero30 in front of it, if you can get it close.

On the front, you want to keep the aero tyre. On the rear, go for the lower crr/comfort.

Front brake... hard to know for sure, probably won't hurt though.

(My old P3sl I ran a pretty similar setup to what you're talking about, can't find a picture at the moment)

The Artist formally known as Leegoocrap
My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
Podium Sports Racing - http://www.podiumsportsmed.com/team/
Quote Reply
Re: Improving aerodynamics on my old P3 [Morelock] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks. I’m trying to keep cost down (since my wife hates my bikes and hates it when I race) so I’m kinda hoping that the Torhans will make up any loss I might have by foregoing the TriRig front brake.

_________________
Dick

Take everything I say with a grain of salt. I know nothing.
Quote Reply
Re: Improving aerodynamics on my old P3 [docfuel] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Big bang for your buck would be some slick aerobars

Brian Stover
Accelerate3 Coaching
Twitter
Insta
Quote Reply
Re: Improving aerodynamics on my old P3 [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I have Zipp Vuka Alumina set up with 25mm risers, Felt grips, Red SRAM brake levers. I’ve been eyeing few other bars. any suggestions?


BTW, if one of you twitchers was going to chime in on fit. I did get fit a few years back. Some skinny dude named Dan did it in his garage in the desert, with a big guy named John teasing him and me the whole time. ;-)

_________________
Dick

Take everything I say with a grain of salt. I know nothing.
Last edited by: docfuel: Apr 14, 18 16:55
Quote Reply
Re: Improving aerodynamics on my old P3 [docfuel] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Not sure what you’re looking for in an arebar setup, but I have a profile aeria (aluminum) that I plan on selling. Has the base bar, all the various risers, bolts for each riser configuration, uncut extensions, and riser bridge (adds stability when using a slew of the risers together). I bought it planning to replace my current setup and just never did. It has one scratch on the right side of the base bar. Other than that it looks practically new.
Quote Reply
Re: Improving aerodynamics on my old P3 [docfuel] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I have an old P3C, and here's what I've done:

1) new aerobar. I got an old Vision allow and cut off the upturns, but a "modern" bar like the tri rig would be better, though pricier.
2) Omega brakes front and back. I had an old Shimano AX brake on the front, but the tri-rig is so much better
3) Drill the top tube and do the cable mod. Cables running into the downtube is so 2005.

All that and find a really good position. Should get you pretty close to a super bike.
Quote Reply
Re: Improving aerodynamics on my old P3 [nickwhite] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I'm considering the top tube cable mod on my P3C, I've even got a busted frame to practice on! I've seen a couple of minor variations, Tririg and Cody Beals I think? What did you follow?
Quote Reply
Re: Improving aerodynamics on my old P3 [nickwhite] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
fyi - don't try the top tube mod on an aluminum P3. It won't work.

The Artist formally known as Leegoocrap
My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
Podium Sports Racing - http://www.podiumsportsmed.com/team/
Quote Reply
Re: Improving aerodynamics on my old P3 [stomponafrog] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I had an older profile, but didn’t like the upturn and it was too short to cut off and still get a grip. Are the upturns cuttable?

_________________
Dick

Take everything I say with a grain of salt. I know nothing.
Quote Reply
Re: Improving aerodynamics on my old P3 [docfuel] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Probably not. This would be a newer bar, however I think the diameter changes after the upturn.. Which would cause issues trying to mount the brakes into the more narrow section of the bar.
Quote Reply
Re: Improving aerodynamics on my old P3 [stomponafrog] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks. I don’t know if it makes any difference, but having the brake levers hanging down in the wind seemed like a negative. Perhaps that is just in my head.

_________________
Dick

Take everything I say with a grain of salt. I know nothing.
Quote Reply
Re: Improving aerodynamics on my old P3 [docfuel] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Don't bother cutting the upturns. pretty sure there is data on ST from VT showing no difference between cutting and leaving them on.

Brian Stover
Accelerate3 Coaching
Twitter
Insta
Quote Reply
Re: Improving aerodynamics on my old P3 [Zenmaster28] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I added bosses to the top tube of my P4. Although nerve-racking, it really isn't a difficult to do following these instructions from tririg. Of course, you wouldn't be adding the bosses, but rather following the part about drilling holes.
Quote Reply
Re: Improving aerodynamics on my old P3 [beston] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
As someone who works with composites, it amazes me how willing people are to drill holes in their bikes.
Quote Reply
Re: Improving aerodynamics on my old P3 [docfuel] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hi Doc,
The old aluminium Cervelos are very a good chassis. It should allow you to get a race fit, and be pretty close to a well setup modern frame set.
I would make sure you route your cables over the stem, and then down into the frame, and keep whatever you can nice and tight with a cable tie above the stem, holding the cables together, and one behind the head tube beneath the top tube, to keep those cables tight. this can depend on frame size. There are probably threads here on this.
a second hand magura brake set is as good as/if not better than a cable centre pull setup. you may have to drill out your cable stops and run the brake cable full length to the rear. If not going Magura, try a segmented cable housing such as nokon or similar.
look for a deep 2nd hand front wheel in the 60+mm range. Wheel cover for rear wheel, and you are set.
For food/drink, a Zipp BTA mount or similar for your main bottle should be good enough. For longer course you could accept the small penalty of a frame bottle. Try and find a -17 degree (flat) stem, remove all spacers and pedestal your extensions upwards to meet your fit requirements. Some stems have routing for front brake cables, to run direct down. Those are great.
if your base bar is not flattened/aero shaped, then consider looking for an alternative & narrow model that suits your zipp clip ons, ideally flat brake extensions and use those felt grips if you have them.
A 22/24mm conti attack/force tyre combination with a latex tube should fit on this frame, (22 at front). On a modern rim such as a hed+ you should still have adequate clearance, but try before you buy.
Put your spares duct taped behind your saddle.
Quote Reply
Re: Improving aerodynamics on my old P3 [docfuel] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I'm sure the Vuka clip tested poorly. The old Vision's are probably still the best budget bar
Quote Reply
Re: Improving aerodynamics on my old P3 [nickwhite] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
What's the current knowledge on a downtube (standard bottle) versus rear bottle on our old P3's? Would a behind the seat bottle make any difference? I've always had a BTA and downtube bottle, then taped my spare under the seat.
Quote Reply
Re: Improving aerodynamics on my old P3 [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
desert dude wrote:
Don't bother cutting the upturns. pretty sure there is data on ST from VT showing no difference between cutting and leaving them on.

Perhaps I should have kept my old Profiile.
Zipp claimed the flattening of the Vuka Alumina was nearly as aero as the carbon version.

_________________
Dick

Take everything I say with a grain of salt. I know nothing.
Quote Reply
Re: Improving aerodynamics on my old P3 [notaero] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks for your ideas.

Here were my thoughts.

I was concerned that having the cables vertical, or nearly so, on the side of the frame was more disruptive that adding the tape airfoil that John Cobb had recommended in the past. I have them in front of the head tube, cable tied, in hopes of having the frame smooth out the air flow on the back side and keeping the cables more horizontal. Perhaps I’m wrong on this. What is the advantage of Nikon over Jagwire (current) or Shimano (old)? I have no experience with those.

Those maguras look interesting. The price is not bad. The cable in front of the head tube should be good.

I believe that my 404s are 60mm, aren’t they? But, they’re old and skinny, so 22 on the front, in theory, aren’t as aero as 19 or 20.
I do have a wheelbuilder disc cover on the rear.

I’d love a 36-38cm basebar. Someone makes a 39. I can’t remember who. My Zipp is 42, if I recall.

I used to use a tiny bag with tubes and CO2 under the saddle nose. I currently have an aero, bag/single bottle holder behind my saddle and a Dark Speed Works bento in front. Isn’t the duck tape a mess?

_________________
Dick

Take everything I say with a grain of salt. I know nothing.
Quote Reply
Re: Improving aerodynamics on my old P3 [beston] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
beston wrote:
I added bosses to the top tube of my P4. Although nerve-racking, it really isn't a difficult to do following these instructions from tririg. Of course, you wouldn't be adding the bosses, but rather following the part about drilling holes.

drilling an old aluminum frame worries me.

If it’s a 58 lets talk.

_________________
Dick

Take everything I say with a grain of salt. I know nothing.
Quote Reply
Re: Improving aerodynamics on my old P3 [notaero] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I have the stem pretty flat and 25mm risers. That’s about as low as I could go with my old body and neck.

_________________
Dick

Take everything I say with a grain of salt. I know nothing.
Quote Reply
Re: Improving aerodynamics on my old P3 [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Of course, what I really need is to get some more free time to train, like I had 10 years ago. (Perhaps even a trip to Tucson.).

_________________
Dick

Take everything I say with a grain of salt. I know nothing.
Quote Reply
Re: Improving aerodynamics on my old P3 [docfuel] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Have you done any aero testing? It’s free if you don’t count the time :)

Making aero easier at Red is Faster
Quote Reply
Re: Improving aerodynamics on my old P3 [SkippyKitten] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I haven’t. Time is limited, but I recently got a Powertap C1, so perhaps this is the time.

_________________
Dick

Take everything I say with a grain of salt. I know nothing.
Quote Reply

Prev Next