I think we may have found Starky's best distance

May 13, 18 12:57

Post #1 of 52 (7623 views)

So watching this guy since he came onto the pro scene, he has struggled with putting a good swim/bike combo together with a decent run. Of course he has won some not so big races, but it looks to me that he has finally figured out the 1/2 distance. On a full ironman his run just fades too much, but now he is running 1;18 to 1;20 in his halfs, and that is after swimming lead group and building good leads on the bike. Check out this race he just did;

https://www.slowtwitch.com/..._Monterrey_6848.html

This one along with the last 1/2 where he hung on for a podium against some of the best are quite telling to me. In the old days when he would get a good place like this, the guys behind were hard to place. These past couple 1/2's all the guys behind are well known and top tier A list pros. And he is pushing those that do beat him to put up outstanding races to do so.

I think if he continues to run low 6 minute pace after his swim/bike combo, he can make a lot of money in the sport. Stay away from ironman where it take a long time to recover, and he is almost always going to blow and get passed and lose any good money. Save it for one big Kona push where just leading for a very long time can be lucrative to some pros and their sponsors.

Re: I think we may have found Starky's best distance [monty] [ In reply to ]

May 13, 18 13:46

Post #2 of 52 (7486 views)

Hmmm not sure I agree. If he wants to compete with the big boys at 70.3 has has to run faster. Ben Kanute put in a great race last year and 1:15 wasn't good enough to win and he was first out of the water with Gomez and put in a very, very good bike. I believe to really win at 70.3 he will have to be able to run 1:12 maybe 1:13. Kienle used to be able to win 70.3 by killing people on the bike (I know that his swim isn't his strong suit) but lets says he comes out in the lead pack and gets 5 minutes and then runs 1:18-1:20..he's probably not going to podium me thinks.

"see the world as it is not as you want it to be"

Re: I think we may have found Starky's best distance [TizzleDK] [ In reply to ]

May 13, 18 13:54

Post #3 of 52 (7453 views)

I agree. It's going to take 1:10 to win the big 70.3 races. Starky gets, let's say, net two minutes on swim and bike against the very best guys, and he's going to be run down every single time.

***

Re: I think we may have found Starky's best distance [TizzleDK] [ In reply to ]

May 13, 18 13:58

Post #4 of 52 (7430 views)

I think you misunderstood my post. I'm not saying I think Starky is going the be the worlds best at 70.3, I dont think anyone expects him to be. But as a racing pro who makes his living at this, I believe he has found the distance where he gets the most bang for his buck so to speak.

No there are a lot of guys he is just not going to beat, but as I pointed out, in his past two races he beat some very good pros that are usually regarded as "better" than him. He used to run 1;26+'s and lose out on a lot of podiums, but now with his 1;18+'s he is able to hold onto some good money spots..

Re: I think we may have found Starky's best distance [monty] [ In reply to ]

May 13, 18 14:00

Post #5 of 52 (7425 views)

monty wrote:

So watching this guy since he came onto the pro scene, he has struggled with putting a good swim/bike combo together with a decent run. Of course he has won some not so big races, but it looks to me that he has finally figured out the 1/2 distance. On a full ironman his run just fades too much, but now he is running 1;18 to 1;20 in his halfs, and that is after swimming lead group and building good leads on the bike.

What do you mean he is now running 1:18-1:20... Starky has been racing halfs for a long time and 1:18 and faster. This has always been the strategy. Drill the bike, run strong and hope for the best. But I agree, just stick to the 70.3. So much more doable. I hope he does every 70.3 left in NA this season.

1:18:08 Ironman Steelhead 2017
1:17:51 Ironman Racine 2017
1:16:24 Ironman Austin 2015
1:18:13 Ironman Racine 2014
1:18:40 Ironman Muncie 2013
1:17:27 Ironman Eagleman 2014
1:17:46 Ironman Muncie 2013
1:17:29 Ironman Mallorca 2013

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Re: I think we may have found Starky's best distance [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]

May 13, 18 14:04

Post #6 of 52 (7405 views)

I guess my post was more about that he is now beating better guys, run times can be funny course to course. Not that he didn't beat some of those guys before on occasion, but the list of great guys underneath him lately seems to be of a higher caliber, and much deeper...

Re: I think we may have found Starky's best distance [monty] [ In reply to ]

May 13, 18 14:10

Post #7 of 52 (7392 views)

OK fair enough......but 1:18 is going to be hard in some B races (for lack of a better term) but I do agree with your premise that he should stick to 70.3. :)

"see the world as it is not as you want it to be"

Re: I think we may have found Starky's best distance [monty] [ In reply to ]

May 13, 18 14:12

Post #8 of 52 (7380 views)

Monty a little context. Run there is 12.5-6mi today.

1:18:08 Ironman Steelhead 2017 13.1
1:17:51 Ironman Racine 2017 13.1
1:16:24 Ironman Austin 2015 12.8
1:18:13 Ironman Racine 2014 13.1
1:18:40 Ironman Muncie 2013 13.
1:17:27 Ironman Eagleman 2014 13.1
1:17:46 Ironman Muncie 2013 13.
1:17:29 Ironman Mallorca 2013 prob short.

Re: I think we may have found Starky's best distance [SA001] [ In reply to ]

May 13, 18 14:17

Post #9 of 52 (7359 views)

Like I said in my post just above, there is more context to a race than just the run time. Who was there, who did you beat, what kind of swim/bike combo did you put out there before that run, etc. A couple of you guys went back and found his best runs, where are all those blow up ones that were sprinkled in there? (-;

Maybe I'm wrong and someone will point to such good deep fields that he used to beat regularly, but it seems to me that really good pros are having more trouble catching him than they used to. He is slowly becoming a guy that you can't let get too far out there anymore, at least at 70.3...

Re: I think we may have found Starky's best distance [M----n] [ In reply to ]

May 13, 18 14:28

Post #10 of 52 (7329 views)

He is registered for Chattanooga next week. After this week, I am not sure he could go 2 weeks in a row. If any one can, he can.

Re: I think we may have found Starky's best distance [monty] [ In reply to ]

May 13, 18 18:41

Post #11 of 52 (6918 views)

monty wrote:

Like I said in my post just above, there is more context to a race than just the run time. Who was there, who did you beat, what kind of swim/bike combo did you put out there before that run, etc. A couple of you guys went back and found his best runs, where are all those blow up ones that were sprinkled in there? (-;

Maybe I'm wrong and someone will point to such good deep fields that he used to beat regularly, but it seems to me that really good pros are having more trouble catching him than they used to. He is slowly becoming a guy that you can't let get too far out there anymore, at least at 70.3...

Serious question. I wonder if anyone catches Starky if he races IM Roth or IM Austria and gets to draft the moto. Look at what Ivan Rana did in Austria (I think it was 2016) when he got to draft the moto vs 2017 when he did not. He was around 15 min faster. Imagine how fast Starky would ride with a moto draft and his lead into T2. Or look at what Tim Don rode at IM Brasil when he drafted the moto. Basically if he goes to an IM, he should go to one where the race directors are notorious for lending the lead biker a gray zone assist to artificially ratchet down the times of those courses. What happens at those races is the leader gets a crazy large buffer at T2, so Starky's buffer just gets even bigger....then it's on during the marathon. For him, pray for a cool day. If he did Roth and it's a cool day, then he's also running on softer trail which helps a bigger guys more.

Re: I think we may have found Starky's best distance [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]

May 13, 18 18:54

Post #12 of 52 (6888 views)

Starky is as hardcore against drafting, doping and wind doping as it gets, I don't see him drafting a motorcycle. He's a purist. Hammer as hard as he can on the bike and run until he blows up. A perfect day is a win, but going as hard as he possibly can is a success as well. I could be wrong, but in my short time around him, he seems like a purist to me.

I think the difference now is that he is finally healthy.

Last edited by: Etexag: May 13, 18 18:57

Re: I think we may have found Starky's best distance [monty] [ In reply to ]

May 13, 18 18:54

Post #13 of 52 (6887 views)

People have this wild misunderstanding that if starky would bike slower, he would run faster. Which is the furthest from the truth. He could bike 2 min slower but only run maybe 30 seconds faster. People give him shit for drilling the bike and burning matches but they fail to see that he is never going to be a super runner at 185 lbs. He knows this and this is exactly why he does what he does. It’s time people start seeing it from his perspective and not a pure runner perspective.

I don’t agree with the stick to 70.3’s attitude. He just won IMLou. Why should he stick to 70.3’s??

Re: I think we may have found Starky's best distance [Etexag] [ In reply to ]

May 13, 18 19:58

Post #14 of 52 (6743 views)

Etexag wrote:

Starky is as hardcore against drafting, doping and wind doping as it gets, I don't see him drafting a motorcycle. He's a purist. Hammer as hard as he can on the bike and run until he blows up. A perfect day is a win, but going as hard as he possibly can is a success as well. I could be wrong, but in my short time around him, he seems like a purist to me.

I think the difference now is that he is finally healthy.

The thing is that when you're in the lead and you're way legal behind the lead moto or car, you don't even realize how much of an assist you are getting. It is really really hard to know if you're getting a pull at 55 kph when you are 30m back from a moto or if your low watts for 55 kph are because of a tailwind or a slight downhill. Aside from Alistair Brownlee who blatnently drafts motos on plain TV view, most pros riding in the lead are trying to ride very legit...but they are are still getting a benefit. Nevertheless, I take your point and Starky is smart enough to know that after a while if his speed was super high and his watts were lower than normal "both days" (say on an out and back) then something would be up that's not explainable by tailwinds or 0.5 to 1 percent downhill grades. He'd probably be yelling at the lead vehicles to drive faster and move up the road and stop tampering with his bike split. But there is a reason why the race organizers at Roth/Austria/Brazil get categorized in this bucket in terms of race leader bike splits.

Re: I think we may have found Starky's best distance [monty] [ In reply to ]

May 13, 18 21:49

Post #15 of 52 (6611 views)

He seems to be showing up at nearly every 70.3 this season and I think it's awesome. If he could get into the 2:50's for a full marathon, he would be super dangerous. Still excited to see him back in Kona this year.

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Re: I think we may have found Starky's best distance [stevej] [ In reply to ]

May 13, 18 23:39

Post #16 of 52 (6524 views)

Lose weight, at 88 kgs make an effort to change body comp to help him have a better chance of winning

Last edited by: stevie g: May 13, 18 23:41

Re: I think we may have found Starky's best distance [SA001] [ In reply to ]

May 14, 18 1:40

Post #17 of 52 (6384 views)

SA001 wrote:

1:17:29 Ironman Mallorca 2013 prob short.

Can't speak for 2013, but the 2018 version was probably 300m long.

Re: I think we may have found Starky's best distance [monty] [ In reply to ]

May 14, 18 6:32

Post #18 of 52 (6103 views)

He's a big dude and that makes heat his biggest problem. 70.3s finish before the afternoon heat. The Ironmans he rocks all the way through the end are usually cooler ones. I think he should do races that have hard bike courses, and just stay away from full Ironmans that have hot runs. Then he's win or podium just about everything.

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Re: I think we may have found Starky's best distance [stevej] [ In reply to ]

May 14, 18 7:02

Post #19 of 52 (6051 views)

I think he's more like 190lbs. Pretty impressive to run 1:18s in a half at that size.

Re: I think we may have found Starky's best distance [ZenTriBrett] [ In reply to ]

May 14, 18 7:27

Post #20 of 52 (5985 views)

I actually think we are going to see the rise of the bigger, stronger, faster athletes in long course come the next 10 years. As the sport becomes more mainstream in the United States you are going to be seeing more traditionally athletic individuals come through the ranks. The swim will have big dudes pushing the pack, the bike is going to become even more of a smash fest, and these beasts will be able to run hard all day.

Re: I think we may have found Starky's best distance [monty] [ In reply to ]

May 14, 18 8:48

Post #21 of 52 (5875 views)

I agree. I think the easiest explanation is this:

Because of his size and skill set his ironman run fade is disproportionately deeper when compared to other professionals. So he is likely to place better overall in 70.3s

Can he win a 140.6 in the right conditions: yes. Would I be ecstatic if my run fade was 4-5 miles of 7:30's to close out a race? yes! But those aren't the questions. The questions is what is best utilization of his skill set when compared to other professionals?

Re: I think we may have found Starky's best distance [LifeTri] [ In reply to ]

May 14, 18 9:10

Post #22 of 52 (5825 views)

LifeTri wrote:

I actually think we are going to see the rise of the bigger, stronger, faster athletes in long course come the next 10 years. As the sport becomes more mainstream in the United States you are going to be seeing more traditionally athletic individuals come through the ranks. The swim will have big dudes pushing the pack, the bike is going to become even more of a smash fest, and these beasts will be able to run hard all day.

I disagree. You can't fool mother nature.

The laws of thermodynamics and physics aren't going to change.

Lighter, leaner athletes will always have an advantage on the run and in their ability to shed heat.

"Good genes are not a requirement, just the obsession to beat ones brains out daily"...the Griz

Re: I think we may have found Starky's best distance [stringcheese] [ In reply to ]

May 14, 18 11:19

Post #23 of 52 (5632 views)

Indeed. Bigger athletes will always suffer more in the heat than smaller ones. It's the law. Deal with it

I think around 70-75kg it's the ideal "size" for IM: you can ride fast with a decent W/kg/cda ratio and it doesn't penalize too much in the run.

So it just won't work for Starky the same way someone with a lighter frame won't ride as fast

Re: I think we may have found Starky's best distance [stringcheese] [ In reply to ]

May 14, 18 11:55

Post #24 of 52 (5567 views)

Lighter, leaner athletes will always have an advantage on the run and in their ability to shed heat. //

Then how do we explain Dave Scott? Other than Mark Allen, he is tied for the 2nd fastest run at kona ever. And he was about the most consistent fast runner there, all the way to 45 years old when he ran a 2;45, I think fastest run on the day..

Not saying it is not a thing, smaller runners producing less heat, just that perhaps there are some factors that are being overlooked? there have been lots of bigger runners doing well in Hawaii too, so Dave was not an outlier.

Re: I think we may have found Starky's best distance [stringcheese] [ In reply to ]

May 14, 18 12:08

Post #25 of 52 (5521 views)

stringcheese wrote:

LifeTri wrote:

I actually think we are going to see the rise of the bigger, stronger, faster athletes in long course come the next 10 years. As the sport becomes more mainstream in the United States you are going to be seeing more traditionally athletic individuals come through the ranks. The swim will have big dudes pushing the pack, the bike is going to become even more of a smash fest, and these beasts will be able to run hard all day.

I disagree. You can't fool mother nature.

The laws of thermodynamics and physics aren't going to change.

Lighter, leaner athletes will always have an advantage on the run and in their ability to shed heat.

Yes, when you run like this you're wasting a lot of energy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIP808xGLk8

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